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"Missing verses"

Discussion in 'Bibliology & Hermeneutics' started by Visiting human, Jun 19, 2021.

  1. Visiting human

    Visiting human Member

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    Hi all. I am new here so if I did this wrong or in the wrong place or has been beaten to death, let me know of the mods will take care of this post. Forgive me if I made a "boo-boo".

    On my journey reading God's Word and in our church studying, the subject of how a word is different in the options of Bible translations comes up. With that, there has been over the years, debate on verses that are in one translation but not others. There are, of course, many blogs online that go to the extremes on this that seem to border fanaticism. Other have pointed out "mss was removed..." or "mss was added..." from the 1611 KJV and/or the original texts. Some parts or verses that are in NASB1995, the "gold standard", are footnoted or not there but are in the KJV. FYI the KJV, for me, is harder for me to understand at times and does get to frustrate me. With all that said, how are we, as Christians, to know the full and true Word of God if there is trouble with the many translations of His Word to English, missing verses and other such issues that add trouble in believers? I would especially believe God would not want us to be confused or lead astray but to know His Truth for us.
    I read this article ( Are Verses Missing from Modern Bible Translations? - Bible Gateway Blog ) and understand what is being said but I still feel uneasy about reading an incomplete translation(s). Why would God allow verses that were not originally "breathed" into His book or allow verses to be missing if they are inspired by Him and He wanted them in His book for all the nations?
     
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  2. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God is able to use any translation to give us what He means by His word.

    But any of us humans can get messed-up, reading any Bible . . . because of our own character making us able to get into problems.

    So, what you need to not trust is confusion, frustration, looking down on others, being haughty, and thinking you are smarter than everyone else.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
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  3. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes, there are Bibles that are different than each other. But to my knowledge, none of them directly deny what God's word says.
     
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  4. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    I never considered NASB a gold standard. Actually, it's not even on favorite Bibles list :).

    The additional verses in KJV are probably not written by the original NT authors. But I wouldn't say they are "uninspired." The point is that, whether they're included or not, they don't add to our understanding or change our theology one way or the other.

    Many years ago, I wanted a modern Bible based on the Textus Receiptus (TR). So, I purchased a copy of the NKJV. I did read through it over the years but it never really attracted me to read large parts or to do in-depth study. Its language is just as wooden as the NASB, IMO.

    If you feel strongly that you want a TR-based Bible, try the MEV. Try it online before buying it. I find it very good and quite readable.
     
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  5. Old Lady

    Old Lady ...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me Supporter

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    I don't have a degree in theology, but I've read the Bible a lot since i left the Mormon Church. They added a lot of requirements for eternal. They claim to be the ONLY true church and claim that men and women if obedient to Mormon rules will become gods and goddesses some day and they will create and rule their own planets and people.

    I struggled with their teachings and finally prayed that whoever the true God is He would guide me.

    Proverbs 3:5-6 NIV
    5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
    and lean not on your own understanding;
    6 in all your ways submit to him,
    and he will make your paths straight.
    (biblehub.com)

    A parallel Bible has several versions side by side (available at biblehub.)

    The Lord is our Shepherd Who guides His sheep.

    Jesus said:
    John 14:26
    But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

    Instead of trying to figure out which version is best according to different humans, trust God to teach you.

    1 Corinthians 2:6-10
    6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written:

    “What no eye has seen,
    what no ear has heard,
    and what no human mind has conceived” —
    the things God has prepared for those who love him—

    10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit...
    1 Corinthians 2 NIV

    I love the KJV myself.
     
  6. Visiting human

    Visiting human Member

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    I understand what you saying. It is true that in my flesh, I can be my worst enemy. And then become legalistic and not hearing God's small voice with my own thinking. Thank you for this insight.

    The wooden language is indeed frustrating! Not in a bad way but just harder for me to read with the flow. With what you and com7fy8 said, guess I am being too "picky" and not just reading and listening to what God is telling me through His Word then? And I am worrying too much?

