Mid -Acts Dispensational Doctrine

ac28

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2013
608
140
✟46,442.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
You made no attempt to disprove anything I said. You only restated your THEORIES and expect them to be accepted as fact because you say so. You are even telling me which scriptures I may use and may not use. Who do you think you are dude? I guess we're done.
I disproved everything you said. I showed that the mystery in Paul's post-Acts books was hid in God since the world began, before anything in the OT happened and, therefore, it's impossible that the OT has any bearing on what is truth for today. Of course, your doctrine, steeped in tradition, won't allow for that.

Actually, nothing between Gen 12 and Ac 28:28 applies directly to us today, except for Christ. Those 59 books are obviously all-Israel. Can you name anything in them, besides Christ, that was given to Israel, that was also given to Gentiles - proselytes or Gentiles grafted into Israel don't count. I'm talking about today's Gentiles, who are ALL 100% free from being under Israel's thumb.
 
  • Like
Reactions: patrick jane
Upvote 0

patrick jane

MAD Bible Believer
Supporter
Jun 22, 2015
2,454
1,327
55
St. Louis - Ephesians 2:6-8
Visit site
✟132,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Differences Between Acts 2, Acts 28, and Mid-Acts

Differences Between Acts 2, Acts 28, and Mid-Acts

By Justin Johnson

It would be naive to think all dispensationalists teach the same thing. They do not. Not all dispensationalists teach the same thing about Paul.

If you are new to dispensational Bible study you may not know the important differences between Acts 2, Acts 28, and Mid-Acts dispensationalists.

Others that know the differences may think we should all join hands in a common cause against covenant kingdom theology.

Still others will not identify themselves as different so as to persuade you secretly to join their ranks while you remain oblivious to what has happened.

And you might be one who does not know why it matters.

Here are a few simple definitions to help you discern what you are reading, who you are listening to, and whether or not you should be.

Dispensationalism

This is the teaching that how God acts toward mankind, and how he expects us to respond to him, changes through the Bible as he reveals his will.

Groups that see a difference in God’s operations (though not a change in God himself) are being dispensational.

If they claim a difference in Israel and the Church (with a future for both), Law and Grace, or Prophecy and Mystery then they would be dispensational.

Acts 2 Dispensational

Acts 2 dispensationalists see the church as a fulfillment of at least some Old Testament prophecies.

They claim the church began at the Jewish feast day of Pentecost when the believers there were baptized with the Holy Ghost.

To them, Israel will be restored, but Christ came in Matt-John to establish the church of today. They believe Peter and Paul taught the same gospel regarding Christ.

They would take all of the new testament scriptures as applicable to the church.

If a dispensationalist says Peter and Paul were sent to preach the same thing, they are an Acts 2 dispensationalist.

Acts 28 Dispensational

There is a much smaller group who we will identify as Acts 28 dispensationalists. They do no think the church of today fulfills any Old Testament prophecies.

They claim that the church of today did not begin until God revealed it to Paul, but it was not made known by Paul during his ministry before Acts 28.

To them, Jesus’ ministry was to Israel, Peter’s ministry was to Israel, and Paul’s ministry in the book of Acts was part of Israel’s program that included Gentiles. They teach that it was not until after the sign gifts and powers ceased (Acts 28) that Paul began to preach the mystery concerning the church.

They take Paul’s later epistles as solely applicable to the church today containing the new revelation of the mystery given to Paul presumably after Acts 28 (Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, Philemon, Timothy, and Titus).

They teach that Paul’s early epistles do not include any mystery information about the church revealed in his later epistles and are not for the church today (Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, and Thessalonians).

If someone says that Paul was sent to preach two different messages, one was prophecy, one was mystery; they are Acts 28 dispensationalists (or a distorted variety of such).

Mid-Acts Dispensational

Mid-Acts dispensationalists teach that the church is not a fulfillment of either the old or new testaments.

We claim that the church of today began with Paul as he was first given the preaching of the cross to proclaim as the gospel, and the mystery of Christ and his church.

Paul was saved and began his ministry during the book of Acts. His gospel was always different than that of Jesus in his ministry to Israel (Matt-John), and Peter in Acts 2.

Paul was revealed a mystery from Christ, but it was early in his ministry, and he taught the same message of the gospel of Christ, the mystery of Christ and the church, throughout his ministry

The doctrine for the church today is found in all of Paul’s epistles, although there are times when Paul addresses and speaks to Israel, the little flock, and the unsaved.

If someone says Peter and Paul always taught different things, they are mid-Acts dispensationalists.

It matters what you believe about Paul and his ministry, even if you are dispensational.

This website is mid-Acts dispensational.

Top of the Page
Article Index
Published: June 7, 2014
Last Modified: April 14, 2018
Related posts:


  1. -What Happened in Mid-Acts?
    -What is Mid-Acts Pauline Dispensational Right Division?
    -The Main Point of Mid Acts Doctrine
    -When the Dispensation of Grace Began
    -Mid Acts Dispensational Questions and Answers
    -Why Do You Call It Mid-Acts Pauline Dispensational Right Division?
    -Mid-Acts Dispensational Straw Men
 
  • Agree
Reactions: MWood
Upvote 0

Jack Terrence

Fighting the good fight
Feb 15, 2013
2,851
194
✟27,525.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
I disproved everything you said. I showed that the mystery in Paul's post-Acts books was hid in God since the world began, before anything in the OT happened and, therefore, it's impossible that the OT has any bearing on what is truth for today. Of course, your doctrine, steeped in tradition, won't allow for that.

Actually, nothing between Gen 12 and Ac 28:28 applies directly to us today, except for Christ. Those 59 books are obviously all-Israel. Can you name anything in them, besides Christ, that was given to Israel, that was also given to Gentiles - proselytes or Gentiles grafted into Israel don't count. I'm talking about today's Gentiles, who are ALL 100% free from being under Israel's thumb.
Uh, you did not "show" anything. You made only bare assertions. For example, you made the bare assertion that Israel does not exist today. I countered that assertion with Acts 2:39 in which Peter is addressing the men of Israel saying that the promise of the Holy Spirit was for THEM, and for their CHILDREN, and for those FOR A GREAT WHILE TO COME. It is saying that the promise was of the Holy Spirit was for them and their IMMEDIATE and their DISTANT offspring. I offered Isaiah 59:21 as a support verse. These scriptures destroy your theory that Israel does not exist today. You did not reply to Acts 2:39 specifically.

You said also that the old testament is about the twelve tribes only. I offered you Ezekiel 47:22 which commands Israel to treat Gentiles as "native born" Israelites, and that they are to be allotted an inheritance among the twelve tribes. And I gave the scripture from Isaiah which talks about Egyptians and Assyrians becoming God's people with Israel. So the old testament is NOT about the twelve tribes of Israel only. Again you did NOT answer specifically.

I had not yet commented on your parenthesis theory specifically. So you are arguing with someone else as far as I am concerned.

Then you tell me which scriptures I may or may not use. Wow! That's a first! My first thought was "The arrogance of this guy." This is not a formal debate in which we agree on rules and on what constitutes sources and such. This is informal conversation and I may invoke which ever scriptures I like and so may you. If you don't like it, then you should pass on commenting altogether.
 
Last edited:
  • Prayers
Reactions: patrick jane
Upvote 0

patrick jane

MAD Bible Believer
Supporter
Jun 22, 2015
2,454
1,327
55
St. Louis - Ephesians 2:6-8
Visit site
✟132,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Does Romans 2:28-29 Teach A Spiritual Israel?

Does Romans 2:28-29 Teach A Spiritual Israel?


Romans 2:28-29 is one of the more popular passages used to teach that true Israel is not the physical nation but any who has the spirit of God. This type of interpretation refers to the church today as spiritual Israel. This spiritualization of Israel diminishes the authority of the scripture and denies the natural reading as explained in ‘Does the Bible Teach a Spiritualized Israel’.

Though it may be desirous to try and usurp some of Israel’s prophecies or promises, the natural reading of Romans 2:28-29does not teach that the church today, where there is neither Jew nor Gentile, is spiritual Israel.

We can determine this first by establishing who the passage is addressing.

‘Thou Art Called a Jew’

“Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God” – Romans 2:17

Romans 2:17 indicates the audience of the passage as those that are called Jews. He continues in the next three verses speaking about how the Jews were given the wisdom of the law.

So then, he that is called a Jew is the same who was given the oracles of God and was given the promises, covenants, and service of God (Romans 3:2, 9:4). The target audience of the passage is physical Israel, those of the house of Jacob.

The Name of God Blasphemed

“Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written” – Romans 2:23-24

As we continue through the passage we see that Paul starts to address a problem with his blessed nation Israel. Israel makes their boast in the law, but they fail to do the law. Israel the people named after God, have become as vain as the Gentiles given up by God in Romans 1 (Romans 1:24,26,28).

The Issue of Circumcision

“For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. “ – Romans 2:25

When God gave the covenant to Abraham, he instituted circumcision as the token that Israel was keeping the covenant (Genesis 17:10-14). If they break the law then the token of keeping it is made worthless. The circumcision sign is made vanity and just as if they were uncircumcised.

“Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?” – Romans 2:26-27

Keep in mind that Israel was given a prophetic position to teach and to judge the nations (uncircumcision), because they were given the promises and the covenant and the law (Romans 9:4, Isaiah 61:6).

However, Paul notices that if Israel behaves like the nations, and the nations walk in righteousness, the nations should judge Israel! Since Israel was blaspheming the name of God by boasting in the law while breaking it, Paul places Israel in their proper place.

He suggests that the nations who kept the righteousness of the law, though being uncircumcised and strangers from the covenants, should be the judge of unrighteous Israel who blasphemed God through their disobedience of the law while carrying the token of obedience in circumcision.

Who’s a Jew?

As we finally reach the verses used to teach a spiritual Israel we should recognize that so far Paul has been talking about the physical nation Israel and their failure to keep the law.

Also, we should realize that no Gentile nation has kept the law either. For the nations were given up by God as being reprobate in chapter 1. This is the very reason God called Abraham out from among the Gentiles, because the Gentiles were already in disobedience.

“For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: “ – Romans 2:28

Here Paul references the true meaning of the circumcision found in the law to describe who is truly a Jew, worthy of the token of the covenant.

“Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked” – Deut 10:16

A Jew obedient to the covenant, worthy of the circumcision, and the name of God is one that circumcises the heart and obeys the law of righteousness. Hence, the final verse.

“But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. “ – Romans 2:29

Israel was wrong to boast in the law, which is the letter, while they were not obeying the law to circumcise their hearts in the spirit. Therefore, though a Jew had an advantage by having the law and the oracles of God, it became of none effect since they were disobedient to it.

Only those circumcised Jews who were obedient to the law could truly claim the promises inherent in the token of circumcision. Rather than adding Gentiles to a supposed “spiritual Israel”, Paul is here removing those dead bones from the nation Israel from claiming righteousness based on their circumcision.

Spiritual Israel

The entire passage speaks of the physical nation of Israel, and their disobedience to the law of Deut 10:16. In no way does it refer to a ‘spiritual’ Israel which is not of physical Israel or to the church today in an allegorical fashion.

Even more significant to those would be saved by God’s grace today is the fact that the uncircumcision are reckoned circumcision in the passage only when they keep the law!

However, Paul proves to both Jew and Gentile that they are all under sin, and by the deeds of the law no flesh shall be justified (Romans 3:10-20). If the Jew in Romans 2:28-29 is spiritual Israel then the Jew in Romans 3:10 must also be spiritual, which would place the most unnatural reading on the passage.

Where is the Jew that is part of an alleged spiritual body of Israel to be found in Romans 3:10 where all are found unrighteous? Everyone on the planet is contained in this passage which sets the foundation for the gospel of the grace of God proclaimed in Romans 3:22-26.

Conclusion

To make the church today part of the Jew in Romans 2:28-29 would require an ignorance of the context, prophecy concerning Israel, as well as a disrespect for the natural reading of the word of God.

The church today is neither a replacement for Israel, nor is Israel an allegory for the church. Instead the church, the body of Christ, that contains the redeemed today is labeled a ‘new creature’ (2 Cor 5:17).

We are given the title of ambassadors for Christ, members of his body, a title separate and distinct from the covenanted name for the nation Israel according to prophecy.


  1. -Does the Bible Teach A Spiritual Israel?
    -By Faith and Through Faith
    -Israel’s Spiritual Fall
    -A Look at History With and Without Israel
    -Without Israel, Without Covenants, Without the Law
    -Your Circumcision is Not of the Heart
    -A Dispensational New Year
 
Upvote 0

ac28

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2013
608
140
✟46,442.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Uh, you did not "show" anything. You made only bare assertions. For example, you made the bare assertion that Israel does not exist today. I countered that assertion with Acts 2:39 in which Peter is addressing the men of Israel saying that the promise of the Holy Spirit was for THEM, and for their CHILDREN, and for those FOR A GREAT WHILE TO COME. It is saying that the promise was of the Holy Spirit was for them and their IMMEDIATE and their DISTANT offspring. I offered Isaiah 59:21 as a support verse. These scriptures destroy your theory that Israel does not exist today. You did not reply to Acts 2:39 specifically.

You said also that the old testament is about the twelve tribes only. I offered you Ezekiel 47:22 which commands Israel to treat Gentiles as "native born" Israelites, and that they are to be allotted an inheritance among the twelve tribes. And I gave the scripture from Isaiah which talks about Egyptians and Assyrians becoming God's people with Israel. So the old testament is NOT about the twelve tribes of Israel only. Again you did NOT answer specifically.

I had not yet commented on your parenthesis theory specifically. So you are arguing with someone else as far as I am concerned.

Then you tell me which scriptures I may or may not use. Wow! That's a first! My first thought was "The arrogance of this guy." This is not a formal debate in which we agree on rules and on what constitutes sources and such. This is informal conversation and I may invoke which ever scriptures I like and so may you. If you don't like it, then you should pass on commenting altogether.

There is no smoking gun verse that says Israel are not God's people today, but there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that they are not God’s people today.

(1) The curse of Isaiah 6:9-10, which, in its full state, would invoke total spiritual blindness on Israel, was pronounced 4 separate times in the NT. This is also quoted in Mark 4:12 and Luke 8:10 , but these 2 are repeats of the one in Matthew. The ones in Mt, Jn, and Rom, below, were either statements on the status of Israel's blindness or the inducing of partial blindness. In these 3 cases, we see the existence of Israel, as God's people, after Isa 6 was pronounced. Only after Acts of the Apostles 28:28, in Paul's 7 post-Acts books, do we see the total absence of Israel during this present all-Gentile 2000 year period
----- Matthew 13:14-15 - After Christ pronounced Isa 6 on Israel, He ceased to talk to the multitudes and the Pharisees, except in parables. As far as I can see, Israel was set aside at that point, and continued to be set aside until Christ's prayer on the cross of, "Please forgive them....", gave them a fresh start in Acts
----- John 12:37-41 - This later pronouncement by Christ, seems to only give the status of Israel at that point
----- Romans 11:8 - This only gave a partial blindness of Israel, vs 25. This chapter is mainly about the Gentiles replacing SOME (vs 17) of the branches of the good olive tree, which is Israel, by being grafted into Israel. The church was still predominantly Israel. The blessings the Gentiles enjoyed during the entirety of Acts, ALL came from Israel. Romans was written 5-6 years before the end of Acts. Yet, in Acts 28, Paul was still going to the Jew first and, in vs 20, he said he was bound "FOR THE HOPE OF ISRAEL". Nothing about Gentiles. There is absolutely no indication that a Gentile church started in Acts. Acts is 100% Israel, from start to finish.
----- Acts of the Apostles 28:25-27 - This was the last straw of the atrocity of stiff-necked Israel, as a nation, refusing to acknowledge Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah. This was a permanent pronouncement of Isa 6, as is proven later. It was what all of the previous warnings, by the pronouncement of Isa 6, eventually came down to.

(2) - In Acts of the Apostles 28:28 , we read that the Salvation of God is given to the Gentiles. It doesn’t say, but it’s quite obvious, when you look at everything, that, at that same time, the Salvation of God was taken from Israel. There is evidence that the “Salvation of God” is Jesus Christ, Luke 3:6 , Like 2:30 . According to Ephesians 2:11-12 , the Gentiles did not have Jesus Christ at all during Acts, but we do now, since Israel is off the map of God..

(3) The word, “departed”, in Acts of the Apostles 28:25 , is used elsewhere as meaning divorce. From Thayer’s:
“used of divorce, as ἀπολύω τήν γυναῖκα to dismiss from the house, to repudiate: Matthew 1:19 ; Matthew 5:31; Matthew 19:3,7,9 ; Mark10:2,4,11 ; Like 16:18 ; (1 Esdr. 9:36); and improperly a wife deserting her husband is said τόν ἄνδρα ἀπολύειν in Mark 10:12

The word has other meanings, like dismiss, send away, or release. Considering everything else, I would guess that “divorce” is meant.

(4) There is absolute no mention of any present Jewish activity in Paul’s 7 epistles written after Acts. The word, “Abraham” appears 29 times in Paul’s Acts epistles and the phrase, “it is written” appears 32 times. Neither appear in his after-Acts epistles, not even once. Everything in Paul’s 7 after Acts books is directed to Gentiles. Unlike the Gentile’s in Acts, who had no inheritance, because the adoption belonged to Israel, the Gentiles had an inheritance after Acts Eph 1:11,14 , Col 1:12 . If the Jews want the “Salvation of God” today, they have to essentially become Gentiles and believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. They have absolutely no national privileges today, as they had from Gen 12 through Acts and will have again in about 55 years.

(5) It seems that the book of Hosea prophesied Israel’s present situation. I won’t go deeply into this except to say that it’s evident that Israel has become Lo-ammi, “Not My People”, as in Hosea 1:9 . However, they will become “Ammi”, “My People”, again, after two days, Hosea 6:2 . If 2 days means 2000 years, and I think it does, Israel will once again be a nation, in God’s eyes, in about 2063.

