Pre-Trib Only Misrepresentation of dispensational doctrine.

[Biblewriter]

I just saw the following in an anti-dispensational screed, which was posted under a tag which does not allow us to answer it.

The OP summarized supposed dispensational doctrine by saying:

Dispensational Theology

1 God has two distinct people – Israel and the Church.
2 The Church age was a parenthesis in God’s dealing with Israel.
3 God’s promises to Israel were postponed till after the rapture.
4 After a Jewish tribulation revival, their ‘dispensation’ will resume.
5 Worship in the millennium includes re-instituted temple sacrifice.
6 The promised temple is an example of what must yet be fulfilled.
7 Modern Israel proves not all promises are fulfilled in the Church.

The same poster went on to say:

Dispensationalists either infer or state that the entire levitical system will be repeated in the Millennium. Moderates think that it will simply serve as a ‘reminder’ of Christ’s death. Extreme dispensationalists infer that it will be the basis of millennium atonement. In either case all disps. accord an elite position to ethnic Israel in the millennium.

He then added:

Many Dispensationalists have no idea that levitical sacrifice is part of their system. That is why I used the word 'infer' because they don't like to come out directly and say it. However, all Premillennialists believe in a future Millennium on earth with a rebuilt in Jerusalem, according to the vision given in Ezekiel 40-48. Here is their problem. The vision in Ezekiel includes animal sacrifices. Because Dispensationalists are committed to a literal, future fulfillment of Ezekiel 40-48, they believe that there will be a return to animal sacrifices during the Millennium.

Some have tried to skirt the issue by arguing that the animal sacrifices are only a memorial. However, Ezekiel 40-48 belies this claim. These are not mere memorial animal sacrifices. In context, Ezekiel calls for a "sin offering". Leviticus describes the sin offering as "making atonement" (Leviticus 4:20, 26, 31, 35, etc.). So, these are animal sacrifices atoning for sin, no matter which way Dispensationalists try to spin it.

Thus, your system teaches (albeit, by inference) that during the future Millennium, there will be a temple in Jerusalem with Levitical priests offering animal sacrifices to atone for sin.

Then a second, more radical poster said, protecting himself by the weasel words "some claim":

Dispensationalists sometimes claim there is more than one form of the Gospel.

Some claim there is a "Gospel of the Circumcision" to the Jews and a "Gospel of the Uncircumcision" to the Gentiles.

This is done in an attempt to keep the Church and Israel separated.

I have never understood how they can get around Paul's warning from the Book of Galatians...

These posts misrepresent dispensational doctrine.

Please do not assume that our opponents are accurately representing what we believe. They are not. And in many cases, what they claim we believe is not even close to what we believe.

 

[Hazrus]

Biblewriter, which of these do you believe in, and which do you not believe in?

 

[Biblewriter]

As to the OP:


Dispensational Theology

1 God has two distinct people – Israel and the Church.

Yes, this is dispensational theology.


2 The Church age was a parenthesis in God’s dealing with Israel.

This is in accordance with the Dispensationalism preached by some. But its error is not so much in essence as in stress. God has indeed set Israel aside for a time, and in this sense, the church age is a parenthesis in His dealings with Israel. But Dispensational doctrine stresses that the church age was always, from the very beginning, central to God's overall plan.

3 God’s promises to Israel were postponed till after the rapture.

This resembles Dispensational doctrine, but it is a misrepresentation. For God's promises were never intended to be fulfilled until after the church age, which was central to the overall plan.

4 After a Jewish tribulation revival, their ‘dispensation’ will resume.

No, this is not what Dispensationalists believe at all. Dispensationalism most certainly does not teach that the old dispensation will ever be revived. Instead, it teaches that a new dispensation will begin when God again takes up Israel.

5 Worship in the millennium includes re-instituted temple sacrifice.

Dispensationalism indeed teaches this, because the scriptures explicitly declare it in plain, simple, language. Anyone who denied this is denying the express statement of scripture.

6 The promised temple is an example of what must yet be fulfilled.

Yes, this is only one of a very large number of explicitly stated prophecies that have not been fulfilled.

7 Modern Israel proves not all promises are fulfilled in the Church.

Sadly, most modern Dispensationalists mistakenly teach this.

 

[Gideon]

4 After a Jewish tribulation revival, their ‘dispensation’ will resume.
No, this is not what Dispensationalists believe at all.

Okay, point #4 needs editing. Next time I will say, "After a Jewish tribulation revival, a new improved 'Jewish dispensation’ will be set up, replacing the 'gospel dispensation.'"

Unfortunately I must now stop responding because I am in a pre-trib sub forum, but I hope my above definition is better.

 

[Job8]

Because Dispensationalists are committed to a literal, future fulfillment of Ezekiel 40-48, they believe that there will be a return to animal sacrifices during the Millennium.

