Mis-quoting John3:16

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Based on the Following:

1)John 3:16 Jesus is talking to Nicodemus.

2) Jesus had just explained to Nicodemus that he had to be born of water and the Spirit otherwise he cannot see or enter into the Kingdom of God

Is it mis-quoting this scripture by advising people that all they had to do is believe in Jesus being the Son of God and that will save them?

I personally think it it the most misused scripture in the bible - and I say that the best way to interpolate this scripture if using it when ascibing this to anyone who is not named Nicodemus is this way:

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotton Son - that whosoever believes what I just told Nicodemus regarding his question to me and applies this will not perish but have everlasting life.

What do you think?
 

Ben johnson

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It is belief that saves us. But not just any kind of belief. Mere "head-knowledge" doesn't cut it. Jms2:19

Jesus said some very specific things:

"NOt everyone who says to Me, 'Lord! Lord!' will inherit the kingdom of God, but he who does the will of My Father!" Mtt7:21

"Truly I say to you, unless you become (humbled) as children, you will not enter the kingdom of Heaven!" Mtt18:3

"I tell you, unless you repent, YOU WILL PERISH!" Lk13:3

Which of these things Jesus said are required for salvation? ALL OF THEM!!!!! But---they are all based on Jn3:3, "Truly I say to you, unless one is born again (from above), HE CANNOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD!"

"Born Again", is "JESUS-IN-YOU". The believer surrenders his (her) will to Jesus, and accepts His mastery. "I have been crucified with Christ, it is no longer I who live, but He who lives in me!" Gal2:20 Thus, the Matt7:21 verse is realized through Gal2:20, and Php 2:12-13 (and Eph2:10!)---because it is JESUS in our hearts, doing HIS deeds THROUGH us!

It is indeed "belief" that saves us; but it is qualified belief.

Salvation is "fellowship with/in/through Jesus". 1Jn1 Not really a "belief", not a "dogma", certainly not a "doctrine" or "lifestyle". Not mere "relationship" either. Either Jesus AND the Holy Spirit is in your heart, so you cannot AVOID doing the good works ("You will know them by their fruit!" Mtt7), or you are not saved...

Clear enough???

:D
 
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Andrew

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Salvation happens "differently" to different people. We shld not be dogmatic about it. There's no one right way to get saved.

eg: some are saved when they come up during the altar call and sincerely pray the sinner's prayer. others may be saved on their deathbed when the use their last breath to call on the name of Jesus ("Those who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved"). ie u may not have the time to explain to a dying person in an emergency what "born of water and spirit" means!

God is fair and full of grace.
 
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Nicodemus was a Pharisee and a religious leader that had rejected the water baptism of john and there fore was in no position to receive the new wine, which was the spirit baptism.

Jesus was telling nicodemas that unless he accepted John s baptism of water and Jesus baptism of spirit that he could not be saved.

I know most wont believe this but if you look at the first 5 chapters of the book of john you will see that it was all about Jesus AND john.

I have no doubt that he was saying this to nicodemas as a leader of the people.

I now that many say that baptism don’t save you but it is the mark that all of the sons of god are marked with.

We are all marked with baptism aren’t we, or we should be.

Maybe that is an important mark that does relate to salvation because this is for shore what Jesus was on about.

To me anyway.
 
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Blackhawk

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"Salvation happens "differently" to different people. We shld not be dogmatic about it. There's no one right way to get saved."

You mean that we have different ways in which we physically announce our salvation right? i mean like some do it at an alter call and some just say the sinner's prayer with someone. others do it on their death bed and still other just pick up the bible and read it and pray by themselves.

You are not saying that one can be saved while believing in other religions or other gods or that we do not have to believe in Jesus to be saved or anything else like that right?

Blackhaw6

** I do not think that you do think the latter but I can just see some misunderstanding **
 
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Nick_Loves_Abba

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"Nt everyone who says to Me, 'Lord! Lord!' will inherit the kingdom of God, but he who does the will of My Father!" Mtt7:21

This is also mis-quoted. This verse is reffering to tho people who are fake Christians. You know them, they are everywhere. In Our Church, our Schools, etc... Those who say they love Jesus, and don't. This isn't, however reffering to Christians who love Jesus. I think it's safe to say, anyone who calls on Jesus to save them, will be saved. It says so all over scripture.