(6) Without a Temple and animal sacrifices, it is impossible for Israel to keep the law. It is therefore, impossible, for them to be God’s chosen people. The Gentiles that have been given the eyes of understanding to see the Hope of their calling ( Ephesians 1:17-18 ) are God’s chosen people today, Ephesians 1:4

(7) From what Christ laid on the Pharisees concerning their traditions in Mt 16 and Mk 7, I can’t imagine any Jew that uses the Talmud for doctrine, as being one of God’s chosen people.

Now for the cons, the scripture that disproves the idea that Israel was set aside in Acts 28:28.

I can't seem to find any.

*****************************************************

Acts 2:39 has absolutely nothing to do with anything during this present 2000 years. We live in a parenthesis. It’s as though time stopped for Israel. She will be back when this all-Gentile period ends. OT prophecy (which always involves Israel) will once again be fulfilled. God’s only plan for today is to call out those Gentiles (the new Church which is the actual Body of Christ, Eph 5:30, who will be resurrected at the “Appearing” (Not the rapture) and will immediately be translated to the Highest Heaven where Christ now sits at the right hand of God, Ephesians 1:20 , 2:6 . When we get there, Christ will appear (manifest Himself) there with us, Colossians 3:4

When he said what he did in Acts 2:39 , Peter knew nothing about Israel being set aside, later in Acts, and nothing about ANYTHING Paul wrote after Acts, since it was all HID IN GOD in the form of a Mystery (secret) since the world began, Ephesians 3:9 , Colossians 1:26 , until it was revealed to Paul by Christ ( Ephesians 3:3 ) and Paul revealed it to the world in his 7 post-Acts epistles. So. nothing Peter ever said, at any time, had anything at all to do with Israel's being set aside at the end of Acts.

I believe that the Church which is His Body will be resurrected in about 2063, when the 2 days of Hosea 6:2 are finished. It seems logical to me that the next step will be the restoration of ALL things by Elijah. One thing I strongly believe he will restore is reverting the time back to the 1st Century, probably somewhere between Acts 2 and Acts 9. This time, though, Israel will repent and accept Christ. This will solve several scriptural problems. The main one being:

That everyone in Acts and the Gospels believed that Christ would return immediately (like in their lifetimes) and set up their earthly Kingdom. There are 36 places in the NT where we find Christ, Paul, James, and the 12 saying such things as, “Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.”, “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death”, “This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled”, “I come quickly”, “The time is short”, and “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed”.

As things stand now, with 1900+ years having passed since these things were said, everyone that said then is a liar. By starting things over after Acts 2, where Israel will accept Christ, all 36 become TRUE statements. I think it will have to start before Acts 9, because Paul will already be in the Highest Heaven, as part of Christ’s Body.

****************************************************

Your quote of Ezekiel 47:22 has only to do with the distribution of the land, probably to prevent the Gentiles that lived among them from being a burden. I know of no other “inheritance” the Gentiles received from God in the OT. The Gentiles were filthy dogs and 2nd class citizens to Israel from Gen 12 to Acts 10. Even after the Gentiles in Acts became part of Israel, as they were grafted into Israel, they still didn’t have the Adoption, Rom 9:4. During those times, even a natural born child had to go through a legal “adoption” in order to become a “Son” and have an inheritance. In essence, Gentiles had no inheritance before Ac 28:28 and Israel has no national inheritance today.

**************************************************

The thing is that the only scripture today, that is TO is and ABOUT us and tells us what our future will be, are Paul’s after-Acts books: Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. EVERYTHING in those books, that applies to us Gentiles today was in a Mystery, a secret, hid in God since the world began. Nothing in those 7 books was known by any human, until it was reavealed to Paul, after Acts, and then written in those 7 books. Therefore, nothing that applies to us today, except for Jesus Christ, can be found in any of the other 59 all-Israel books. From certain passages, like Paul’s prayer at the end of Eph 1, it seems like the only people that will be in Heaven are those that SEE, believe, and claim the Hope of this Calling, found only in Paul’s 7 after-Acts epistles. In order to See the true Hope, all other Hopes, belonging to Israel, things like the rapture, the New Jerusalem, and the Kingdom of Heaven, must be given up. You’ll never get them anyway, since they were NEVER given to Gentiles, like you, that have no association with Israel, at the present time

This separation from all things Israel is what 2 Timothy 2:15 , right division, is all about, to Correctly Cut and eliminate all things that were given to Israel, except Christ, from your doctrine. I think the reason is that everything given to Israel conflicts with the things given to us. Nothing given to Israel in those 59 books was ever given to us Gentiles and nothing given us Gentiles in those 7 after-Acts books was ever given to Israel. All you have to do is make one straight cut between Acts and Ephesians. EVERYTHING in the 7 books on the Ephesians side of the cut is TO you and ABOUT you. NOTHING in the 59 all-Israel books on the Acts side of the Cut is TO you or ABOUT you. If you were to do this and practice this, you would be approved unto God and would have no need to feel ashamed (see 2 Timothy 2:15 ). It's not easy to do. It took me 10 years to eliminate every shred of Israel from my doctrine. Those 59 Jewish are all invaluable FOR your learning, but worthless as far as knowing anything about your future.

If you want to go to the Highest Heaven, where Christ sits at he right hand of God, instead of spending eternity on the earth, with the nation Israel, you must:
1 -- STUDY Paul's 7 after-Acts books and apply EVERYTHING in them to YOU, your doctrine, and your future.
2 -- READ the other 59 books for knowledge, information, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, but don't apply ANYTHING in them (except Christ) TO you or try to answer ANY question concerning your future.
3 -- OBEY 2Tim 2:15 to the max, as far as rightly dividing what WAS given to the Jew, from Gen 12 thru Acts 28 (63AD), from what IS given to the Gentile, today.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: patrick jane
Upvote 0

patrick jane

MAD Bible Believer
Supporter
Jun 22, 2015
2,454
1,327
55
St. Louis - Ephesians 2:6-8
Visit site
✟132,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Did the Church Begin at Pentecost?


Did the Church Begin at Pentecost?


Contrary to what many teach, Acts chapter 2 is not the beginning of the Christian church. We can assuredly know this not because we are forced by a denominational leader or by any contention with the Spirit-filled events that happened. Instead, we can make such a confident statement by the evidence of Scripture.

As discussed in ‘What Happened at Pentecost?’ and ‘Did God Respond to Extreme Faith?’, the supernatural baptism with the Holy Spirit was not a secret or untold event. Major Prophets as well as the Lord Jesus Christ declared the upcoming baptism with the Holy Ghost as a result of the institution of the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31, Matthew 3:11, John 14:26).

First, it may be necessary to point out that an established group was already waiting in Jerusalem at Pentecost for the ‘next step’ in their desire to enter the kingdom of God. Acts 2:41 states that on the day of the Spirit-filled preaching by Peter ‘there were ADDED UNTO THEM about three thousand souls’. Therefore, Acts chapter 2 does not describe the origin of a church, but simply the addition to an already existing group that consisted of at least one hundred and twenty (Acts 1:15).

It could be said that although there was already a small up-start that the ‘ball didn’t get rolling’ until the Spirit-filled preaching at Pentecost. Yet, prior to Pentecost, even Peter and the disciples attribute the ‘beginning’ of their group to the preaching of John the Baptist in their conditions for electing the replacement disciple for Judas.

“Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.” – Acts 1:21-22

Therefore, if there were to be a beginning of this Pentecostal church it would have to start with John the Baptist.

The Beginning or the End

However, there is more scriptural evidence to show that this group of believers even beginning at John the Baptist’s ministry were not looking forward to the beginning of prolonged ‘church age’, but were rightly anticipating the end of times.

Not only did Jesus begin his ministry preaching ‘the kingdom of God is at hand’, but he ended with a preaching about the end times as well (Mark 1:14, Matthew 24). In his Sermon on the Mount of Olives, Jesus spoke of the signs that would accompany the ‘end of the world’ (Matthew 24:3). Such signs include the ‘abomination of desolation’; ‘false Christs’; and signs in the sun, moon and stars (Matthew 24:14,24,29).

At Pentecost Peter filled with the Holy Ghost says:

“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the LAST DAYS…” – Acts 2:16-17a

And also,

“The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:” – Acts 2:20

This connection between Jesus’ signs of the end, and Peter’s message at Pentecost leaves us no other conclusion but to believe that what was happening at Pentecost was part of the ‘last days’ spoken of by Joel (Joel 2:28-30).

Therefore if Pentecost was the beginning of anything, it was the beginning of the end.

The supernatural empowerment of the Holy Ghost would assist the believing remnant of Israel as they ‘endured until the end’ and preached the ‘gospel of the kingdom in all the world’ (Matthew 24:13-14). Not only so, but the supernatural powers provided by the Holy Ghost at Pentecost would help to protect the believing remnant from a great tribulation that ‘was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be’ (Matthew 24:21).

What Happened?

Of course, as I write this nearly 2000 years after that Pentecost, the end has not come. The natural question is ‘what happened’? The dispensational answer is the entire subject of this ministry and the revelation of the mystery given to Paul.

Shortly after that Pentecost, and before God was to pour out his wrath upon mankind, he saved Paul ‘out of due time’ and made him the dispenser of an entirely new and secret message of Grace.

