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Mid -Acts Dispensational Doctrine

Discussion in 'Dispensationalism' started by patrick jane, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. ortho

    ortho New Member

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    Yes. See you later.
     
  2. ortho

    ortho New Member

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    Hello that was a good question, did anyone answer it for you?
     
  3. Stone-n-Steel

    Stone-n-Steel Active Member Supporter

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    I did not see in the posts that I read a mention of:

    Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

    This should be a flag that the twelve did not preach the cross as a good work for all of man since the kingdom being restored to Israel would not include non-jews as equals.
     
  4. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    I always saw that passage as a sure fire refutation of a-millennialism and preterism.

    I think it shows the dispensational view (in general) is correct with regards to God is not finished with national Israel and the disciples after spending 40 days with our Lord came away with that understanding.

    Now our Lord did command the disciples to preach the gospel of His death and resurrection before His ascension in Luke 24:

    Luke 24: NASB

    44Jesus said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.” 45Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures.

    46And He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things.

    49And behold, I am sending the promise of My Father upon you. But remain in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
     
  5. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    Christ was a Jew, the Bible was written by Jews.
    The Old testament was a foreshadow of Christ.
    And claiming only the Pauline epistles are for Gentiles only is idolatry.
    God's Word is a everlasting Coveanut for all mankind.
    Noah prophesied that Jew and Gentile would dwell together, this was when he cursed the generations of Ham.
    Noah said :

    Genesis 9: 27. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

    How does anyone concoct a theology that removes most of God's Word and keeps the writing of one apostle.
    Paul's teaching is clear on no difference in Christ due to race.
    Paul is clear that ALL Schripture is for Christians , and Peter brought the Gentiles the Gospel .

    This is pure man made dogma and has no kinship with the Word of God.
     
  6. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    Christ died one time, for all mankind.
    Paul taught the same Gospel the other Apostles taught.

    Galatians 2: 14. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 15. We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

    If a man thinks the other Apostles, taught salvation through the works of the law, you make the Blood of Christ of no use.
    Paul preached salvation to Jews as well, if a man does not like some of God's Word get over it.
    There is a Hell, it is a destination for anyone who refuses the salvation of Christ.
    Does this dispensationism teach another way for Jews ?
    Does it make the Cross not for All?

    This man made doctrine is outlandish, it is not a condition in Gods Word , just walk away.
    Like I am no need reply, just walk away.
     
  7. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    In other words, you read (red) into a thing, took it to be what had been asserted by us Dispys, and followed that with your responding...to what you read (red) into it.

    Lol, give yourself a big fat "f."

    Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

    Because Romans 5:6-9 - in each...our stead.
     
  8. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    Well if you have a logical reason for creating another dispensation, tell me so we both know.
     
  9. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    The Word of God is not about clues to presumption, Peter preached salvation to the Gentiles.
    Not Paul.
    Paul began his commission much later.

    Acts 10: 44. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47. Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48. And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

    The only dispensation then and now is the Church age.
    Following this will be the end of days and the return of Christ.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  10. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    If my gramnner bothers you that is straining on a knat and swallowing a Camel.
    This butchering of God's Word and snarky comments in doing so is in far greater error.

    One of the dispensation people disrupted our meeting at Church with this nonsense.
    That is why I came back here.
     
  11. ac28

    ac28 Well-Known Member

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    Before and after Ac 10, there is no record of any of the 12 ever preaching anything to any Gentile. Therefore, we must assume that no gentiles were preached to by the 12. In Ac 10, it took 3 visions before Peter would minister to Cornelius. He obviously hated every minute of it.

    "Church age" is a fake, unBiblical term, coined by denominational preachers who preach all-Israel Acts doctrine in the 1000s of Gentile synagogues. The fact is that the Gentile church of today, found only in Paul's epistles written after Acts, is totally different than the now defunct all-Israel church in Acts, which disappeared at the same time Israel was set aside in Ac 28:24-27, when Paul pronounced total spiritual blindness on Israel through Isa 6:9-10. Actually, when Israel was set aside, everything during Acts, all of which pertained to Israel only, was also set aside, until this 2000 year Gentile period is over and Israel is back on the scene -2063 is my guess.