Being born of water means being bron out of the womb, I think.

Also, I don't know how it's possible to misquote John3:16, even when it's not taken out of context. Let's look:

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Here, John 3:17 and 3:18 just restate what John 3:16 was saying. Giving it more empahsis.

Pro 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

Once again, those that look for Jesus, will find him.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Believeing saves us from hell. Works, is a manifestation of being saved.

oh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Again, believeing is the key word here.

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Here we see the will of God. What is the will? Every one who truly believeth, shall have everlasting life. Every one that seeth and believeth - The Jews saw, and yet believed not. And I will raise him up - As this is the will of him that sent me, I will perform it effectually.

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Again, the word 'believeth'.

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

This scripture tells me that, baptism in water is the old way. John the Baptist is saying, I only baptise in water, but he that comes (Jesus) will baptise you with the Holy Ghost! And Fire!

Connect Matthew 3:11 with:

*** 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Peace out.
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by Nick_Loves_Abba
Believeing saves us from hell. Works, is a manifestation of being saved.

Connect Matthew 3:11 with:

*** 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Peace out.

Let me preface by saying I don't disagree with you.

With that out of the way, do you not see the act of "believing" as something we do, thus a work?

In light of the scripture you quote (3:5, not sure what book), can you not see that our works of righteousness, i.e. believing, aren't the basis for which God saves us, but rather according to the mercy of His good pleasure?

Thanks for your insight.

God bless.
 
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Hoonbaba

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Originally posted by lambslove
In the Greek, that word "water" indicates amnionic fluid, so you are correct Nick.

Sorry for just butting in, but I have to disagree with that. The greek word for water (as in John 3:5) is "Hudor" (Strong's #5204). You can look it up here. It looks to me that every reference clearly refers to water.

I know many won't agree with me but I believe baptism is essential with salvation.

John 3:5 says one must be born of water and spirit.

It's true that John's baptism was a baptism of repentance (Acts 19:4), but isn't it interesting how some disciples were baptized even after receiving John's baptism? (Acts 19:5)

Also, what's interesting is that the disciples of Jesus were clearly ordered in the Great Commission to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matt 28:19).

And more importantly apostle Paul even says that we identify with Christ's resurrection through his death on the cross. And we identify with Christ's dead through baptism (Rom 6:3-7).

Is that to say that baptism is required? I believe so. But if a believer will come to know Jesus and dies before he gets baptized, will he go to hell? I don't think so. God seems to have exceptions (i.e. the robber who was crucified next to Jesus probably wasn't baptized, neither were all the OT saints) =)

For me personally, I believe that we grace is given for us to be baptized, just as faith was given so we may believe in the Father. Often times, I hear people say that baptism is works. But what's interesting is that in that case, someone can say the same thing about faith. I can easily justify that faith in God is a type of 'works'. Anyway, that's just my thoughts =)

Hopefully this hasn't discouraged anyone. Well, I just thought I'd share that =)

God bless!

-Jason
 
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Andrew

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You are not saying that one can be saved while believing in other religions or other gods or that we do not have to believe in Jesus to be saved or anything else like that right?
---------------------------
No of course not. But my point again is are you going to explain the theology of "born of water and the spirit" to a dying person who is in great pain who's only got 30 secs left or are you going to insist that a bed ridden person go up for the altar call?

Also on the heart level, I believe God is fair, given the amt of faith you have, how do you response to it. An educated person may study thoroughly the Gospel and be "convinced" b4 he receives Christ and is saved. On the other hand, a 99 year old granny may just know "enough" about Jesus and call on his name in her last breath. You cant say that God wont save her cos she did not fully comprehend what the theology of salvation is.

I hope u understand what I'm trying to say. God is fair. and he is the one who saves.
 
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filosofer

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In the Greek, that word "water" indicates amnionic fluid, so you are correct Nick.

Jason, you were right in saying that the above quote is incorrect (is this confusing? ;) ).

Also, note that there is only one preposition with water and spirit - indicating that they are referring to the same thing.
 