Paul describes the institution of a ‘new creature’, the church, the Body of Christ (2 Cor 5:17, 1 Cor 12:13). It is this church in which Paul says that he was FIRST to be initiated:

“Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.” – 1 Timothy 1:16

Therefore our pattern is not those believers looking for the end under the New Covenant at Pentecost, but our apostle and model is Paul who tells us what happened after Pentecost.

This dispensation of Grace has been in operation for the past couple millennia, but when it concludes, God will once again continue with his prophetic purpose with the noise of trumpets and his return as they were waiting for at that Pentecost.

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” – Acts
 
Upvote 0

ac28

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2013
608
140
✟46,442.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Did the Church Begin at Pentecost?


Did the Church Begin at Pentecost?


Contrary to what many teach, Acts chapter 2 is not the beginning of the Christian church. We can assuredly know this not because we are forced by a denominational leader or by any contention with the Spirit-filled events that happened. Instead, we can make such a confident statement by the evidence of Scripture.

As discussed in ‘What Happened at Pentecost?’ and ‘Did God Respond to Extreme Faith?’, the supernatural baptism with the Holy Spirit was not a secret or untold event. Major Prophets as well as the Lord Jesus Christ declared the upcoming baptism with the Holy Ghost as a result of the institution of the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31, Matthew 3:11, John 14:26).

First, it may be necessary to point out that an established group was already waiting in Jerusalem at Pentecost for the ‘next step’ in their desire to enter the kingdom of God. Acts 2:41 states that on the day of the Spirit-filled preaching by Peter ‘there were ADDED UNTO THEM about three thousand souls’. Therefore, Acts chapter 2 does not describe the origin of a church, but simply the addition to an already existing group that consisted of at least one hundred and twenty (Acts 1:15).

It could be said that although there was already a small up-start that the ‘ball didn’t get rolling’ until the Spirit-filled preaching at Pentecost. Yet, prior to Pentecost, even Peter and the disciples attribute the ‘beginning’ of their group to the preaching of John the Baptist in their conditions for electing the replacement disciple for Judas.

“Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.” – Acts 1:21-22

Therefore, if there were to be a beginning of this Pentecostal church it would have to start with John the Baptist.

The Beginning or the End

However, there is more scriptural evidence to show that this group of believers even beginning at John the Baptist’s ministry were not looking forward to the beginning of prolonged ‘church age’, but were rightly anticipating the end of times.

Not only did Jesus begin his ministry preaching ‘the kingdom of God is at hand’, but he ended with a preaching about the end times as well (Mark 1:14, Matthew 24). In his Sermon on the Mount of Olives, Jesus spoke of the signs that would accompany the ‘end of the world’ (Matthew 24:3). Such signs include the ‘abomination of desolation’; ‘false Christs’; and signs in the sun, moon and stars (Matthew 24:14,24,29).

At Pentecost Peter filled with the Holy Ghost says:

“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the LAST DAYS…” – Acts 2:16-17a

And also,

“The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:” – Acts 2:20

This connection between Jesus’ signs of the end, and Peter’s message at Pentecost leaves us no other conclusion but to believe that what was happening at Pentecost was part of the ‘last days’ spoken of by Joel (Joel 2:28-30).

Therefore if Pentecost was the beginning of anything, it was the beginning of the end.

The supernatural empowerment of the Holy Ghost would assist the believing remnant of Israel as they ‘endured until the end’ and preached the ‘gospel of the kingdom in all the world’ (Matthew 24:13-14). Not only so, but the supernatural powers provided by the Holy Ghost at Pentecost would help to protect the believing remnant from a great tribulation that ‘was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be’ (Matthew 24:21).

What Happened?

Of course, as I write this nearly 2000 years after that Pentecost, the end has not come. The natural question is ‘what happened’? The dispensational answer is the entire subject of this ministry and the revelation of the mystery given to Paul.

Shortly after that Pentecost, and before God was to pour out his wrath upon mankind, he saved Paul ‘out of due time’ and made him the dispenser of an entirely new and secret message of Grace.

Paul describes the institution of a ‘new creature’, the church, the Body of Christ (2 Cor 5:17, 1 Cor 12:13). It is this church in which Paul says that he was FIRST to be initiated:

“Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.” – 1 Timothy 1:16

Therefore our pattern is not those believers looking for the end under the New Covenant at Pentecost, but our apostle and model is Paul who tells us what happened after Pentecost.

This dispensation of Grace has been in operation for the past couple millennia, but when it concludes, God will once again continue with his prophetic purpose with the noise of trumpets and his return as they were waiting for at that Pentecost.

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” – Acts
I read an excellent article today about the huge growth throughout Christendom of the heretical belief that the church started at Pentecost, a primary Jewish Feast, in Acts 2. It said this heresy was instrumental in the proliferation of the heretical fake tongues movement we have today. The gifts of the Holy Spirit given in Acts were, of course, a sample of Israel's New Covenant, and they ceased to exist when Israel, as a nation, was set aside in Acts.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: patrick jane
Upvote 0

patrick jane

MAD Bible Believer
Supporter
Jun 22, 2015
2,454
1,327
55
St. Louis - Ephesians 2:6-8
Visit site
✟132,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Did the Church Begin in Acts 28?


Did the Church Begin in Acts 28?




More than a few people have adopted the Acts 28 position regarding the beginning of the present church and the dispensation of grace given to Paul. However, this late beginning diminishes the special ministry declared by Paul in his pre-prison epistles.

This dangerous position must wrest the Scriptures of Paul’s pre-Prison writings (in the book of Acts) in order to make them line up with what is termed the Pentecostal Age, the teaching of the kingdom, the ministry of the twelve.

To reduce the ministry of Paul in the book of Acts to the proclamation of the kingdom would be tantamount to denying the special apostleship to Paul and the gospel that was ‘kept secret since the world began'(Romans 11:13, 16:25).


In order to retain their original position, other revelations, other bodies, and other dispensations are placed specifically within the Acts period in order to quarantine the ministry of Paul during the Acts transition.

The Acts 28 position must be summed up in these two propositions:

  1. Prior to Acts 28, the ministry of Paul and the apostles consisted solely of kingdom and covenantal doctrine spoken since the world began by all the prophets.
  2. After Acts 28 Paul writes exclusively of the mystery information that was not known before.
What is true and what is not

The majority of the defense for Acts 28 consists of explaining that Acts 28 is the end of God’s dealing with Israel. It is from the obvious end of God’s dealing with Israel that new beginning is assumed.

It is true that what was present at the beginning of the book of Acts is done away with by Acts 28: the offer of the kingdom, the presentation of Jesus as Messiah to the Jews, the Pentecostal signs and powers, water baptism for the remission of sins, and the partition between Jew and Gentile.

However, it does not follow that just because something ends, that something new must begin thereafter. Instead, Paul’s writings during the Acts period give evidence to the secret dispensation revealed and taught prior to Acts 28.

However, if the propositions of the Acts 28 position are true, then we would not expect to find any reference to the special dispensation given to Paul before the Prison epistles, and this is not the case.

The Mystery revealed before Acts 28

Charles Welch, an originator of the Acts 28 position, in his booklet ‘Dispensational Frontier’ writes:


  • “The territory covered by the Prison Epistles deals with a Mystery, never before revealed or made known”
Welch also distinguishes the Prison epistles, written in or after the time of Acts 28, as the exclusive source for this Mystery information ‘hitherto unrevealed’ in any of Paul’s other writings.

However, prior to the Acts 28 ‘frontier’, Acts period Pauline Scripture testifies of many mystery truths that are supposedly only reserved for the post-Acts teaching and writing.

All of these mystery truths are in contrast to what was spoken by the prophets since the world began and the teaching of the kingdom (Romans 15:8; Acts 3:21-24).There is no doubt that those who hold to the Acts 28 position have read these and many other passages. But their response to them only results in the diluting the secret of the gospel, and specific dispensational truths.

Prison epistles

Beyond these evident allusions to the ‘hidden wisdom’ in the Acts epistles, we cannot pretend that all of what was spoken in the Prison epistles was new information.

Indeed, Paul did come to ‘visions and revelations’ so that we learn things from his later ministry that was not revealed in his early ministry (2 Cor 5:1; 1 Cor 13:12; Acts 26:16).


However, this information was built upon prior revelation to Paul, and is not separate from it. The prison epistles often reference Paul’s ministry within Acts seamlessly as the same ministry and message.

Many of the truths earlier listed can be found in the teaching of the Prison epistles also.

Philippians

For example, Paul thanks God upon remembrance of the Philippians for ‘their fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now’ (Phil 1:5). This is enlightening only when we realize that Paul is writing to the Philippians from prison about his fellowship that was established at his visits to Philippi during the Acts period! (Acts 16:12, 20:6)


It is to the Philippians that Paul expounds upon the changing of our vile bodies into glorious. Paul also speaks of this information to the Corinthians prior to his imprisonment in 1 Corinthians 15.

