LDS Milk Before Meat...

[Rescued One]

The spirit that has been leading Mormonism:

The oath of vengeance was an addition made to the Nauvoo endowment under the direction of Brigham Young by 1845 in the Nauvoo Temple, soon after the 1844 death of Joseph Smith.[1] Participants agreed to be bound by the following oath:

"You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will pray and never cease to pray to Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets upon this nation, and that you will teach the same to your children and to your children's children unto the third and fourth generation."[2]

"The prophets" referred to Joseph and Hyrum Smith, who were killed in 1844 by a mob while in jail in Carthage, Illinois. "This nation" referred to the United States.[3]

The oath entered the endowment at a time when many Mormons hoped for retribution for the deaths of Joseph and Hyrum Smith...

Beginning in 1919, LDS Church president Heber J. Grant appointed a committee charged with revising the endowment ceremony, which was done under the direction of apostle George F. Richards from 1921 to 1929. Richards revised the ceremony to eliminate the oath of vengeance, and the revision was formally implemented in the early 1930s.[12]
Oath of Vengeance

Matthew 5
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

[BigDaddy4]

And should I take YOUR word on that?
Or should I ignore you and go with what the Spirit tells me?

This isn't about MY word. You have to ignore REALITY for many of the lds claims/teachings to be true. That is being blind. And that is why the Bible tells us to test the spirits. Keep asking, keep knocking, keep seeking, and maybe you will see the Truth.

 

[Jane_Doe]

This isn't about MY word. You have to ignore REALITY for many of the lds claims/teachings to be true. That is being blind. And that is why the Bible tells us to test the spirits. Keep asking, keep knocking, keep seeking, and maybe you will see the Truth.

I DO!!!! You just keep plugging your ears to the fact that yes I have done my hw and yes I have hear from the Spirit

And frankly, there's no way I'm going to take your word over the Spirit's. It's nothing personal against you, but that the Spirit trumps man.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I DO!!!! You just keep plugging your ears to the fact that yes I have done my hw and yes I have hear from the Spirit

And frankly, there's no way I'm going to take your word over the Spirit's. It's nothing personal against you, but that the Spirit trumps man.

No ear plugging here. I read your words, but your words are in conflict with reality and Truth. The lds church makes a lot of baseless assertions like an apostasy with no factual evidence to back it up. In addition, such an apostasy would make Jesus a liar. Meanwhile, several posters on here belong to churches that have evidence tracing back to one or more of the original apostles. Should that historical evidence just be hand waved over and replaced by the lds baseless assertions?

So, for the lds claim of an apostasy to be true, Jesus had to lie (but yet your "spirit" says it's true!) and historical evidence needs to be ignored.

I'm not the one plugging my ears here.

 

[Jane_Doe]

No ear plugging here. I read your words, but your words are in conflict with reality and Truth.

In other words, you think "I know better than Jane so I'm write off all of Jane's experiences with the Spirit as being automatically bunk. I'm not going to listen or respect, or actually respond to anything she says, just disregard over and over again."

 

[Rescued One]

Certain people have been repeatedly rude to me, and I, therefore, have them on ignore. I assume there is a reason for the ignore option.

 

[Rescued One]

and then there was discussion 2,3,4,5 .....

Where are you finding this, I tried to find it on line and it's not there.

The Holy Ghost is most certainly talked of in Sacrament meetings.

You can go here to see the Churches manual for the basic Gospel Principles class. Starts at the beginning and allows for a discussion wherever the class wants to take it.

First question;
What are some things that testify to you that there is a God?

www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles?lang=eng

I never claimed that the Holy Ghost isn't talked about. I'm referring to the Plan of Salvation and the Celestial Kingdom.


"He Is Our Redeemer and Savior
He is the Redeemer and Savior.
Through his sacrifice, we can return and live with him and our Father."

Why can't worthy Mormons also live with the Holy Spirit?

 

[BigDaddy4]

In other words, you think "I know better than Jane so I'm write off all of Jane's experiences with the Spirit as being automatically bunk. I'm not going to listen or respect, or actually respond to anything she says, just disregard over and over again."

Your words, not mine. If you want to ignore historical facts, evidence, and reality, in favor of your "spiritual experiences", that's up to you. I'm just pointing out that what the lds church teaches is not consistent with that which you ignore.

 

[Rescued One]

As Robert Millet said when speaking to the Mission Prep Club at BYU:

• We aren't obligated to answer everybody's questions.
• You already know more about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than anybody who will attack you.
• Answer the right question.
• We never provide meat when milk will do. (He repeats this a couple of times.)

Video:
The Mormon Curtain - ROBERT L. MILLET

 

[Ironhold]

Answering the right question - Make sure you understand what the person is asking, and then once you do find the question that's core to whatever it is they want to know. That's... pretty basic, actually.

 

[Rescued One]

From time to time, Church leaders provide information to help answer some of our questions. But it is neither practical nor possible for our leaders to answer every question we may have. When we understand how to seek learning by study and by faith, we become more self-reliant, better able to seek divinely inspired answers to our own questions and continue faithful as we resolve concerns. President Boyd K. Packer taught: “Spiritual self-reliance is the sustaining power in the Church. … If we move so quickly to answer all your questions and provide so many ways to solve all of your problems, we may end up weakening you, not strengthening you.”4
Answering Gospel Questions

"Whenever someone asks me an antagonistic question, I never answer that question. Instead I answer the question they should have asked."
- Robert L. Millet to the Mission Prep Club at BYU

What Mr. Millet does is the art of misdirection. Someone asked if Mormons believe that man can become like God.