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Ben johnson

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This verse (Mtt7:21) is reffering to tho people who are fake Christians.
I really suspect they sincerely think they are Christians. I am guilty of holding to a gospel called, "Lordship Salvation". Specifically, "born again" is defined as "Jesus-IN-YOU". Salvation is, succinctly, FELLOWSHIP WITH/IN/THROUGH Jesus. I believe the Matt7 verse plainly endorses this: "I never KNEW you!"

Last weekend a TV preacher said, "Christianity is like a great train station. All are waiting in the train station, all suppose that they are getting on the train. BUt some HAVE NOT BOUGHT A TICKET!!!"

RE the "baptism" thing, I've done some extensive posting over on LBMB on that exact thread, click here to read. I'm afraid you may hafta be "logged in" to read it. One of the MANY faults of their new design.

John3 uses "Hudor" in the sense of "water-as-the-fundamental-element", IE, "unless you are born OF THE EARTH". Verses 5 and 6 comprise a "repetitive narrative" (an often-used-device, like Matt3:11 & 12). The second verse repeats and explains the first.

"Unless you are born of water" is the same as "that which is born of flesh is flesh", and "AND the Spirit" is the same as "that which is born of Spirit is spirit". There is no way that Jesus "jumped track" and inserted a "water-dipped" verse.

If "water-baptism" was a part of salvation, why is there NOT ONE VERSE that clearly says "unless you are DIPPED you are CONDEMNED"? Why do the major verses on salvation (like Rom10:9, Jn1:12, etc) NOT EVEN MENTION DIPPING?

QUESTION: Can a person be forgiven for their sins and receive the Holy Spirit, at a time different than "WATER-BAPTISM"? Consider Acts 8:16, they had been water-baptized, but had not received the Holy Spirit. AND Acts 10:47, they HAD the Holy Spirit but HAD NOT been water-baptized. Clearly, forgiveness is in Jesus, not in the water. When repentence and acceptance of Christ accompanies water baptism, then so does salvation. But not necessarily...

:)
 
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cougan

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I will divide this into 2 post

The Gospel of John, chapter 3, verse 16, is one of the all-time beloved and well-known verses in the entire Bible. It is frequently called the “golden text” of Scripture.

One might be shocked to learn, therefore, that this great passage is one of the most misunderstood and misrepresented texts of the Word of God. Many sincere people, who dearly cherish John 3:16, have little idea what this marvelous verse actually is teaching.

In a brief study, let us carefully look at the passage in its constituent elements.


For...
In the Greek New Testament, John 3:16 begins with the conjunction gar, which is used to explain a foregoing statement. In this case, the writer has just alluded to an historical situation that occurred in the days of Moses.


“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up” John 3:14 (ASV).
After the Israelites were led from Egyptian bondage into the wilderness of Sinai, many of them began to murmur against Jehovah. Accordingly, the Lord sent fiery serpents among them as a mode of punishment. When the people acknowledged their sin and sought deliverance, God instructed Moses to fashion a serpent out of brass, and set it upon a standard. Any person who “looked” upon the serpent would live (cf. Num. 21:4-9).

It must be observed that the desired cure was not to be realized in simply “believing” that such could occur; rather, in addition to having faith in the Lord, the Israelite who sought healing was required to obediently look upon the image.

The incident of the serpent was, of course, typical of the death of Christ, i.e., it was a symbol or picture. Note the use of the connective, “even so,” in verse 14 (cf. Lk. 11:30).

Jesus Christ, consistent with the divine plan of redemption, must die, and in a manner whereby he would be “lifted up” (cf. Jn. 12:32). This was accomplished by the Lord’s death on the cross (cf. Jn. 8:28).

The object of all of this was that “whosoever believeth may in him (en auto - dative case of location - cf. Eph. 1:4) have eternal life” (v. 15). Eternal life is thus located “in Christ” (cf. 2 Tim. 2:10), and that realm is entered by baptism, which is the culminating act of the conversion process (Rom. 6:4; Gal. 3:27). This background, therefore, leads up to the introduction of John 3:16.


...God so loved...
It is here affirmed that God so loved the world. The term “God” is the designation of the divine nature, and so can be employed of either the Father (Eph. 1:3); of Jesus, the Son (Jn. 1:1); or of the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4). In this verse, obviously “God” is used of the Father, who gave his Son.