Ephesians

Likewise the Ephesians, to whom Paul is writing from prison after Acts 28, are stated to have heard the gospel and believed it prior to Paul’s writing (Ephesians 1:13). It is not a wild assumption that they were saved before Acts 28 and even before Acts 20:24 by the preaching of the gospel of the grace of God exclusive to the ‘dispensation of grace’.


“But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God. “ – Acts 20:24


The edification gifts of Ephesians 4:11-13 would seem to match seamlessly with Pauls explanation of the building of the Body of Christ in 1 Corinthians 12:27 or Romans 12:5:


“So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.” – Romans 12:5


Timothy

Also, in his first letter to Timothy, Paul reminds Timothy of why he was left at Ephesus:

“As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,” – I Timothy 1:3


So then, by the time Paul writes Timothy, there is a body of doctrine of which Timothy was supposed to protect at Ephesus. It was for this reason that Paul left him there! It would be silly to inform Timothy to charge others to teach ‘no other doctrine’, if they were not aware of the doctrine in the first place.

Indeed, Timothy did know the doctrine before Paul wrote him. The Ephesians and Timothy who had ministered with Paul had known his doctrine for this dispensation, which was specially revealed to him from Christ even before Acts 28 (Gal 1:11-12).


Nothing new, things untrue

Reducing the mystery truth revealed to Paul solely to the Prison epistles makes a distinction where there is none in the epistles. The only basis for a distinction comes from Paul’s teaching already evidenced from within the book of Acts.

Yet, we should be reminded that it is not the purpose of the book of Acts to expound what Paul taught. Instead, its clear purpose is to show the fall of Israel so that God could have mercy upon all (Romans 11:32). In Acts we find their continued rejection of Peter, Stephen, the Holy Ghost, and eventually Paul (see The Main Point of Mid-Acts doctrine).


It can be concluded, that there are similarities between the Mid-Acts and Acts 28 position. However, the differences have greater implications than some may realize.

The Acts 28 position robs us of precious grace truths that are only found in Paul’s pre-prison epistles. However, even more detrimental is how it weakens the defense of Paul’s special apostleship and message towards those who see no difference between Paul’s doctrines with the doctrine of the twelve at Pentecost.

What is true about the Acts 28 position is not new, and what is new in the Acts 28 position regarding multiple dispensations is not true. It is true that nothing new happened at Acts 28, but many things ended.

  1. -Differences Between Acts 2, Acts 28, and Mid-Acts
 
Upvote 0

patrick jane

MAD Bible Believer
Supporter
Jun 22, 2015
2,454
1,327
55
St. Louis - Ephesians 2:6-8
Visit site
✟132,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Joint-Heirs with Christ

http://graceambassadors.com/life/joint-heirs-with-christ



By Justin Johnson

From the moment you trust in Christ, you become a member of the body of Christ.

Like any membership, there are immediate benefits. The benefits are given to you freely by your identification with Christ.

For example, did you know that if you were baptized into Christ you were crucified with Him?

“I am crucified with Christ…”- Gal 2:20


A dead person has already paid the penalty of death. This is a huge benefit, but what is more is that you are also resurrected with Christ.

“Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:” – Rom 6:8


Life is a great benefit. Eternal life is eternally beneficial. The power to live after death is God’s gift to all who receive benefits with Christ.

“For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.” – 2 Cor 13:4


Since you are receiving benefits with Christ, and Christ is seated in heavenly places, you also inherit a position there with him.

“Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:” – Ephesians 2:5-6


When Christ died and resurrected he inherited “all things” from God (Eph 1:22), so would not you receive all things as well?


“He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?” – Rom 8:37


Certainly. After all, you are with Christ and enjoy all the benefits of being a member of His body (2 Cor 6:10).


“[God has] blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:”- Eph 1:3


The Mystery of Fellowheirs

Perhaps you have noticed that all of these membership benefits in Christ are found in Paul’s epistles.

This is because God revealed to Paul the mystery that by faith in the gospel you can be fellowheirs with Christ, of the same body of Christ, and partakers of his promise in Christ (Eph 3:6).


It’s only by being a joint-heir with Christ that we have access to all of these immediate benefits (Rom 8:17).


Without being a joint-heir with Him according to the mystery, we would lack a host of riches given to his sons by grace.

Without the revelation of the mystery, we would not know the riches of the glory of His inheritance, and ours (Eph 1:18).


What do Members do?

If we have all these free benefits as joint-heirs with Christ, then what is a member of the body to do?

Being a member of the body of Christ gives you the duty of labouring together with him, and the opportunity to receive rewards for proper service.

“…every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God…” – 1 Cor 3:8-9


It may be that we suffer with him, and if you do, you will reign with him.

“If we suffer, we shall also reign with him:…” – 2 Tim 2:12


In the end, because everything we receive, whether freely or by our labour, is a result of our being joint-heirs with Christ, we are glorified with him.

“When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.” – Col 3:4



  1. -Saved by the Body of Christ
    -Your Holy Calling
    -Christ in You vs. You in Christ
    -Heirs and Joint-Heirs
    -Sin and Your Identity in Christ
    -Christ After the Flesh
    -6 Reasons I Need Christ Every Day
 
Upvote 0

patrick jane

MAD Bible Believer
Supporter
Jun 22, 2015
2,454
1,327
55
St. Louis - Ephesians 2:6-8
Visit site
✟132,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Calvin’s Election Doesn’t Work


Calvin’s Election Doesn’t Work


By Justin Johnson

Calvinism doesn’t work. I’ve tried.

No one knows if they are the elect unless they study books on Calvinism. Then everybody thinks they are.

I tried sharing the message of God’s irresistible grace, but it seems that some people are able to resist it. Calvin would suggest that God’s grace must not be given to those people.

They will be the recipients of God’s wrath. After all, someone has to take it since it was all according to God’s will.

I tried to encourage the preaching of the cross to dying souls in dangerous lands, but the young Calvinist reminded me that if they were truly part of the elect God would give them saving faith.

As for the rest, well, there are some people God just hates. Like Esau, right?

So after I put it all in God’s hands and considered how I could best impact the world for my Lord, I started to pray.

First, I prayed for worldwide healing, but realized God had already chosen how everyone would die. Second, I prayed for a vision for my country, but then remembered that God in his sovereignty had chosen each ruler throughout history and that my country was exactly where God wanted it to be.

Lastly, I prayed that God would alter his sovereign will for the salvation of my family members who were obviously not part of the elect. If he could find pleasure in supplying grace to those who were acting according to their total depravity and find mercy upon these sinners, then that would be an event most glorious.

Yet, it seemed that the predestined situation was hopeless.

And this is the system created by Calvin’s election. A system that is without hope to the predestined sinner, without grace to those who need it most, without personal responsibility to the saint, and without the preaching of the cross for salvation.

When I turned to God’s word I found all these things: hope for the sinner; grace to all men; personal responsibility to choose; and the necessity of the cross. God’s word forced me away from Calvinism.

It must not be in God’s sovereign will that I be a Calvinist.

I found election to be a Bible doctrine, but Calvinism was not.

Biblical election concerns God choosing Christ to die for the sins responsible to man’s account. God chose to create man. Man chose to reject God. God chose to die for man. It is now man’s responsibility to choose.

Choose Christ.

 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

patrick jane

MAD Bible Believer
Supporter
Jun 22, 2015
2,454
1,327
55
St. Louis - Ephesians 2:6-8
Visit site
✟132,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
The Greatness of God


The Greatness of God


By Justin Johnson

God is great. His greatness is not because he predetermines the details of our lives. His greatness resides in his character and his actions.

“ For I know that the LORD is great, and that our Lord is above all gods. Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.” – Psalm 135:5-6

The “great” manipulator

It is admirable for our Calvinist friends to seek the exaltation of God in their doctrine of God’s sovereign control over every thought, word, and deed, but I fear their doctrine has unintended consequences that do not exalt the Almighty.

According to their doctrine of sovereignty (a term not in the Bible), God’s greatness is derived from his absolute manipulation of the circumstances in our lives. They explain that if man is able to act outside the manipulation of God, then God’s plan can be thwarted by man and God would lose his greatness. They ask, “What comfort is there in a God that does not manipulate every circumstance of your life?”

A rigged system

This flawed view of God sounds like a board game I played once when I was younger. My opponent was far inferior to me in skill but he had sovereign control of the pieces before we played. As he laid out the pieces he strategically placed them so that he would win.

He then established the rules so that I could not thwart his goal. As we finished the game my opponent won and he received the glory. After all, he had created a system that would conclude in his ultimate victory.

This does not make him great! The system was rigged! It does not magnify God’s greatness merely because he has absolute control. Any child can wield absolute control for their own glory at the expense of damning millions while arbitrarily favoring others.

God is greater than all of us

The Bible declares God’s greatness, dominion, and power. What makes him great is not that he manipulates every circumstance of our lives. It is his character and his works that make him great.

He does not cheat, steal, lie, or deceive (Num 23:19). He is great in kindness, mercy, love, and grace (Psalm 117:2, Eph 2:4, and Rom 5:8, 21). His power is mighty and his works “terrible” (Psalm 47:2). His manifold wisdom is enough to thwart the enemies’ plans through his purpose hidden in Christ before the world began (2 Tim 1:9, Eph 3:9-11).

