Micah ben Moresheth

[eclipsenow]

That is not an event?

What do you mean by "everything" ? What is the sequence of everything?

In the thread, Your sequential list - one post only - it is your eschatological sequence. It does not say your end times sequence.

The Lord Returns, which means the dead are raised, judged or saved, and the new heavens and new earth are ushered in. We are not told how 'long' all this happens, but those of us that still alive will be changed 'in a flash' or in the twinkling of an eye - so my guess is it's FAST. But it's all the one event. This era of history ends and eternity begins at the Day of the Lord.

There's no one individual antiChrist event to come - there always seem to be antiChrists. Even the little old lady down the road that denies Jesus is an antiChrist. Look up the NT's definition.

 

[Douggg]

The Lord Returns, which means the dead are raised, judged or saved, and the new heavens and new earth are ushered in. We are not told how 'long' all this happens, but those of us that still alive will be changed 'in a flash' or in the twinkling of an eye - so my guess is it's FAST. But it's all the one event. This era of history ends and eternity begins at the Day of the Lord.

There's no one individual antiChrist event to come - there always seem to be antiChrists. Even the little old lady down the road that denies Jesus is an antiChrist. Look up the NT's definition.

So your eschatological sequence is?

Lord Returns
dead raised
judged or saved
new heavens and new earth

Where does "us that still alive changed" fall in that sequence?

 

[Douggg]

This era of history ends and eternity begins at the Day of the Lord.

If eternity begins at the Day of the Lord, then the Day of the Lord must last for eternity, right? Or are you saying the Day of the Lord ends as soon as eternity begins?

If the Day of the Lord does not last for eternity, there has to be a space of time, no matter how great or small, between the end of the era of history, and the beginning of eternity, for the Day of the Lord to exist.

 

[keras]

I looked at your database list* - and I did not see Jeremiah 49:35-37 (which you interpret as an attempt to fire nuke missiles at Israel by Iran). Would that not be significant enough to place on your list ?

I could quote the entire Prophetic Word, as support for the sequence of events as I have posted.
If anyone rejects the idea that Jeremiah 49:35-37, refers to todays Iran, then they need to show what it does mean.

 

[eclipsenow]

So your eschatological sequence is?

Lord Returns
dead raised
judged or saved
new heavens and new earth

Where does "us that still alive changed" fall in that sequence?

It doesn't matter - and sounds like the old how many angels can fit on a pinhead. As far as I know, it all happens together in a nano-second.

 

[eclipsenow]

I could quote the entire Prophetic Word, as support for the sequence of events as I have posted.
If anyone rejects the idea that Jeremiah 49:35-37, refers to todays Iran, then they need to show what it does mean.

I could quote the entire Prophetic Word - but someone would have to have skills in reading, and possibly Jewish symbolism, to understand most of it is already fulfilled in Israel's history.

 

[eclipsenow]

If eternity begins at the Day of the Lord, then the Day of the Lord must last for eternity, right? Or are you saying the Day of the Lord ends as soon as eternity begins?

If the Day of the Lord does not last for eternity, there has to be a space of time, no matter how great or small, between the end of the era of history, and the beginning of eternity, for the Day of the Lord to exist.

The command is "Be ready!" Stay faithful. Keep your wicks burning. Don't be the evil servant. Stay in Jesus. Don't fall away.

The command isn't "Spend guessing games about how many nano-seconds are in a flash."

“in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” 1 Co. 15:52​

 

[keras]

I could quote the entire Prophetic Word - but someone would have to have skills in reading, and possibly Jewish symbolism, to understand most of it is already fulfilled in Israel's history.

So; when was Jeremiah 49:35-37 fulfilled in history?
Or what is it symbolic of?

 

[eclipsenow]

So; when was Jeremiah 49:35-37 fulfilled in history? Or what is it symbolic of?

Maybe if you had been more eager to investigate the clearer NT verses you forced me to copy and paste about 20 times I would play. But at this stage, you don't get any more than this. You're barking up the wrong tree unless you're talking about 30-33 - which has gospel promises probably in eschatological tension.

2 Peter 3:10-13
7. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly..... ....But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

MATTHEW 13
The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. 40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

 

[Douggg]

If anyone rejects the idea that Jeremiah 49:35-37, refers to todays Iran, then they need to show what it does mean.

I have not done an in depth study of Jeremiah 49. But from what I am reading regarding Elam, it appears to me that were some of the children of Israel, of the northern kingdom who were captive in Elam, part of the Assyrian captivity.

In verse 36, it appears that God breaks Elam's strength and the children of Israel become outcast from Elam, i.e. scattered into the nations.

34 The word of the LORD that came to Jeremiah the prophet against Elam in the beginning of the reign of Zedekiah king of Judah, saying,

35 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will break the bow of Elam, the chief of their might.

36 And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come.

Elam as a kingdom, itself gets destroyed.