How wonderfully the love of God is here portrayed. Unlike the gods of paganism, who were vicious and cruel, and also the cold and indifferent “god” of modern philosophy, the God of the Bible is loving (2 Cor. 13:11; 1 Jn. 4:8, 16).

The term “loved” translates the Greek verb agapao. The noun form agape is not a love which is merely emotional. It is the love of genuine interest, that of determined dedication. It is the love which acts out of concern for others. W. E. Vine observed that agapao, as used of God:


“expresses the deep and constant love and interest of a perfect Being towards entirely unworthy objects, producing and fostering a reverential love in them towards the Giver, and a practical love towards those who are partakers of the same, and a desire to help others to seek the Giver” (Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, III, p. 21).
It is this magnanimous love of God that motivates man to seek his grace. John once wrote: “We love, because he first loved us” (1 Jn. 4:19).

The extent of divine love is underscored by the use of the adverb “so” (houtos), a term marking the degree of intensity. God thus loved; not passively, but actively; to the extent of giving his precious Son, his “fellow” (cf. Zech. 13:7), for human redemption.


...the world...
The Greek word for world is kosmos. In a literal sense, the term denotes the orderly universe created by the intelligent God (Acts 17:24), or, in a more limited sense, the earth (Mk. 16:15). Frequently, though, “world” stands for all people of the earth – this is a figure of speech known as metonymy; in this case, the container is put for the contents, i.e., the world stands for its inhabitants. The passage therefore emphasizes the universal love of God.

The doctrine of predestination, as expressed in the old Westminster Confession of Faith (1643), and still believed by many today, taught that:


“...By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestined unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death” (Art. III).
This doctrine suggested that God, consistent with his own sovereignty, had arbitrarily determined to save some, and damn others. Hence, actually, a person is utterly helpless as to his eternal fate.

The notion is patently false and is a reflection upon the character of Jehovah. Christ affirmed that he came “to give his life a ransom for many” (Mt. 20:28). But “many” is an expression meaning “all” (see 1 Tim. 2:6; cf. Rom. 5:12, 15). Yes, God’s grace appeared “bringing salvation to all men” (***. 2:11). Jesus is the Lamb of God who “takes away the sin of the world” (Jn.1:29; 1 Jn. 2:2). Truly, God is not willing that any should perish (2 Pet. 3:9).

It is important to point out, of course, that only the elect will be saved. But the elect are those who, of their own free will, determine to accept the Lord’s offer of salvation. And so, certain passages, dealing with the death of Christ, are focused especially upon them (cf. “...Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it” (Eph. 5:25). Such passages as this one, however, do not negate the many that affirm the potential salvation for any who will obey (Heb. 5:8-9).

God loves the whole world and wants all to be saved, but he will force no one to yield to his plan!


...that he gave...
Giving is characteristic of God. He has given us life (Acts 17:25), and his gifts of providence are daily evident (Acts 14:17). He is the source of all good gifts (Jas. 1:17), and the greatest was the gift of his Son. Seven centuries before the birth of Jesus, Isaiah announced: “...a child is born...a son is given...” (9:6). Surely we must say with Paul: “Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift” (2 Cor. 9:15).
 
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cougan

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It is quite apparent, however, that even when a gift is made available, for it to be effective, one must be willing to receive it. There must be a concurrence between the will of the giver and the will of the benefactor. Now the tragic fact of the matter is, though God willingly gave his Son, not all have been disposed to receive him. Of some it was said: “...they that were his own received him not...” (Jn. 1:11). Men do have the power to reject gifts!

Further, it is certainly true that an object may be freely given, i.e., not deserved, and yet be conditional. In the days of ancient Israel, Jehovah informed Joshua, “See, I have given into your hand Jericho...” (Josh.6:2). In spite of the fact that Jericho was a gift, the Lord subsequently specified instructions for the taking of the city. An inspired writer later comments: “By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they were compassed about seven days” (Heb.11:30; emp. added).

Similarly, those who would receive Christ, as God’s gracious gift, must submit to the conditions required by the Lord and his apostles (cf. Acts 2:41).