A plain literal reading of the entire prophecy of Ezekiel clearly indicates that this will be the case. It also shows Israel under Christ as a redeemed and restored kingdom (with many other prophecies to back that up). Neither Dispensationalists (myself included) nor anyone else is required to show what God has evidently hidden from our view -- how will the prophecy of Ezekiel actually be fulfilled, given the fact that the New Covenant is also an everlasting covenant, and nothing can detract from the perfect finished work of Christ.

Therefore no Dispensationalist in his right mind will ever suggest that the New Covenant becomes null and void because there are animal sacrifices in a future Israel. We simply don't know exactly how the Lord Jesus Christ will reconcile this with His own finished work, and we are not obligated to explain something which God has not revealed.

 

[Biblewriter]

Okay, point #4 needs editing. Next time I will say, "After a Jewish tribulation revival, a new improved 'Jewish dispensation’ will be set up, replacing the 'gospel dispensation.'"

Unfortunately I must now stop responding because I am in a pre-trib sub forum, but I hope my above definition is better.

This is still incorrect. The prophetic scriptures speak of no Jewish revival during the tribulation period, other than for a very few individuals. And as Dispensationalism is nothing more or less than accepting the prophetic scriptures at face value, Whatever the prophetic scriptures state is the most accurate statement of Dispensationalism.

Again, the prophetic scriptures, and all well taught Dispensationalists, do not teach a revival of Judaism in any form, but of a renewed Divine recognition of Israel as a whole, that is, of both Judah and Ephraim, as opposed to only Judah, as in Judaism.

And the temple worship so clearly described and explicitly stated in Ezekiel and other prophetic scriptures is not a return to the Mosaic law. While the revived worship will involve animal sacrifices, they will not be offered in accordance with the Mosiac law. Both the sacrifices and the priesthood specified in Ezekiel are distinctly different from what was prescribed in the law of Moses.

So the claim that this "implies a return to the Levitical system" is fundamentally incorrect. And by fundamentally incorrect, I mean that the error of this statement does not lie in the details, but in the fundamentals of the doctrine.

But the serious nature of this error is not even in the accusation that Dispensationalists believe it. It is far more serious than that. For the scriptures very plainly state that this will take place. And they state it explicitly, and in plain, clear, language. So to deny that it will actually take place, and in the way that God has said it will take place, is to deny scripture. That is, it makes God out to be a liar. Thus, it is indeed a very serious error.

 

[Truthfrees]

MOD HAT

This thread is for PRE-Trib only.

All other posts have been removed.

 

[Razare]

As to the OP:


Dispensational Theology

1 God has two distinct people – Israel and the Church.

Yes, this is dispensational theology.

I've heard it put that way, but God has 3 groups, the church, Israel, and Gentiles, and I'm sure you probably agree.

Gentiles, being under the covenant of Adam after the fall. It's a pretty sucky covenant, but an animal was skinned.

Genesis 3:21 - Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

They got a prophecy of a Messiah, and skins, and the rest was curses they would endure for the fall.

Then also, they received additional promises from God during Noah's day. I bring it all up because it does matter to get it all correct and tie down the loose ends in scripture, especially symbolism.

Like in Revelation when it says in Revelation 21:1 "there will be no more sea." While the literal sea will likely be gone, it's symbolic of the gentile covenant of the fall and their curses, and representative of "the nations".

When Abraham is told of the stars of the sky and the sand of the sea... sea there implies also the nations, or gentiles. Israel is as the sand of the sea, which is that redeemed from the nations through the baptism of Moses. And those redeemed to be as the stars of the sky, are Christians.

7 Modern Israel proves not all promises are fulfilled in the Church.

Sadly, most modern Dispensationalists mistakenly teach this.

I believe all the promises to Israel will be fulfilled. If God can revoke a covenant promise, then I wouldn't be a dispensationalist in the first place. Romans 11:29 - Core basis of my dispensationalism and why the covenant to Israel stands.

 

[Biblewriter]

I agree that God recognizes three peoples. But I did not include the gentiles because, although He recognizes them, He does not recognize them as "His" people.

And I FULLY agree that the ancient promises to Israel will be fulfilled in their entirety, EXACTLY as stated in the prophetic scriptures. What I do not agree with is, that the present return of the Jews to their ancient homeland is a fulfillment of the promised return.

The present return is a return of only the Jews. The Jews are the descendants of the ancient southern kingdom after the nation was divided in the days of Rehoboam, son of Solomon. There is not even one prophecy, anywhere in the Bible, about an end time return of the Jews to their ancient homeland. Students of prophecy have always known they would return, because the end time prophetic scenario opens with them in their land. Since they had been cast out in the first century, this necessited a return. But the return itself is never mentioned.

The proised return is not a return of the Jews, but a return of ALL Israel. That is, all twelve tribes. And Isaiah 66 makes it very clear that this will occur AFTER Messiah returns, not BEFORE.