    One of the reasons is I just have discovered a translation I never heard of. God's Word Translation or GW from Baker Publishing Group. It reads nicely to me. I have the KJV, NKJV, ESV, HCSB, CSB(2017 and 2020 edition), NASB (both 1995 and 2020), AMP (both the classical and new one), NET, MEV and, NIV 1978 physical bibles. Also using Tecarta and Bible app on my devices to see other translations and compare as well as biblegateway site.
    I do get caught up in thinking one translation is incomplete/leaving important words out and miss what God was wanting us to know. I have found out that I am somewhat OCD so that could be the problem as well.
     
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  7. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    Hello @Visiting human, first off, since I see that you are a new member, WELCOME TO CF :wave:

    As for the "missing verses" that you speak of, most of our translations (which includes our better paraphrases, like the NIV), include them in their notes (NIV), or right there as part of the text, but surrounded by [brackets] (NASB).

    The thing is, the words/verses/passages that you are referring to are separated from the rest of the text in our modern translations/paraphrases because they are not in the earliest manuscripts, manuscripts that the KJV translation team (for instance) did not have access to in the early 17th Century (because they had not been discovered yet). So, it appears that these words/verses/passages that you are referring to are "added", not "missing" (the good news is, whether added or missing, they do not add new information to or contradict the rest of the Holy Writ, so you are free to believe whatever you like about them).

    I regularly use the NASB, ESV, KJV, NKJV, NIVUK, and sometimes paraphrases like the NLT, and I am thankful to have all of them :) As for the bracketed words/verses/passages, I'm glad to be reminded that they are not found in the earliest manuscripts, because that is important information for us to know (for instance, you would not want the KJV's Trinitarian statement, made in that translation's 1 John 5:7-8 to be the passage that you rely on when talking about the Trinity with JW's, because they know that it's not part of the original Text of Scripture* .. which The KJV Commentary itself points out plainly for us, see below).

    *1 John 5:6–8. John now gives a description of Jesus Christ as he that came by water and blood. No one knows (now) exactly what John had in mind when he used these two symbols. Tertullian’s guess seems to fit the facts best: the water is a reference to His baptism or inauguration, where the Voice from heaven declared, “This is my beloved Son,” and established that Jesus was the Christ. The blood is a common symbol for His death, where there were also supernatural miracles to cause even the confirmed and cruel Roman centurion to realize that this man (Jesus) was more than a mere man (Mt 27:54); also, by the Resurrection, the Father confirmed Jesus as the Son of God (Rom 1:4). This interpretation also fits the facts concerning the gnostic-type beliefs of Cerinthus who taught that the Christ came upon Jesus at the baptism but left Him before the Cross; John could have been refuting some such heresy. It is interesting that John called attention to the water, and the blood which came from the side of Jesus on the cross (Jn 19:34–35). At any rate, these were important symbols or witnesses to the deity of Christ in John’s mind. He also adds a third witness, the indwelling Spirit. Thus, according to John’s count here, there are three that bear record. The rest of verse 7 and the first nine words of verse 8 are not original, and are not to be considered as a part of the Word of God (refer to the marginal notes in any reference Bible). John’s three witnesses then are: the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one. Agree in one is an idiom which is properly translated simply, agree. Only two or three witnesses were needed to establish the truth of a fact (Deut 19:15; Jn 8:17). ~Hindson, E. E., & Kroll, W. M. (Eds.). (1994). KJV Bible Commentary (p. 2638). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
    So, IMHO anyway, why not pick a translation that you feel comfortable with to use as your go-to translation, and then use the rest of them as you study to help you better understand the Biblical text (whenever you feel it necessary to do so)? Check out this site: www.biblehub.com for instance.

    You may also enjoy this recent and very well-done movie/documentary about the Bible called The God Who Speaks. You can stream it (rent it or buy it) at Amazon, or from here.


    God bless you!

    --David

    1 Thessalonians 5
    23 May the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body
    be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.
    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
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  8. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    Wow, this sounds great. You almost have as many Bibles as I do. And you're already familiar w/ the MEV :). Recently, I've come to appreciate the CSB very much. It is advertised as a mix between ESV & NIV and this is exactly what it succeeds to be.

