Might some non-Christians go to Limbo?

[Basil the Great]

This thread is especially directed at the many of you here in CF who insist that only Christians can go to Heaven. Now, one of the most famous Church Fathers, Augustine, taught that the unbaptized babies go to Limbo, aka the Outer Edge of Hell. He felt that Limbo is not a bad place, but rather a place of natural happiness, but still not on par with Heaven. If those of you who maintain that only Christians can go to Heaven are correct, might it still not be possible for some Jews, Muslims and even others to go to Limbo and experience natural happiness, rather than eternal punishment in Hell? I am referring here to non-Christians who practice loving one's neighbor and perhaps also abide by the Noahide laws. FYI, Judaism teaches that non-Jews can go to Heaven, if they keep the Noahide laws.

 

[BCsenior]

This thread is especially directed at the many of you here in CF who insist that only Christians can go to Heaven. Now, one of the most famous Church Fathers, Augustine, taught that the unbaptized babies go to Limbo, aka the Outer Edge of Hell. He felt that Limbo is not a bad place, but rather a place of natural happiness, but still not on par with Heaven. If those of you who maintain that only Christians can go to Heaven are correct, might it still not be possible for some Jews, Muslims and even others to go to Limbo and experience natural happiness, rather than eternal punishment in Hell? I am referring here to non-Christians who practice loving one's neighbor and perhaps also abide by the Noahide laws. FYI, Judaism teaches that non-Jews can go to Heaven, if they keep the Noahide laws.

Never really heard of Limbo in that aspect, but makes sense to me for special others.
IMO, babies go to Heaven, as do children under God's age of accountability.

 

[Albion]

That's reasonable, Basil, but as with the historic idea of Limbo, that's the problem--it's a rationalization.

Because it is that, we best leave the matter to God and trust that he knows what he's doing.

 

[Basil the Great]

That's reasonable, Basil, but as with the historic idea of Limbo, that's the problem--it's a rationalization.

Because it is that, we best leave the matter to God and trust that he knows what he's doing.

As usual, it is hard to disagree with you, Albion.

 

[Kris Jordan]

This thread is especially directed at the many of you here in CF who insist that only Christians can go to Heaven. Now, one of the most famous Church Fathers, Augustine, taught that the unbaptized babies go to Limbo, aka the Outer Edge of Hell. He felt that Limbo is not a bad place, but rather a place of natural happiness, but still not on par with Heaven. If those of you who maintain that only Christians can go to Heaven are correct, might it still not be possible for some Jews, Muslims and even others to go to Limbo and experience natural happiness, rather than eternal punishment in Hell? I am referring here to non-Christians who practice loving one's neighbor and perhaps also abide by the Noahide laws. FYI, Judaism teaches that non-Jews can go to Heaven, if they keep the Noahide laws.

Hi Basil the Great,

There are only two locations for people to enter into upon their death: Heaven or Hell.

Those who enter heaven are those who have been born-again by the Spirit of God, having trusted Jesus Christ for their forgiveness and salvation. Apart from that, there is no other means available to enter because, even on our best day of loving others, being kind to our neighbors, etc., we are still sinners. It is our sin that separates us from having a relationship with God and from entering His presence when we die (without having been born-again).

For those who reject Jesus, the only alternative for them is Hell where they await their final judgment before being cast into outer darkness (The lake of fire).

*For babies who die before the age of accountability, they enter heaven. There is no "limbo" or "purgatory."

 

[Albion]

Thank you, Basil, but I wasn't being cute or enjoying turning a phrase there. A lot of people assume that Limbo (AKA infantile Limbo),which the Roman Church taught for centuries until only recently, was based on some Scriptural evidence, even if it was thin (as with Purgatory).

But no. Even the RCC admits that it adopted the idea simply as a guess. There is nothing in Scripture (or Tradition) which would suggest the existence of such a state or place, but neither does the church want to say that God would allow children to be born only to be sent to hell on account of original sin.

 

[Basil the Great]

Thank you, Basil, but I wasn't being cute or enjoying turning a phrase there. A lot of people assume that Limbo (AKA infantile Limbo),which the Roman Church taught for centuries until only recently, was based on some Scriptural evidence, even if it was thin (as with Purgatory).

But no. Even the RCC admits that it adopted the idea simply as a guess. There is nothing in Scripture (or Tradition) which would suggest the existence of such a state or place, but neither does the church want to say that God would allow children to be born only to be sent to hell on account of original sin.

Yes, I know of no Scripture which supports the concept of Limbo, but it is still possible that it exists. Perhaps Augustine was right on the idea of Limbo, but was wrong in terms of who goes there? Few Christians today, even Catholics, would seem to believe that the unbaptized babies are denied entrance into Heaven.