    The greatest proof of these 2 churches being different is that they had totally different callings. The calling all during Acts was the New Jerusalem (Gal 4:26 & Heb 12). the all-Israel city that comes down out of heaven and attaches to the New Earth - permanently, as far as we're told, The occupants of the New Jerusalem will make up Christ's Bride. The new church in Paul's after-Acts epistles have a calling of the highest heaven, where Christ now sits at the right hand of God - compare Eph 1:20 (Christ) and Eph 2:6 (Us). We in this new Church are Christ's actual Body, Eph 5:30, "For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones", where Christ is the Head. We, Christ's body, are part of the Bridegroom, not the Bride
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  12. Stone-n-Steel

    Stone-n-Steel Active Member Supporter

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    I usually get a blank stare when I bring it up. As they have never seen it. Then, they move on and continue where they left off. I still keep my hopes up.

     
  13. Stone-n-Steel

    Stone-n-Steel Active Member Supporter

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    I'm not sure what the Veteran tag means but in my mind I put Acts 10:28 with 11:19 and consider Acts 15:7 to come to the conclusion that Peter did not minister much to the Gentiles. Gal 2:9 seals the deal with me.

     
  14. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    Well personally I'm tired of participating in couched discussions.
    It's obvious nothing said will change your point of view.
    I have watched young Christians bounce from one theology to the next, but what I have learned is once they get on a theology they have to bounce themselves off and move to somthing else.
    So God Bless and keep you.
     
  15. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    Well I consider the Church age to be the time between Christ's asending to The Father, and the end of time as we know it upon His return.
    I could be wrong on the terminology, if so I stand corrected.
    There were Gentiles who were patriarchs in the Old Testament.
    Rahab and the crimision cord was a prophecy of Christ, and the Gentile believers.
    In the Bloodline of Christ you will find Rahab the Harlot.
    This was a sign Christ Blood was sinless and of the Father.

    Refer to my responce to the OP.
    I simply do not care to struggle about this doctrine.

    In parting I do have one question:
    Did this thelogy originate among the Baptist?
    I know Schofeild was a forerunner and others years ago.
     
  16. ac28

    ac28 Well-Known Member

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    Everything I said originated in the Bible. Unlike you and about 99% of Christendom. I try very hard to obey 2Tim 2:15 and rightly divide God's Word of truth. If I accomplish this, I am said to be approved unto God and feel no nedd to feel ashamed. To understand the NT, obedience of 2Tim 2:15 is the #1 most important thing in the Bible to master. To master it, you MUST correctly cut and remove everything given to Israel that you have erroneously been taught by Christendom belongs to you. Besides your faith and salvation, the only place you'll find ANYTHING ever given to you, as a Gentile not tied into Israel, in any way, is in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. The other 59 books are 100% Israel. They are all written FOR your learning, reproof, etc., but there is nothing in them about YOUR Hope or Calling or what your future holds. No group in any of those all-Israel books ever had a chance of going to Heaven. Search and see.

    The Greek word translated "church" is a generic term meaning an assembly of like minded people. The pagan silversmith in Ac 19 were called by the same word and, therefore were a "church". It is very bad practice to think of the word church in the NT as being anything close to the denominational Jewish synagogues that teach all-Jewish doctrine to unsuspecting Gentiles and call themselves "Churches" today.