    I did compare some functional translations in the past: NIV, GNT, GWT, NLT, CEB, NCV. Of these, I still prefer the GNT over the newer versions. These may be suitable for reading the OT, but not the Psalms or NT.
     
  9. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think either Bible can be used to get all that God means by His word.

    But either translation can use wording which less educated people might not know. And I believe Jesus Himself spoke using words that people knew . . . though they might not know what He meant.

    It seems possible that He spoke Aramaic, and certainly Jesus was not putting on airs of being highly educated and aristocratic like the Pharisees who would likely use only their Hebrew writings. But nowadays I think we have various translations which are done by high-level seminary scholars, and this can show through. And the King James translators were connected with the King of England; so they might have been highly educated aristocrats. Yet, I see that even in the King James Bible there are essential things stated in simple enough wording which I think less educated people can understand. And when ones do actually pay attention to what they are reading, they might say, "oh-oh, I'm not doing this." Or, ones might say it can't be done, of all things, or it can't mean that.

    Beware of what you already have been told. See what you get, with God who has better than what ones may have been telling us. Also, I find that any Bible can tell us a lot of good things that are not being said in church and Bible groups.

    I think I have known King James Bible people who would insist the King James Bible is the only translation of God's word. But they could look at what it says, and say "oh it doesn't mean that", or "that's not possible". And ones might not know things are in their King James Bible, while they say things that deny what their own Bible says.

    But God can communicate so we understand, in spite of us and others. And, like I offer, I am betting that any translation can pretty clearly say the things which are basic for Christianity.

    But people can have a way of not saying these things. In another post I can give you examples.
     
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  10. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Simul Justus et Peccator Supporter

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    Hello again @Visiting human, this may be of interest to you: Legacy Standard Bible | Your Translation for a Lifetime | Your Translation for a Lifetime (lsbible.org)

    The Legacy Standard Bible is the other, new version of the NASB (a version that the Lockman Foundation gave the LSB translation team permission to make). You can get it as an app (Apple or Android) right now for free, but until this Sept/Oct, it will only include the NT, Psalms and Proverbs (though other Books of the OT will become available as individual PDF files once they are finished translating them).

    The translation team's purpose was to make it as accurate of a translation as possible, including using God's name, Yahweh (in the OT) instead of translating it as LORD or GOD as has been done previously.

    There is much more to it, of course, so check it out if you are interested and have the time to do so :)

    --David
     
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  11. Visiting human

    Visiting human Member

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    Thank you St Worm2, Andrewn and com7fy8! Your words truly help on my learning and trusting in Christ! Yes, I do have a "problem" with buying physical bibles of as many translations I am curious about and compare with. I love what God says to me from the bible and in prayer and through those who trust in and believe in Christ and that helps ground me to His foundation. Love the church I attend as I get to speak with my pastor and assistant pastor but don't get to get into deep talk as they too are very busy with doing God's will and I don't want to keep them from that. Which is why I am glad to found this site.

    Now I do feel more confidant in reading from the GW translation more with what you all have said and from more of my research on that translation. It truly is wonderfully written (so far reading it as of 2 days ago) and didn't want to make the mistake in reading or using a translation that would be lessening God's Word to my heart and faith. Close to GW is the CSB(2020) and the HCSB(the very last revision) for me as well. Have found some verses and words closer to the meaning in CSB and HCSB than NASB but, like you said, didn't take away God's message. My God bless you and keep you and Christ be with you all!
     
  12. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    One common thing I have heard is that "God does not talk to people." And ones might say He does not talk with us, except through the Bible.

    But they say not a word about what God does do.

    "God works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (in Philippians 2:13)

    According to this, God works even the willing of His children. And it is "for His good pleasure"; so I see from this that God makes sure we do what He knows His word means . . . while we are obeying how He works in us. And I myself have experienced . . . if I am right, of course . . . that God has me doing better and better than what I supposed He means by His word. Because God our Father is so better than we are. So we need Him, at every moment, to do with us all He desires, that His word means to Him.

    But ones deny God's word, by saying He does not personally communicate with His children, and they say He won't guide in all you do. They claim you would be a puppet, if God guided you all the time.