37 For I will cause Elam to be dismayed before their enemies, and before them that seek their life: and I will bring evil upon them, even my fierce anger, saith the LORD; and I will send the sword after them, till I have consumed them:

God destroys all their leadership, the king and the princes.

38 And I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy from thence the king and the princes, saith the LORD.

In verse 39, it appears to switch to the end times, the latter days. There are Jews living currently living in the region called Elam in the text, probably today's Iran.

God will bring the Jews out of Elam, Iran in the latter days.

How did they get there? Somewhere along the line, probably during the Babylonian captives, the Jews find themselves in Elam. And have been there all this time.

39 But it shall come to pass in the latter days, that I will bring again the captivity of Elam, saith the LORD.

_______________________________________________________

So, to recap, it appears that there were children of Israel, taken captive into the Assyrian empire, into the region called Elam. Those were cast out of Elam, into the nations when God destroyed Elam as a power.

Later, in the Babylonian captivity, the Jews (of the southern kingdom of Judah) find themselves in the region of Elam. Which accounts for the Jews nowadays living in Iran. v39 indicates that those Jews are going to be coming out Iran, back into the land of Israel. Not yet happened, but in our generation.

___________________________________________________________________

Only verse 39 is latter days - so everything previous is historic.

 

[keras]

I have not done an in depth study of Jeremiah 49.

Frankly; I am astounded at your mis-interpretation of Jeremiahs prophecy.

Right now, today; the world is in a state of anticipation of what might happen in the Middle East. Yes; it has been this way for quite a while, but who thinks it continue forever?
Iran either has, or is very close to having nukes and the missiles to deliver them. Their unstable regime, in their desperation to retain control, will attempt to use then to destroy Israel. This will be the trigger for the Lord to act and to destroy them all. Ezekiel 7:14

Ezekiel 32:24-25 describes their demise. Obviously not yet happened.

 

[Douggg]

Right now, today; the world is in a state of anticipation of what might happen in the Middle East. Yes; it has been this way for quite a while, but who thinks it continue forever?
Iran either has, or is very close to having nukes and the missiles to deliver them. Their unstable regime, in their desperation to retain control, will attempt to use then to destroy Israel. This will be the trigger for the Lord to act and to destroy them all. Ezekiel 7:14

Ezekiel 32:24-25 describes their demise. Obviously not yet happened.

I have no disagreement with the Iran issue and nukes. But I don't see that those verses in Jeremiah 49:34-38 are about Iran in the end times.

Iran is part of the Gog/Magog invasion of Ezekiel 38-39.

Jeremiah 49 does not get into the end times until v39. Which captivity to Elam, God will bring the Jews (the children of Israel) out of Elan again, in v39 .

Indicating that v34-38, God has already done it once historically, and the children of Israel coming out of Elam were scattered to the nations, the first time.

39 But it shall come to pass in the latter days, that I will bring again the captivity of Elam, saith the LORD.

 

[keras]

39 But it shall come to pass in the latter days, that I will bring again the captivity of Elam, saith the LORD.

Typical KJV errors.
Jeremiah 49:39 Yet in days to come, I shall restore the fortunes of Elam. This is the Word of the Lord. REBible
Nothing to do with any Jewish captivity.

Men of Persia are listed in the Gog attack onto the new nation of Beulah. Ezekiel 38:5
There are many different people groups in Iran, those of Elam live in the West and South, those of Persia; are more in the North and East.

The correct understanding of Jer 49:35-38, of how the Lord will destroy Iran and all the attackers of Israel, is well prophesied and now we today, can see just how it will happen. Why not know about it and be prepared for it?

 

[Douggg]

The correct understanding of Jer 49:35-38, of how the Lord will destroy Iran and all the attackers of Israel, is well prophesied and now we today, can see just how it will happen. Why not know about it and be prepared for it?

You interpret Iran to the eastern part destroyed and the western part blessed in the latter days (according to the Reb v39). That makes no sense. The kjv v39 makes sense, since there are Jews in Iran.

 

[Douggg]

@keras please do a copy and paste for Jeremiah 49:6 from the Reb.

 

[eclipsenow]

...in the Gog attack onto the new nation of Beulah. Ezekiel 38...

Are we discussing Jeremiah or Ezekiel?

There are many different people groups in Iran,

I think you'll find the word Iran is not in the Old Testament.

The correct understanding of Jer 49:35-38, of how the Lord will destroy Iran and all the attackers of Israel, is well prophesied and now we today, can see just how it will happen. Why not know about it and be prepared for it?

Nah. Fulfilled. Those verses show us how God works in history and is true to his people. But Jer 30 to 33 is significant today though - as it points forward to the Messiah - and his continued reign from Incarnation to Return (the eschatology of "Now and not yet" in the spiritual fulfilment of the kingdom which becomes reality when he Returns).

 

[keras]

@keras please do a copy and paste for Jeremiah 49:6 from the Reb.

Yet; after this, I shall restore the fortunes of Ammon. This is the word of the Lord. Revised English Bible.