 

[Albion]

You're right that most Christians today do not want to believe that unbaptized infants will go to Hell on account of original sin. That seems to be what most of the churches today think as well.

But the "answer" that most of these give is not that Limbo is real but rather that God somehow holds onto these little ones who never sinned on their own. Therefore, they are supposed to be in Heaven.

I think that most people today, by the same token, would think that the happiness these children were said to experience in Limbo--a "natural happiness" not including the right to "see God"--would also be unacceptably cruel although generations of Catholics in the past were satisfied that such an outcome was just.

 

[BCsenior]

Yes, I know of no Scripture which supports the concept of Limbo, but it is still possible that it exists.

From what I've read, there are vastly different levels of heaven and hell.
In heaven, the levels go out horizontally.
In hell, the levels go down vertically.
IMO, there is an upper level in hell reserved for what we might call
"really good people", but who are NOT Christians.
This might be the Limbo you are referring to.

 

[Der Alte]

***

<AL>You're right that most Christians today do not want to believe that unbaptized infants will go to Hell on account of original sin. That seems to be what most of the churches today think as well.
But the "answer" that most of these give is not that Limbo is real but rather that God somehow holds onto these little ones who never sinned on their own. Therefore, they are supposed to be in Heaven.
I think that most people today, by the same token, would think that the happiness these children were said to experience in Limbo--a "natural happiness" not including the right to "see God"--would also be unacceptably cruel although generations of Catholics in the past were satisfied that such an outcome was just.<AL>

***

I think Paul addressed that issue in these 2 verses.

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. ​

 

[Aussie Pete]

This thread is especially directed at the many of you here in CF who insist that only Christians can go to Heaven. Now, one of the most famous Church Fathers, Augustine, taught that the unbaptized babies go to Limbo, aka the Outer Edge of Hell. He felt that Limbo is not a bad place, but rather a place of natural happiness, but still not on par with Heaven. If those of you who maintain that only Christians can go to Heaven are correct, might it still not be possible for some Jews, Muslims and even others to go to Limbo and experience natural happiness, rather than eternal punishment in Hell? I am referring here to non-Christians who practice loving one's neighbor and perhaps also abide by the Noahide laws. FYI, Judaism teaches that non-Jews can go to Heaven, if they keep the Noahide laws.

I believe that all infants are accepted by God as they are innocent. Those who are at the age of accountability must face God as judge unless they are born again. God considers all the righteousness of men as "filthy rags". Sin kills sinners. Unbelievers will be judged according to their works. Each person will have to live with the consequences of their actions. How that works in the next life, I do not know. However, the concept of hell being a place of fire and brimstone is not biblical. "Fire" in the Bible is mostly to do with God's judgement and God's righteous nature. I would think that the knowledge that you rejected God's love and grace in Christ would be a terrible and self inflicted torment.

 

[BCsenior]

However, the concept of hell being a place of fire and brimstone is not biblical.

Yeahbut, hell gets cast into the lake of fire!

 

[Aussie Pete]

Yeahbut, hell gets cast into the lake of fire!

Eventually, yes. I believe that the lake of fire is God's judgement, as in Hebrews, our God is a consuming fire. Hell is simply the grave, not the place damnation. That concept came from Dante's Inferno, which was subtitled "A Divine Comedy". Hardly a in depth study of God's word! It was popularised by certain groups as it fits nicely into the fear based obedience that they promote. I'll get in strife I say who they are.

 

[Jonaitis]

This thread is especially directed at the many of you here in CF who insist that only Christians can go to Heaven. Now, one of the most famous Church Fathers, Augustine, taught that the unbaptized babies go to Limbo, aka the Outer Edge of Hell. He felt that Limbo is not a bad place, but rather a place of natural happiness, but still not on par with Heaven. If those of you who maintain that only Christians can go to Heaven are correct, might it still not be possible for some Jews, Muslims and even others to go to Limbo and experience natural happiness, rather than eternal punishment in Hell? I am referring here to non-Christians who practice loving one's neighbor and perhaps also abide by the Noahide laws. FYI, Judaism teaches that non-Jews can go to Heaven, if they keep the Noahide laws.

I don't know of Augustine saying anything about it, but his opinion doesn't hold weight if it is against Scripture. That goes for any church father.

I do not see any place throughout Scripture that suggests that there are more than two places after death. It is clearly spelled out that all that belong to Christ, their spirit returns back to him, while the wicked are so far removed in outer darkness, all awaiting the day of resurrection and judgment, where their end will be decided for eternity.