If my childhood game was not manipulated and my opponent won through superior skill then he truly would have been greater than I. God’s greatness is proven through his character and actions.

“Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.” – Psalm 104:1

God’s great victory

Where is the comfort? It comes from a greater God who is far superior to the intellect of man and Satan. He has achieved victory by his greatness, he did it in secret, and now it is revealed for his glory!

“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” – Titus 2:13-14

The fact that this great mystery had to be kept a secret tells us that God is the victor throughout history because of his wisdom and not because he rigged the system (1 Cor 2:7-8).
 
Upvote 0

patrick jane

MAD Bible Believer
Supporter
Jun 22, 2015
2,454
1,327
55
St. Louis - Ephesians 2:6-8
Visit site
✟132,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Saved by the Body of Christ

Saved by the Body of Christ


By Justin Johnson

Without Christ giving his body to die for my sins and raising his body from the dead, I could not be saved.

This salvation is not offered to me through a chosen nation, an anointed priest, or a special covenant. According to the great mystery of Christ, this salvation is possible because I am made a member of his body.

“That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel” – Ephesians 3:6

Every one who is saved today is a member of the body of Christ, which is now called the church.

“…and gave [Christ] to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body…” – Ephesians 1:22-23

I am saved by the body of Christ. Salvation is not found outside the body of Christ. It is impossible to be saved today without being in the body of Christ.

“For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body…” – 1 Corinthians 12:12-13

Salvation is found in the body of Christ, because it is in the body of Christ that we are joined with Christ in his crucifixion and resurrection.

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death…For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection” – Romans 6:3-5

“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me…” – Galatians 2:20

All spiritual blessings I now receive are a result of my being joined to Christ in his body (Eph 1:3). God’s calling and position given to me is in heaven, because I am joined to the body of Christ which has been called up to heaven where it now sits (Eph 2:6; Col 3:1-2).

Christ is the heir of God. I am an heir of God by the body of Christ, because I am joined to Christ.

“Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. “ – Galatians 4:7

“That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:” – Ephesians 3:6

Being joined to His body gives me salvation, a calling, an inheritance, and power (Eph 1:17-23). Moreover, I receive it all freely and graciously! This is the great mystery revealed to the apostle Paul.

If I do not have all spiritual blessings, hold a heavenly position, a joint-inheritance, nor a complete position in Christ, then I am not joined to the body of Christ.

If I am not joined to the body of Christ, then I am not saved. Without the body of Christ there is no salvation today.

This is the great mystery revealed to the apostle Paul (Eph 3:3-4).

Anyone who thinks I can fall out of salvation, I must work for my blessings or inheritance, or that my salvation is joined to a nation, priest, or covenant does not understand this great mystery of the body of Christ nor how we are joined to it by grace through faith.

I am saved by the body of Christ. I am sealed by the Spirit of promise. I am enriched and inherited by the Father of glory, as a member of the body of His Son.

“ For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.” – Ephesians 5:30

“This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.” – Ephesians 5:32

Praise God.

 
Upvote 0

food4thought

Loving truth
Supporter
Jul 9, 2002
2,929
725
50
Watervliet, MI
✟383,729.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
That is funny.

How does Paul's preaching differ from what is recorded in the Gospels?

It don't!

Bottom line.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Hi Deacon Dean. Paul preached in Galatians that the Church is not under the Law, yet Jesus said in Matthew 5 that those who are least in the Kingdom teach so... It seems to me that if we are to maintain the integrity of Scripture and not call Paul a heretic, we must admit that the good news preached by Jesus and the 12 during the time of Jesus' life is different from the good news preached after His death and resurrection. I have no axe to grind in this discussion, as I am still trying to work out what kind of dispensationalist I am. Currently I lean towards Acts 2, but the Epistle of James has me wondering if maybe Acts 15 dispensationalism might be correct. I respect your opinion on these matters and wonder if you might take the time to respond even though this is an old post of yours.

Thanks in advance;
Michael

Edit-- You can PM me if you don't want to post in this thread anymore.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: patrick jane
Upvote 0

DeaconDean

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον
Jul 19, 2005
22,183
2,677
61
Gastonia N.C. (Piedmont of N.C.)
✟100,334.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Hi Deacon Dean. Paul preached in Galatians that the Church is not under the Law, yet Jesus said in Matthew 5 that those who are least in the Kingdom teach so... It seems to me that if we are to maintain the integrity of Scripture and not call Paul a heretic, we must admit that the good news preached by Jesus and the 12 during the time of Jesus' life is different from the good news preached after His death and resurrection. I have no axe to grind in this discussion, as I am still trying to work out what kind of dispensationalist I am. Currently I lean towards Acts 2, but the Epistle of James has me wondering if maybe Acts 15 dispensationalism might be correct. I respect your opinion on these matters and wonder if you might take the time to respond even though this is an old post of yours.

Thanks in advance;
Michael

Edit-- You can PM me if you don't want to post in this thread anymore.

PM sent.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: patrick jane
Upvote 0

patrick jane

MAD Bible Believer
Supporter
Jun 22, 2015
2,454
1,327
55
St. Louis - Ephesians 2:6-8
Visit site
✟132,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Three Troubling Pauline Passages


Three Troubling Pauline Passages



By Justin Johnson


The most amazing statements on salvation by grace without works in the entire Bible are found in Paul’s epistles. What liberation it is for sinners to learn that God offers salvation freely by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ (Eph 2:8-9; Gal 5:1).


There is nothing you do to deserve or earn salvation from God.

Nevertheless, there are a few Pauline passages that repeatedly trouble new believers as to whether their sins can negate what God has given them by grace.

For the religious minded fruit inspectors 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Ephesians 5:5-6, and Galatians 5:21 become tests of salvation, and when you fail the test one of these explanations is given:


“You were never a Christian in the first place.”
“A Christian would never do these things.”
“Faith without works is dead.”
“You need to repent and get right (again) with God.”


Not Tests of Salvations

Let’s be clear. If these three passages are talking about conditions or qualifications for salvation then there will be no one but Christ in the kingdom of God.

A look at the wide scope of sins mentioned in these passages disqualifies all but the self-righteous in their own delusions.

It would also mean that your salvation by grace is not through faith, but through your continuance in doing good works the rest of your life. This described salvation under Israel’s covenant relationship, but not in this dispensation of grace (Mark 13:13; Lev 18:5).


No, these passages are not tests of salvation or membership in the body of Christ.

Not Conditions of Inheritance

To avoid the obvious problem with making them tests of salvation, it is sometimes suggested that these three passages put conditions and qualifications on your inheritance, blessings, or levels of glory in heaven.

While it is true that the work of the saints will be judged by Christ for reward or loss, these passages can not be referring to that either.

1 Cor 6:10 says that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom, it does not say they will not have as many rewards or will “suffer loss” as does 1 Cor 3:15 at the judgment of the saints.


Eph 5:5 makes it clear that those sinners do not have “any inheritance”. It is not lesser inheritance, but any inheritance at all. This would be contrary to Eph 1:3, Eph 1:18, and Eph 3:6 that describe the saved having “all spiritual blessings”, “the riches of the glory of this inheritance”, and as being “fellowheirs” according to the mystery.


While these passages are surely intended to condemn wrong thinking and actions among the saints, they cannot be referring to believers who have been promised an inheritance by grace even if we do suffer loss for poor workmanship at the judgment seat of Christ.

A question remains. Why is Paul warning believers about what happens to unbelievers who are living in their flesh?

Understanding Your Position

Something often overlooked in Paul’s instructions to the saints is the difference between our position and our condition. It has also been referred to as our standing and state, salvation and service.


Your salvation, standing, or position in Christ is received by grace through faith. This new position in the body of Christ has changed your identity, that is, who you are.

You are no longer a sinner, but a saint (Rom 5:19). You are no longer in Adam, but in Christ (Rom 5:17). You are no longer a servant of sin, but a servant of righteousness (Rom 6:17-18).


This new identity is like the job title you are given on the first day of work. You have not done any work, but you have been given a new identity, you sit in a new position.

What would happen if on day two in your new position you were doing your old job and not your new one? No doubt, your boss would remind you that you no longer hold that position, and need to do the work becoming of your new position.

Whether or not you are operating according to the privileges, benefits, or description of your new position is called your condition, service, or walk. It concerns your performance in Christ.

All three troubling passages are trying to correct the performance, walk, or service of believers by reminding them of who they are and who they are not.

“Remember your position. Remember who you are, not who you were. Walk according to who you are now in Christ.”

Knowing your position will put these trouble passages in the proper perspective. Let’s look at each one.

Trouble Passage #1) 1Corinthians 6:9-10


“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither … shall inherit the kingdom of God.” – 1 Corinthians 6:9-10


This is very clear that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Though you had been in the position of an unrighteous person before you were saved, you have now, after trusting the gospel, been made the righteousness of God in Christ by grace through faith (2 Cor 5:21).


Notice the verse right after the troubling passage which distinguishes what the Corinthians were with what they are now in Christ.