    But here is another thing >

    "Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

    You are not at all a puppet while God is sharing His own love with you! This is Heaven's love in Heaven's Holy Spirit. But ones deny that we are puppets and say not a word about how God shares His own love with every one of us who are His children . . . "in our hearts" > in our hearts is very personal, and deeper than only talking in words with us.

    Plus, we have another basic >

    "And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

    So, our Father calls all of us . . . "in one body" . . . to be personally ruled by His own peace in our "hearts" > again, so very personal . . . in our "hearts". This peace is God's own harmony of almighty power with our Creator's own creativity being shared with us, so we know how to love each and any person. Why would God want you to go on time out from sharing with Him, like this? He does not want to leave us alone to do anything on our own, but all the time there is what He wants, and which He works in our wills to do. Whatever He really wants, He has us doing this the way He pleases.

    So, a basic is that God's word means for us to do His word in sharing with Him, submitting to how He rules us in His peace to do what He means.

    And here is a basic which people do not know or they ignore and deny this >

    "the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (in Philippians 4:6-7)

    It is basic that God is almighty; so the power of this "peace of God" must be almighty . . . therefore easily able to guard us in our minds and our hearts. And God's word commands us to pray in His way - - - Philippians 4:4-7 - - - so His peace is taking care of our hearts and minds. And this works . . . succeeds . . . "through Christ Jesus." < Jesus is our way to this. But there are Bible claiming, Jesus naming people who can even deny that God is the One to give us a sound mind, of all things. And they try many things that do not work; if you do what does not work, this is why what you are doing does not work.

    And yet I would say these and other basic essential things are given in pretty simple language in different Bibles. And they are clear enough in the earlier King James translation.

    But in our reading we can be distracted with how to use verses to argue our points of view, or maybe I can be so intent on finding deep things so I can show off my Bible knowledge.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
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  13. Visiting human

    Visiting human Member

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    I do love when a translation uses God's name as well as His name with "proper" capitalization. It is why I am quite partial to the HCSB. But I know that is not as important as the message and mainly for study. ;)
    Thank you for that link and I will be following that translation closely. (And probably critically, haha)
     
  14. Visiting human

    Visiting human Member

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    AMEN! Thank you so very much for this! You reminded me how awesome our God is! Yes, we do worry about things we shouldn't because Christ is our Wonderful Counselor and God keeps us in His hand.
     
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  15. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    another item >

    To my knowledge, most translations are copyrighted. So, if you make a Bible after someone else, you can be limited about how much wording may be the same as in a Bible before your translation work was done.

    And this is why . . . in my opinion . . . we can see wording which might be simple in vocabulary, even, yet it is not the way people talk, to say the least. Because the translators had to avoid using too much of the same wording which was already in other Bibles.

    But be patient and prayerful, trusting God to make you clear and successful in living His word the way love does His message.

    Every scripture can be used by God to help us to love the way He wants, in sharing with Him.

    And it is fine to become able to understand how various people communicate, so we can love the uneducated people and communicate with them, plus love the high-level educated aristocrats. Jesus talked personally with everyone, because Jesus loves all people.

    By the way, Jesus is "the truth", right? > and here is a list with how various Bibles say this >

    John 14:6 - Bible Gateway list of how translations state this

    Just about all the listed translations say Jesus is "the truth".

    So, the real truth is not only correct information about God's word, but Jesus Himself is "the truth". So, be blessed to discover all God means by this :) My personal explanation is Jesus means He is the living meaning of God's word . . . all the true reality of how to be and to love while so pleasing God. And in us, Jesus shares this with us, as we grow in Christ.
     
  16. honestal

    honestal New Member Supporter

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    Hi Visiting human, nice to meet you.

    I'm a big believer in using multiple translations. My favorite is the New Living (especially the 1996 edition). Then the NIV, the King James, and the NIrV. (The NIrV is a simplified NIV with a sixth-grade reading level.)

    The NLT and NIrV are not strict word-for-word translations (more thought-for thought translations).

    I believe the most important factors are:

    "Ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." {Jeremiah 29:13}

    "Anyone who chooses to do what God wants him to do will find out whether my teaching comes from God or from me." {John 7:17 NIrV}
     
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