Mr. Millet says, "It might be a much wiser approach to say, 'Well that's an interesting question; it is asked frequently but let me begin this way: in the spring of 1820...'"

Misdirection happens frequently on these threads.

 

[Jane_Doe]

From time to time, Church leaders provide information to help answer some of our questions. But it is neither practical nor possible for our leaders to answer every question we may have. When we understand how to seek learning by study and by faith, we become more self-reliant, better able to seek divinely inspired answers to our own questions and continue faithful as we resolve concerns. President Boyd K. Packer taught: “Spiritual self-reliance is the sustaining power in the Church. … If we move so quickly to answer all your questions and provide so many ways to solve all of your problems, we may end up weakening you, not strengthening you.”4
Answering Gospel Questions

Do you disagree with any of that?

"Whenever someone asks me an antagonistic question, I never answer that question. Instead I answer the question they should have asked."
- Robert L. Millet to the Mission Prep Club at BYU

In other words: don't respond to flamers. CF rules direct us to do just that as well.

 

[Ironhold]

Also, remember the whole "give a man a fish" bit?

Past a certain point, a person needs to learn how to seek answers on their own and not rely on another person to just feed them everything.

 

[Rescued One]

Just giving you people an amazing opportunity other than criticizing non-Mormons' perceptions and posts. If you don't want to discuss it, go back to yer spouse.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Also, remember the whole "give a man a fish" bit?

Past a certain point, a person needs to learn how to seek answers on their own and not rely on another person to just feed them everything.

Where can I find the "give a man a fish" bit in the Bible? I always thought Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit to guide us.

 

[Peter1000]

As Robert Millet said when speaking to the Mission Prep Club at BYU:

• We aren't obligated to answer everybody's questions.
• You already know more about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than anybody who will attack you.
• Answer the right question.
• We never provide meat when milk will do. (He repeats this a couple of times.)

Video:
The Mormon Curtain - ROBERT L. MILLET

That is exactly what Paul the apostle said too.
1 Corinthians 3:2King James Version (KJV)
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

So what meat did Paul withhold from the members of the church?

 

[Peter1000]

"Milk before meat" is used by LDS as an excuse not to tell new or potential members something that will cause them to have second thoughts.

In a 1987 publication by Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints entitled JESUS CHRIST AND THE PLAN OF SALVATION, DISCUSSION 1, Discussions for New Members,

we read the following:
PRINCIPLE 1 THE ROLES OF JESUS CHRIST IN THE PLAN OF SALVATION
DISCUSSION

Jesus Christ Is the Creator
We have faith in Jeus Christ for many reasons. He is the Creator. [Read and discuss Mosiah 3:8] Under the direction of the Father, Christ created the earth and everything on it. He gave us everything we have.

He Is Our Redeemer and Savior
He is the Redeemer and Savior.
Through his sacrifice, we can return and live with him and our Father.

He Is Our Judge
Jesus Christ will be our judge. When our mortal life is over, he will judge us by our works and desires. He will be our advocate with the Father.

Testify: Express your feelings about ---
* Jesus Christ as the Creator, Redeemer, Savior, and Judge.
* The need to have faith in Christ.

Why are they telling new members that they need to have faith in Christ? They've already been baptized.

I notice some glaring omissions in the following:
"Through his sacrifice, we can return and live with him and our Father."

1. There is no mention of the Holy Spirit.
2. There is no mention of becoming gods and godesses.
3. There is no mention that temple marriage is a requirement for eternal life.

And these topics were never covered in Sacrament Meeting or Sunday School (there might be visitors in the audience).

Isn't that a fine kettle of fish?

Sounds like how Paul and I'm sure the other apostles taught:
1 Corinthians 3:2King James Version (KJV)
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Why was Paul withholding the meat?

 

[Rescued One]

Sounds like how Paul and I'm sure the other apostles taught:
1 Corinthians 3:2King James Version (KJV)
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Why was Paul withholding the meat?

Because they were immature having little knowledge of the word of God. There were no secret non-scriptural teachings being held back from these Gentile converts; they just were not ready to teach unbelievers. Verse 13 says it all:

Hebrews 5:11-14(KJV)
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Hebrews 5 ESV
Warning Against Apostasy
11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

Are LDS warning their immature missionaries that they should know more of what they are in fact trying to convince others of?

 

[Rescued One]

That is exactly what Paul the apostle said too.
1 Corinthians 3:2King James Version (KJV)
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

So what meat did Paul withhold from the members of the church?

Robert Millet suggested withholding information from non-members who asked questions.

Acts 17
Paul and Silas at Berea

10And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thitherwent into the synagogue of the Jews. 11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Had I actually known the unbiblical teachings of Mormonism, I would not have joined your organization!

 

[Peter1000]

Robert Millet suggested withholding information from non-members who asked questions.

So did Paul. I'm sure he was faced with the same problems.