“ And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. “ – 1 Corinthians 6:11


They were unrighteous, but now they are justified and sanctified. What they were was not what they are now in Christ, and it had nothing to do with their behavior. The reason Paul condemns the unrighteous is that the Corinthians were acting like them as if it were acceptable behavior in their new position.

“Stop doing unrighteous things. That is not who you are anymore! Those things are condemnable.”

Trouble Passage #2) Ephesians 5:5-6


“…hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.“ – Ephesians 5:5-6


What a terrifying verse, and rightly so! Sin deserves all wrath, and the wrath of God is revealed upon all sinners (Rom 1:18).


The question remains are you a child of disobedience or not? Is that your title? Is that your position?

The religious minded would have you believe that if you disobey, then that means you are a child of disobedience. That was the case under the law, but no longer under grace. Now, you can be justified by grace through faith in Christ without works and without the law. This is the mystery of Christ!

Notice the verses immediately following the condemnation of the children of disobedience.

“Be not ye therefore partakers with them.” – Ephesians 5:7


Don’t partake with them? Who are they? Not the saved Ephesians. But why?

“For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light…” – Ephesians 5:8


They were children of disobedience and darkness, but now they arechanged. They have a new position in Christ! Every saved member of the body of Christ is a child of light, and Paul teaches them to walk according to their new job description received and secured by grace without works.

“Walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called” – Ephesians 4:1


Trouble Passage #3) Galatians 5:21


“…that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” – Galatians 5:21


Like the previous two passages, knowing your position puts this troubling passage in context as well.

The Galatians had received the Spirit and salvation through faith, but they were being persuaded to walk under the law. There is a difference between living in and walking in. There is a difference between position and condition.

The Galatians thought the only way to avoid the condemnation of sin after salvation was to go back under the law, but the law brought condemnation. Paul exhorts them in the better way, “Walk in the Spirit” (Gal 5:16).


“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.” – Galatians 5:18


If they were truly saved by grace through faith, then they do not live in the flesh, but in the Spirit and not under the law.

If there is one thing we cannot be condemned for under grace, it is the work of our flesh. The power of the law to condemn the flesh was removed when it was crucified with Christ (Gal 2:20; Gal 5:24; Rom 6:6; Rom 7:4).


The admonition Paul gives the Galatians in chapter 5 is found in Gal 5:25:


“ If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”

But how do you know if you are walking after the Spirit or after the flesh?

They could tell whether their flesh or the Spirit was winning the war for their walk by what comes out of them. The works of the flesh were manifest, and are condemned by God. The fruit of the Spirit is where there is no condemnation (Rom 8:1; Gal 5:23).


If the Galatians received the Spirit by faith, then they lived by the Spirit. They needed to walk after the Spirit in order to bear the fruit of the Spirit. Any attempt to walk under the law would strengthen their condemned flesh, bring condemnation, and manifest the condemnable works of the flesh.

Conclusion

These passages have troubled grace believers for a while and it is time to set them at rest. They may be difficult but not impossible. There is no reason to sacrifice the riches of God’s grace by neglecting to remember who you are in Christ and how you were saved.

Don’t forget who Christ made you, and how that was possible. It is the cross of Christ that did all the work necessary for your salvation, and the power of the resurrection of Christ that guarantees you a heavenly place with Christ.

The response to sin for the believer is to stop living like who you were, and start living according to who you are in Christ by faith.

Now it is our duty to live up to the high calling we have received freely through Him.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

patrick jane

MAD Bible Believer
Supporter
Jun 22, 2015
2,454
1,327
55
St. Louis - Ephesians 2:6-8
Visit site
✟132,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
I Conquer All (Through Christ)


I Conquer All (Through Christ)


By Justin Johnson

The old hymn ‘I Surrender All’ is over one hundred years old. The lyrics were written by a man who after years of struggle surrendered his potentially successful career as an artist to be an evangelist.
Though I love the tune and the holiness it often engenders I think the lyrics fall short of the great victory we have in Christ.

Romans 8:37 says that we are not surrendering. Rather we are “more than conquerors through him that loved us”.

This great victory was not always available. Under the law the Psalms and prophets spoke eloquently about the great sacrifices the righteous would make to God.

The law itself presented the righteous life as one fraught with prohibitions and limitations on food, clothing, and marriage. Lives of millions of animals were surrendered to God. Great riches were offered to God through the temple.

Gentiles who became members of Israel were circumcised and had to stop eating bacon and shaving their face among other things.

The law was holy and righteous but its purpose was to show that we are not. We have nothing we can offer God that he needs. Man is filled with sin. We were enemies of God, foolish, disobedient, and deceived.

Many think that if they just surrender their hearts’ greatest desires of success, money, power, and pleasure that God will consider their great sacrifice and will then pour out his Spirit upon them and grant his love and salvation.

This could not be more wrong.
“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” – Romans 5:8
It is not about our surrender but his surrender at the cross. It was Christ who took the form of a man and was obedient unto death at the cross. Compared with his surrender ours is a shame.
Speaking of shame, it would be a great mistake to think that the Christian life is solely about surrender.

His death is only half of the story. The rest is told in the ultimate victory over sin and death by his resurrection!

It is the song of victory over sin and death that we should be singing about! Through Christ we have been given forgiveness of sins, free justification, sanctification by the Spirit, and eternal life! Sin has no dominion over us; death where is your sting?

If you get a promotion at work you would not say you surrendered your old job. You would declare of the victory of earning such an honor.

Now consider that the promotion was granted not by your own efforts but by the work of another. This would cast ‘ I surrender’ far from your mind as your attitude would be thankfulness.

Giving up sinful activity and selfish interests is always a good thing. But if your focus is on surrender you are going to struggle with victory. Take your eyes off of who you were and where you have been and look up towards who you are in Christ and where you are going.

You have been crucified with Christ! There is nothing else to surrender. It is finished.
Concentrate on the great victory that has been achieved for you and you can become more than conquerors through him that loved us.

——————————————————————————
 
Upvote 0

Berl

Active Member
Jan 22, 2018
67
19
68
Missoula
✟5,996.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So Jesus replied, "Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. Same Spirit in Paul's messaged doing works through the Son , same message of Spirit dwelling in man that Paul taught through OT characters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: patrick jane
Upvote 0

patrick jane

MAD Bible Believer
Supporter
Jun 22, 2015
2,454
1,327
55
St. Louis - Ephesians 2:6-8
Visit site
✟132,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Can We Lose Our Salvation By Grace?

http://graceambassadors.com/salvation/can-we-lose-our-salvation



In order for us to lose something we must have the responsibility for keeping it secure. Otherwise, we did not lose it, someone else did. We must be very careful as we study the Scripture to sort the mail according to whom it was written. We must not read into a verse what is not there, and must interpret a verse in its proper context. This is what makes dispensational Bible study so helpful to our understanding God’s will and purpose.



In regards to our salvation in the dispensation of grace, we can clearly see that we receive through Paul the message of ‘salvation by grace’. Romans is a wonderful book to illuminate our understanding of salvation by grace in this age.



We learn in Romans 1-3 that men are desperately wicked. In fact, Paul calls them reprobate, sinners, wicked, evil, and deserving of anguish and God’s wrath. Every man, Jew and Gentile has broken God’s law of righteousness and is guilty before a just God who will judge our works in this life, whether they be good or evil.



It is through the use of appealing to man’s conscious and the law of God that Paul identifies every man unworthy and incapable of obtaining righteousness through their own efforts. He concludes in Romans 3:10 by saying, ‘There is none righteous, no not one. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.’


Since God demands perfect righteousness for salvation and eternal life, we are all condemned to death and judgment in hell.



However, Paul is given a special revelation from God that explains that now we can receive righteousness and salvation apart from the law (Gal 1:11, 12). In fact, the purpose of the law was never to save anyone, but to show that they were guilty.

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.” – Romans 3:19


The law was to bring the ‘knowledge of sin’. But now the righteousness of God can only come through faith in Jesus Christ.

“Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:” – Romans 3:22


Today, we are justified ‘freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus’ (Romans 3:24).



Knowing how we obtained our salvation is crucial to understanding whether we can lose our salvation. Paul clearly teaches that our salvation is by faith in the righteousness of Jesus Christ who was made to be our substitution for death, sin, and judgment (2 Cor 5:21, Romans 3:25, Romans 3:23). Since he paid our fine, and we trust in Christ, God can fairly declare us righteous and give us salvation (Eph 1:13).



Trying to ‘keep’ our salvation

The reason that God sent Christ to die on the cross for our sins, was because we could not live lives worthy of obtaining righteousness ourselves.


Why then would we think that once we are saved, we can now live lives worthy of God’s righteous judgment without Christ?



Paul speaks to the Galatians about this issue in Galatians 3:3 and 5:4. After having received the grace of God for salvation, the Galatians were now trying to go back under the law to live their lives for God. Paul says ‘Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.’



This seems to be a severe statement but is repeated in 1 Corinthians 1:17 to those who were debating over Paul’s baptism. Paul replied regarding these rituals,

“For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” – I Corinthians 1:17


Paul repeatedly teaches that it is not by our own works of righteousness that we are saved. If it were by our works then Christ died in vain! It follows that if we are not saved by works of righteousness then we can not lose our salvation because of a lack of them.