    Starting at Gen 12, I know there were individual Gentiles in the OT that were blessed, but I know of none that were not blessed THROUGH Israel, in some way. Today, there is no Israel, in God's eyes. They were set aside in Ac 28:25-27, for disbelief in Christ, when Paul pronounced the curse of ISA 6:9-10 against them, for the 7th and last time in the Bible. At that point, they became totally blinded, spiritually. That condition still exists and will probably exist for another 45 years (my guess), until this present 2000 year period of calling out saved Gentiles and those few Jews who believe in Christ, to occupy Heaven, itself, is over. The people that will occupy the all-Israel New Jerusalem, which definitely isn't Heaven, are OT saints, the 12, those in the Acts church, including those Gentiles grafted into Israel, and other special Israelites throughout history, from Gen 12 through the end of Acts. .
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  17. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    ac28, you have given a very good outline as to why this doctrine exist.
    Thank You.
    I will take time and study this and your post in depth.
    If we look at the prophetic words in the Old Testament it may help our understanding.
    I cannot believe synoptic Gospels were proprietary to Jews only.
    Nor the Book of John and Acts.
    Looking in Psalms we see a prophetic vision of Jesus on the Cross.
    What I need is evidence from Schripture that there are two Salvation s one to New Jerusalem, the other to Heaven.
     
  18. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    Goodness knows I do not remember where, but I once read the Word Church was added to the King James by a Catholic Bishop.
    As the story goes He influenced the manuscript before it was printed.
    It may be untrue I don't know, yet places of worship in Christ time were called temples.

    But translation tells us it is a biblical name for assembly.
     
  19. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    The KJV was a translation specifically ordered by King James for use by the Church of England he was a member of.

    On the other side of the issue were the Congregationalists.

    They'd wanted the word "congregation" as a translation for the word "ekklesia" instead of the word "church."

    Ekklesia basically referring to a coming together, assembling, or congregating of a people into a group.

    Be that "church" people, or some other group of people.

    This is where where the Pentecostal organization "The Assemblies of God" get their word "Assemblies" from.

    One Jewish group goes by the name "Assemblies of Yahweh."

    Pass by any Public School and you'll often note one entrance with the words "Assembly Hall" over its doors.

    That is what the word "church" refers to - to an assembly of people.

    Because it is a translation of the word for "assembly" - the word "ekklesia."

    It only came to represent "THE church" because that is what the Church of England succeeded in forcing on one and all, under the rule of King James.

    So in a sense, there is no such thing as The Church Age.

    Perhaps in 1611 England.

    But it is a nismomer.

    It is too generic, thus, the resulting confusion.

    In Acts 7 in the KJV, for example, the verse that depicts Old Testament Israel as an assembly of God in the wilderness, renders it "the church in the wilderness."

    Meaning, that (at least within Dispensationalism) if one were to properly distinguish between Israel of old as a People of God and the Body of Christ, the proper phrasing might be "that assembly or church that was Israel, in contrast to our present assembly or church, which is the Body of Christ."

    "The church (assembly or congregation of people) which is His Body."

    While each's Economy or Age might be referred to as "that Prophesied Law Age or Economy," in contrast to "Our present Mystery or Grace Age / Economy."

    Point being, not so much one label over another, rather, clarity about these things - regardless of the particular label used.

    Rom. 5:6-8.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  20. ac28

    ac28 Well-Known Member

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    I've always thought that King James I had some influence on what went into the 1611 AV. For example, the dishonest substitution of the emotional, fake word, "hell" or "hel", for 4 totally unrelated words - sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus. Almost every Bible followed this same phony pattern. People love the idea that those that are less pious than they are should eternally suffer. In some churches (actually, synagogues), you're not considered saved unless you believe in hell. Hell sells Bibles, just like preaching hell and brimstone usually increases the take, especially when the congregation is kept very dumbed down, a very common thing in all mainstream denominational churches that I know of. This "dumbing down" is not really the preacher's fault, since they've also been "dumbed down", all of their life.

    However, in the pagan hell, one is still alive and therefore, there is always some hope. The true eternal punishment in the Bible is eternal death, annihilation, the worst punishment possible, of which there is no hope of any sort of afterlife. This is more real, when you see the truth that man IS a soul and the non-Biblical idea that he HAS a soul is just another fake pagan belief. See Gen 2:7.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
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