...his only begotten Son...
“Only begotten” renders the Greek monogenes, found nine times in the New Testament (five of these of Christ – Jn. 1:14, 18; 3:16, 18; 1 Jn. 4:9). The term derives from two roots, monos (only, alone) and genos (race, stock).

In the contexts in which it applies to Jesus, it undoubtedly denotes that he is “unique in kind” (F.W. Danker, et al., Greek-English Lexicon, University of Chicago, 2000, p. 658). It is used “to mark out Jesus uniquely above all earthly and heavenly beings” (Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Colin Brown, ed., Zondervan, II, p. 725). “In its significance monogenes relates to the several areas: (1) being or nature (uniquely God’s Son), (2) the revelation of God to man (John 1:18), (3) salvation through the Son (John 3:16; 1 John 4:9)” (Everett F. Harrison, Wycliffe Dictionary of Theology, Hendrickson, 1999, p. 386).


[Note: there is nothing in the term monogenes to indicate that Christ was “the eternal Son of God,” as some have suggested. For a refutation of that notion, see Adam Clarke’s Commentary on Luke 1:35. Before his incarnation, Jesus was the eternal Word (logos) Jn. 1:1, 14.]
The Lord Jesus was declared to be the Son of God by: the prophets (Isa. 9:6); angels (Lk. 1:32); the Father (Mt. 3:17); himself (Mk. 14:62); his disciples (Mt. 16:16); his enemies (Mt. 27:54); and, by the power of his resurrection from the dead (Rom. 1:4).


...that whosoever believeth on him...
Again, the term “whosoever” (literally, “everyone”) reveals the universality of God’s saving plan. The gospel is addressed to “the whole creation” (Mk. 16:15), and, as the final great invitation of the Bible has it, “...he that is athirst, let him come: he that will, let him take the water of life freely” (Rev. 22:17).

The word “believeth” is a present tense participle, literally, therefore, “the keeping on believing ones.” But exactly what is the biblical “belief” of which God approves?

Some have defined the term as simply an acceptation of the historical facts regarding Christ, along with a willingness to trust him as Savior. This is the view of those who advocate the doctrine of salvation by “faith alone.” But the truth is, there is more to faith than a mental disposition.

The verb “believe” in the Greek New Testament is pisteuo. In addition to the acknowledgment of the historical data, and a trusting disposition, the word also includes the meaning, “to comply,” as Liddell & Scott observe in their Greek Lexicon, (Oxford, 1869, p. 1273); and, as they further point out, it is the opposite of apisteo, which means “to disobey...refuse to comply” (p. 175).

Prof. Hermann Cremer noted that “faith” (pistis) both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament “is a bearing towards God and His revelation which recognizes and confides in Him and in it, which not only acknowledges and holds to His word as true, but practically applies and appropriates it” (Biblico-Theological Lexicon of the New Testament, T. & T. Clark, 1962, p. 482; emp. WJ). W. E. Vine declared that faith involves “a personal surrender” to Christ (Expository Dictionary, II, p. 71).

Lexicographer J.H. Thayer noted that belief is “used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i.e. a conviction, full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah – the divinely appointed author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ” (Greek-English Lexicon, T. & T. Clark, 1958, p. 511; emp. added).

Saving faith cannot be divorced from obedience as the following evidence clearly reveals.


Belief and disobedience are set in vivid contrast in the Bible. Note this verse: “He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him” (Jn. 3:36 ASV; ESV emp. added). Similarly, the Israelites of Old Testament that were “disobedient” were condemned “because of unbelief” (see Heb. 3:18,19; 4:3,6).

While John 3:16 promises eternal life to him who believes, Hebrews 5:9 attributes eternal salvation to such as who obey, thus demonstrating that the two are not mutually exclusive, rather, saving faith includes obedience!

The New Testament often uses “faith” as a synecdoche (a figure of speech whereby the part is made to stand for the whole) to denote the sum total of gospel obedience.
For instance, Paul wrote: “Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God...” (Rom. 5:1). That this means more than mere mental faith is proved by Paul’s own conversion. He believed in Jesus’ Lordship while yet on the road to Damascus (Acts 22:10), but he enjoyed no peace for three days subsequent thereto; until he was baptized in water in obedience to the Lord’s command (Acts 22:16; 9:18,19).