Because we are saved by God’s grace, the sole responsibility for producing the works meet for our salvation lies upon Christ and the efficacy of his death on the cross. Our faith alone would be of no effect for salvation only if God was not able to fulfill that which he promised (Romans 4:21). This of course is unbelief of the first degree!



The whole basis of our salvation is by faith in Christ’s full payment for sins (Ephesians 2:8, Romans 3:22)!



Therefore, if we are saved by grace and then determine that we can lose our justified status simply by not acting obediently or following after righteousness, then we are in essence rejecting the cross, ignoring what Christ came to do! We are also denying our present position in our crucified flesh combating its temptations daily.



As Paul told the Galatians, ‘Christ is become of no effect unto you’. You would have just as much success trying to save yourself without the cross as you would trying to stay saved without the grace of God operating on your behalf.



This discussion will most likely bring up many other questions that you should also find responded to on our question page.



The topic of what happens in salvation is an important topic shrouded with confusion by the powers of darkness of this world. If there are questions that are not answered cleary in this article or on our question page, please submit them through our online form.



Understanding what Christ did on the cross for you is the key to changing your life for eternity! Without the grace of God, every man would have no answer for God on judgment day, but would spend eternity in the lake of fire. Don’t rest until you know that you are saved by the grace of God and have eternity secured through the blood of Christ.

The question should not be ‘Can we lose our salvation by grace?’ Instead it should be, ‘Am I saved by my trust in God’s grace?’

“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”- Gal 2:21


  1. -Are There Many Ways To Salvation?
    -Use It or Lose It
    -What Is the Function of the Law?
    -By Faith and Through Faith
    -Did Paul Preach A Different Gospel?
    -Now That I Am Saved By Grace, May I Sin?
    -Man Always Saved by God’s Grace
 
Upvote 0

patrick jane

MAD Bible Believer
Supporter
Jun 22, 2015
2,454
1,327
55
St. Louis - Ephesians 2:6-8
Visit site
✟132,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Did Peter Preach Paul’s Gospel at Pentecost?



By Justin Johnson

Before his death, Jesus told the twelve that he had to die and that he would rise on the third day. Looking back upon this passage we see this as Jesus speaking of an event that would change the history of the world. However, it is unquestionable that the disciples were ignorant of its meaning.

“Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem,…And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken. “ – Luke 18:31-34

After his crucifixion, instead of anxiously waiting his resurrection, the apostles were still ignorant, disheartened at the death of their redeemer, and did not even at first believe the testimony of his resurrection (Mark 16:14, Luke 24:19-24).

It was not until after his resurrection that Jesus appeared to the apostles and ‘opened their understanding’ to the scriptures regarding the necessity of the death, burial, and resurrection (Luke 24:44-47).

However, we must be careful not to equate this teaching of the cross to the understanding that was given to Paul concerning the meaning of the cross today.

As we will see from Peter’s testimony, the apostles did not preach faith in the cross as the means of salvation. Rather the necessity of the crucifixion was revealed as it pertained to the prophetic program and the covenants – the massacre of an unworthy lamb.

Peter’s Murder Indictment

After their understanding was opened in Luke 24, forty days of teaching from the resurrected Jesus, and the supernatural empowerment of the Holy Ghost, surely the glories of the cross and the atoning work of the blood would be expounded by Peter at Pentecost.


Yet, Peter did not preach the cross as a means of salvation, but as a murder indictment against the men of Judea and Israel. Peter testified how that Jesus was approved of God by his works.

“Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: “ – Acts 1:22

Yet it was to the shame of Israel that their long-awaited Messiah would come only to be crucified by their wicked hands.

“Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:” – Acts 1:23

Peter continues to explain how that God raised Jesus up to sit on the throne as a fulfillment of the promise given to David. So, then Peter again summarizes by saying:

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.” – Acts 2:36

What an accusation and message of indictment presented against Israel! It is no wonder that many were ‘pricked in their heart’ (Acts 1:37)

‘Repent and Be Baptized’

Subsequent to the appeal of these frightened men at hearing their egregious mistake Peter tells them what to do.

“Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. “ – Acts 2:38

Suprisingly, Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, does not mention the free redemption by the grace of God as Paul does in Romans 3. Instead he gives them nothing new – repent and be baptized.

We may remember that this was the message that was taught by John the Baptist and the twelve while they were still ignorant of the cross.

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins” – Mark 1:4

To the message of the baptism of repentance, Peter simply adds the promised gift of the Holy Ghost that has now been sent from Christ in heaven.

Done In Ignorance

In the following chapter Peter again is preaching to Israel and again accuses them of murdering the Holy One. However, this time he drops the charge due to ignorant manslaughter.

“But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. “ – Acts 3:14-15

“And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. “ – Acts 3:17

Just as Jesus prayed to God to ‘forgive them they know not what they do’, Peter offers this forgiveness by the mercy of God towards Israel (Luke 24:34).

So then, Israel has a second chance opportunity to believe Jesus is the Christ as Peter continues:

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:” – Acts 3:19-20

It is here that we gain the crucial element to answer our question, did Peter preach the cross for salvation?

Peter vs. Paul

We have read where before Peter offered the baptismal remission of sins through repentance (Acts 2:38). Here Peter says that their sins will be blotted out at the future times of refreshing.

In neither instance does he offer faith in the blood for righteousness. Nor are his offers of salvation unconditional or free, but are accompanied with baptisms and repentance.

In contrast Paul preaches the cross ‘according to the revelation of the mystery’ not revealed or known to Peter (Rom 16:25, Eph 3:4).

Paul preaches salvation to a man who ‘worketh not’, receives atonement immediately, and is separate from the message of baptism taught by John the Baptist (Rom 4:5, Rom 5:11, 1 Cor 1:17).

Furthermore, whereas Peter preaches the cross as a murder indictment, filled with shame and guilt, Paul preaches glory in the cross!

“But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.” – Gal 6:14

It was this glorious message of salvation based upon the necessary death of Jesus by the cross that was kept hidden from the foundation of the world until revealed to Paul!

“Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.” – I Corinthians 2:8

If it were revealed or made available to the evil princes of this world or the Prince of darkness, he would not have plotted the death of the promised Messiah.


Peter’s Teaching

Peter testified to what was revealed to him as far back as Mathew 16 – that Jesus was the Christ. It was this same Christ that was crucified, and would return to seek vengeance.

For salvation, Peter taught belief in the name of Jesus as the Messiah, repentance, and baptism for the remission for sins.

What is left conspicuously absent, or more properly hidden, from Peter at Pentecost is the glory of the cross as a redemptive act necessary for the salvation of us all! It is this manifold wisdom of God that was kept hid in God until revealed to us through Paul.

“And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God” – Eph 3:9-10
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Stone-n-Steel
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

patrick jane

MAD Bible Believer
Supporter
Jun 22, 2015
2,454
1,327
55
St. Louis - Ephesians 2:6-8
Visit site
✟132,528.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Does Right Division Cause Church Division?





How important is it to make a stand for mid-acts Pauline dispensational right division? When people are first shown the truth of the Bible and the widespread error that is being taught, they realize that if they make a stand for sound doctrine they may be causing division among an already divided Body of Christ.


The typical response is:

  • “How important is standing for sound doctrine when many churches and organizations do so much good in the community and the world. Wouldn’t we help more people if we simply remained silent and operated out of peace and love instead of divisive doctrine? After all, we can accomplish a lot more if we work together.“

This ecumenical motivation is well-intentioned when it desires to see the expanding the influence of the church. However, the expanstion comes at the cost of a very special commodity – sound doctrine. Ignoring the supremacy of doctrine is ignoring God’s order for peace.



Peace will ultimately reign forever on earth, but only when the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ, returns to establish it:



“Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.” – Isaiah 9:7



Notice that the worldwide peace is established by judgment, not by compromise. That is, the whole world will know the truth after they are judged by the standard of Truth, God himself. Only after truth is instituted will worldwide peace be established.


God is never willing to sacrifice truth for peace, doctrine for compromise.



Jesus himself, realizing that truth and doctrine comes before peace said:



“Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:” – Luke 12:51



In the dispensation of Grace, Paul instructs us to avoid those which cause division “contrary to the doctrine”:



“Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.” – Romans 16:17



Again in 1 Timothy 6:4-5, Paul instructs us to withdraw from those who consent not to the doctrine:



“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;He is proud, knowing nothing, … from such withdraw thyself. ” – 1 Timothy 6:3-5



It is only after he teaches the doctrine of Ephesians chapters 1,2, and 3 that Paul says in chapter 4:3:



“Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.” – Ephesians 4:3



It is first that Paul instructs Timothy to teach “no other doctrine”:



“As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,” – 1 Timothy 1:3



Then after this strong charge, he tells Timothy to “lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty” in chapter 2:2.



So then, it is very important to understand that we should not become argumentative, angry, hateful, or divisive. However, to follow God’s order for peace, we are charged to defend sound doctrine. God’s peace comes from like-minded believers who unite through an understanding of God’s Word. Thus we are instructed to:



“Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.” – 2 Tim 1:13
 
Upvote 0