Eclipsenow, I use all the Prophesies.
The name of the new nation which will replace Jewish Israel in all of the holy Land; is Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5
It is plain, from Ezekiel 38, that the people whom Gog attacks, are not the current inhabitants.

 

[eclipsenow]

Yet; after this, I shall restore the fortunes of Ammon. This is the word of the Lord. Revised English Bible.

Eclipsenow, I use all the Prophesies.
The name of the new nation which will replace Jewish Israel in all of the holy Land; is Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5
It is plain, from Ezekiel 38, that the people whom Gog attacks, are not the current inhabitants.

Ezekiel 38 isn't about what you think it's about either. So when someone puts multiple things together that are all out of context and misunderstood in the first place - you can be sure that whatever that person cooks up after that isn't going to be based on anything real

 

[keras]

Nahum the prophet
Nahum 1:1-14 An oracle of the Lord against His enemies. The Lord is a jealous and avenging God. He directs His wrath against those who refuse Him.
The Lord is slow to anger and of great power. He will not let the guilty go unpunished.
He causes droughts and earthquakes. Who can stand before His anger and wrath poured out like fire, rocks shatter before Him
Why do you conspire against the Lord? He will make an end of you.

The Lord is a refuge in times of trouble – He cares for those who trust Him.

From you, Assyria, one has come forth, a wicked counsellor – plotting evil against the Lord.
Assyria; this is what the Lord has ordained for you. I will destroy you and your idols. Your grave is ready, for you are of no account. Isaiah 31:8-9


Nahum 1:12-15 The Lord says; Judah, though your punishment has been great, yet it will pass away and be gone. Your enemies are many, but they will be gone and the yoke laid on you will be lifted.

Look; here is the one who brings good news, who proclaims peace. Keep your festivals, Judah and fulfil your vows. No more will your enemies invade you, they are totally destroyed.

Nahum 2:1 The Lord will restore the pride of Israel, [all 12 tribes, plus those grafted in] though enemies have ravaged them.
Reference: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged.


Nahum chapters 2 & 3 describes the enemies of the Lord, portrayed by Assyria, as it was destroyed in ancient times, but also what will happen in the future to those who reject the Lord and persecute His people.

Nahum: His name means “comfort, consolation”. He lived about 660 to 610BC, so, after the Assyrian conquest of the Northern tribes of Israel, but before the Babylonian conquest of Judah in 585BC. Capernaum literally means ‘the village of Nahum”.

Nahum shows God to be slow to anger, but One who by no means will clear the guilty and will bring His vengeance and retribution to pass. Ninevah was conquered by the Medes and Persians in 612BC as predicted so graphically by Nahum- squadrons of horses charging madly... troops dressed in scarlet...the palace topples down...slave girls moaning like doves....myriads of slain, heaps of corpses...all who hear of your fate clap hands, etc.

But, chapter one, particularly, must be future prophecy as well, as Paul quotes Nahum 1:15 in Romans 10:15. Nahum 1:11 says about a ‘wicked counsellor’ who comes from Assyria. This may refer to the Anti Christ, still to come.

Then in Nahum 1:12-13 specifically says that Judah is being punished, but soon their enemies will pass away. Today, the persecution of the Jews still continues – pogroms, the Holocaust, anti Semitism, etc. Therefore, this prophecy is yet to be completed.
The final Judgement of Judah will happen at the same time as their enemies. Jeremiah 12:14

 

[eclipsenow]

But, chapter one, particularly, must be future prophecy as well, as Paul quotes Nahum 1:15 in Romans 10:15.

Nah 1:15
1:15 See Is. 52:7. The approach of a herald of “good news,” whose feet tread “the mountains” of Judah, initiates a new period of grateful service to the Lord. The good news is summarized in the meaningful word “peace” (Hebrew shalom), signifying not only the end of hostilities but also the return to normal, abundant living conditions and general well-being.
Keep . . . vows. Periods of national crisis or foreign oppression often made celebration of the important temple feasts difficult, if not impossible. The “vows” made in the previous period of distress should now be fulfilled (Ps. 116:14, 17–19).
Nah 1:15 - ESV Reformation Study Bible - Bible Gateway
​

Basically, after Nineveh falls, Judah returns to Israel. But this again is fulfilled in the gospel (not the future!) as Paul explains the gospel going out to be what restores people to Shalom / peace. If anything Nahum and Paul's use of it should indicate both that Amils are right, because Paul's reading of Nahum is exactly the kind of eschatological tension we see in the OT and NT fulfilment all the time! See how Israel returning before the Romans beautifully fulfils this verse in the real, but then Paul's spiritualising of Nahum 1:15 kicks it up into gospel eschatological tension?

ROMANS 10
14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for

“Their voice has gone out to all the earth,
and their words to the ends of the world.”

19 But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says,

“I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation;
with a foolish nation I will make you angry.”

20 Then Isaiah is so bold as to say,

“I have been found by those who did not seek me;
I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”

21 But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”​