Other components in the plan of salvation sometimes figuratively represent the entire process. Repentance is said to result in life (Acts 11:18), but certainly not repentance alone! And baptism saves (1 Pet. 3:21), but not baptism by itself.

Biblical faith, therefore, is the faith that lovingly works (Gal. 5:6) in obeying the Lord’s requirements for implementing the new birth (Jn. 3:3-5). And in the maintenance of the Christian life. The notion that salvation is effected by “faith alone” is strictly a human doctrine.


...should not perish...
Contrary to the assertions of some religious materialists, the Scriptures do not teach that the wicked will ultimately cease to exist. The Greek word, here rendered “perish,” is apollumi, a very strong term meaning “to destroy utterly.”

That apollumi does not suggest annihilation is clear in that this word is employed to describe the miserable condition of the prodigal son, when separated from his loving father. In that state the son was “lost” (Lk. 15:24), but he had not ceased to exist.

As Vine pointed out: “the idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being” (Expository Dictionary, I, p. 302). Prof. Thayer declared, with extreme clarity, that appolumi suggests “to be delivered up to eternal misery” (Greek-English Lexicon, p. 4).

In this connection one should carefully study Matthew 25:46 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9. The abiding separation of the wicked from God will entail an eternal suffering! This passage is an eloquent refutation of both the materialistic theory of the annihilation of the wicked, and the modernistic assertion of universal salvation.


...but have eternal life
Eternal life is here promised to those who pursue the life of obedient trust. But exactly what is eternal life?

Most assuredly It is not mere eternal existence, for the wicked will exist eternally. Eternal life is the exact opposite of everlasting death. The final abode of evil persons is called “the second death” (Rev.2:11; 20:6, 14). Since “death” always connotes the idea of separation, in some form or another (cf. Eph. 2:1), the final death is obviously eternal separation from God (cf. Mt. 7:23; 25:41; 2 Thes. 1:9).

Conversely, eternal life is everlasting communion with God, along with all the wonders that involves. It is a state of glory (Rom. 2:10; 2 Cor. 4:17), rest (Heb. 4:11), and happiness (Mt. 25:21).


Conclusion
John 3:16 is truly a marvelous text. But it is deeper and much richer than many have supposed. May we be wise enough to study its truths in the light of the Bible as a whole. It contains history, responsibility, warning, and promise.
 
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Andrew

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Eternal life is here promised to those who pursue the life of obedient trust.
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Sounds like you gotta work for eternal life once you are saved.
But the Bible says eternal life is given to those who believe in Jesus.

Joh 6:54* Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

And the Son is the Eternal Life....

1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1Jo 5:20* And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
 
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Sorry for just butting in, but I have to disagree with that. The Greek word for water (as in John 3:5) is "Tudor" (String’s #5204). You can look it up here. It looks to me that every reference clearly refers to water.

I agree totally, it amazes me the amount of people that claim the Greek says something that it does not.

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

So, do you then believe ,that in the conversation between Jesus and nicodemas, that Jesus told him to be baptised in water (johns baptism) and spirit (Jesus baptism.) To be born again.

We need to also remember that Jesus wasn’t just talking to anybody, this was a Pharisee that rejected john as a prophet of god by not receiving johns baptism so he would be prepared for the coming of Jesus and the spirit.

We can’t leave John the Baptist out of this because the first 5 chapters of John are all about the joint mission of Jesus and john.

Jesus was talking about the both of them until john faded and Jesus multiplied, in my opinion.
 
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Andrew

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quote:
Sorry for just butting in, but I have to disagree with that. The Greek word for water (as in John 3:5) is "Tudor" (String’s #5204). You can look it up here. It looks to me that every reference clearly refers to water.

I agree totally, it amazes me the amount of people that claim the Greek says something that it does not.
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Eph 5:26 -- That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

The same "water" here is used. So how do you explain that? r u saying that it is the H20 in water baptism or the act of water baptism that brings about the next verse:

27 that he might present it to himself the assembly in glory, not having spot or wrinkle, or any of such things, but that it may be holy and unblemished;

i serously doubt it.
 
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