There is no works that man can perform to bride the living God to quench the least flame in hell, especially if it is in their own tradition.

 

[RaymondG]

*For babies who die before the age of accountability, they enter heaven.

You're right that most Christians today do not want to believe that unbaptized infants will go to Hell

There are no babies crawling around in Heaven......Just like there are no 80-90 year old's wheeling around the streets of gold in wheelchairs. No lame or blind, or deaf, or dumb in heaven either.

No need to attached the status of the flesh on earth, to the likeness of the image in heaven. Or to make some think that they must carry over there current likeness, after death.

It is better to to ask for wisdom, than to state, as truth, ways that seemeth right unto man......

 

[BCsenior]

... the fear based obedience that they promote.

I wouldn't go quite so far as to say ...
the "they" are the writers of the NT, i.e. the Triune Godhead.

Foist of oil ... have you seen the MANY NT verses about "FEAR"?
We can pursue this further, if thou wouldst care to.

 

[BCsenior]

There are no babies crawling around in Heaven......Just like there are no 80-90 year old's wheeling around the streets of gold in wheelchairs. No lame or blind, or deaf, or dumb in heaven either.
No need to attached the status of the flesh on earth, to the likeness of the image in heaven. Or to make some think that they must carry over there current likeness, after death.
It is better to to ask for wisdom, than to state, as truth, ways that seemeth right unto man......

Yes, considerable wisdom expressed here!
I was thinking just the other day (Oh my, really?) ...
it appears that people in heaven look like they were in their 30's-40's!
And no babies, elderly, pets, etc.
Just from what I've read and heard.

 

[ViaCrucis]

*For babies who die before the age of accountability, they enter heaven. There is no "limbo" or "purgatory."

Perhaps you could provide Scripture to back up this "age of accountability" and that babies therefore have a free ticket to heaven.

Note: I'm not suggesting infants who die don't go to heaven, I'm merely asking that you back this claim up with something, anything really.

Because, frankly, this statement tends to get made after one has just finished arguing, as you have, that people either go to this place called "Heaven" or they go to this place called "Hell". It's that simple, one is either in or out, and *we* are in, and *they* are out. However, that doesn't sound really good when we start talking about babies, so the necessity to insert the loophole in the rules: Babies get a free ticket to heaven because they're babies.

It's an immeasurably over-simplistic view that simply doesn't mesh with the kind of complex ideas which Scripture uses to talk about things like life after death, judgment, and so on and so forth.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yes, I know of no Scripture which supports the concept of Limbo, but it is still possible that it exists. Perhaps Augustine was right on the idea of Limbo, but was wrong in terms of who goes there? Few Christians today, even Catholics, would seem to believe that the unbaptized babies are denied entrance into Heaven.

The simple fact of the matter is Scripture doesn't give us all the answers to all the big and tough questions. And so, quite frankly, it is entirely imprudent of us to presume to act like we have all the answers when we don't. Limbo was a way of trying to talk about things that we just don't have any solid answers about--what happens to unbaptized infants? What about the unevangelized? Is Socrates in Hell because he had the misfortune of being born before Jesus? And so we get Limbo, it's not bad, it's not great--it kind of just is. But, it was never dogma, it was always speculation.

And that's what these sorts of conversations usually end up being--speculation.

At the end of the day we can only hope and pray in God's mercy and kind justice.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Kris Jordan]

Perhaps you could provide Scripture to back up this "age of accountability" and that babies therefore have a free ticket to heaven.

Note: I'm not suggesting infants who die don't go to heaven, I'm merely asking that you back this claim up with something, anything really.

Because, frankly, this statement tends to get made after one has just finished arguing, as you have, that people either go to this place called "Heaven" or they go to this place called "Hell". It's that simple, one is either in or out, and *we* are in, and *they* are out. However, that doesn't sound really good when we start talking about babies, so the necessity to insert the loophole in the rules: Babies get a free ticket to heaven because they're babies.

It's an immeasurably over-simplistic view that simply doesn't mesh with the kind of complex ideas which Scripture uses to talk about things like life after death, judgment, and so on and so forth.

-CryptoLutheran

Hi ViaCrucis,

When David's child died, he said in 2 Samuel 12:22-23), "While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who can tell whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.” The child obviously went to heaven because that's where David went upon his death, based upon what is said of him by God in 1 Samuel 13:14 and Acts 13:22.

People go to heaven for one reason: They trust Jesus for their salvation and are saved. If they reject Him, they remain condemned and go to hell (and ultimately to the Lake of Fire after judgment). Since babies cannot make the decision to accept or reject Jesus, God's grace obviously covers them.