Micah 6:8

[fhansen]

“He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.”

Is this still required or obligatory to obey under the new covenant? Or what about the shema, or the greatest commandments as Jesus stated them in Matt 22?

‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and love your neighbor as yourself.’

 

[HTacianas]

“He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.”

Is this still required or obligatory to obey under the new covenant? Or what about the shema, or the greatest commandments as Jesus stated them in Matt 22?

‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and love your neighbor as yourself.’

Of course it is. When Jesus sent his apostles into the world he said to convert them,

Mat 28:20 “teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen

Repentance from "dead works" and good conduct have always been part of the gospel.

 

[fhansen]

Of course it is. When Jesus sent his apostles into the world he said to convert them,

Mat 28:20 “teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen

Repentance from "dead works" and good conduct have always been part of the gospel.

So without this obedience one cannot be-or isn’t-saved?

 

[HTacianas]

So without this obedience one cannot be-or isn’t-saved?

That's about the size of it, yes. Paul said to the Corinthians:

1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[fhansen]

That's about the size of it, yes. Paul said to the Corinthians:

1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Yes, it seems to be a tall order though, to walk uprightly, love mercy, love God with your whole heart, love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

Requires the Holy Spirit. With God all things are possible.

Mark 10:27
But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”

Edit: Zech 4:6

So he answered and said to me:

“This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel:
‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’
Says the Lord of hosts.

 

[HTacianas]

Yes, it seems to be a tall order though, to walk uprightly, love justice, love God with your whole heart, love your neighbor as yourself.

There are sometimes things that get in the way. That's why we have confession and repentance. But in the end it simply means to be a decent person. Remember:

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

If you read the old testament -especially a plain language version like the NIV- you'll see that the people God hates are horrible, awful people who do horrible, awful things. What we would consider nowadays as mafiosos. Murderers, extortionists, thieves, kidnappers, and downright evil people. Don't be like that.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

And Jer.9:23 - 24 fits your original passage from Micah:

23This is what the LORD says: “Let no wise man boast of his wisdom, nor let the mighty man boast of his might, nor a rich man boast of his riches; 24but let the one who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises [f]mercy, justice, and righteousness on the earth; for I delight in these things,” declares the LORD.

 

[fhansen]

There are sometimes things that get in the way. That's why we have confession and repentance. But in the end it simply means to be a decent person. Remember:

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

If you read the old testament -especially a plain language version like the NIV- you'll see that the people God hates are horrible, awful people who do horrible, awful things. What we would consider nowadays as mafiosos. Murderers, extortionists, thieves, kidnappers, and downright evil people. Don't be like that.

And yet where is the line drawn between a decent and not decent person? Or is decency enough? Love should exclude sin but we'll still struggle with sin in any case. But I think your distinction is good; there are more horrible sins and there are much lighter sins, sins that don't oppose love in that same obvious way, it could be said.

And then there are some who might say that an obligation to obey even these commandments would interfere with a faith alone doctrine.

 

[fhansen]

And Jer.9:23 - 24 fits your original passage from Micah:

23This is what the LORD says: “Let no wise man boast of his wisdom, nor let the mighty man boast of his might, nor a rich man boast of his riches; 24but let the one who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises [f]mercy, justice, and righteousness on the earth; for I delight in these things,” declares the LORD.

Thank you!- a great quote.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

“He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.”

Is this still required or obligatory to obey under the new covenant? Or what about the shema, or the greatest commandments as Jesus stated them in Matt 22?

‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and love your neighbor as yourself.’

These are some of the many fruits that is in ones life when walking with His Holy Spirit daily.
Blessings

 

[fhansen]

These are some of the many fruits that is in ones life when walking with His Holy Spirit daily.
Blessings

Yes, and are those fruits necessary, as with holiness without which we wont see the Lord? (Heb 12:14) Or is holiness just sort of guaranteed for a believer anyway?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Yes, and are those fruits necessary, as with holiness without which we wont see the Lord? (Heb 12:14) Or is holiness just sort of guaranteed for a believer anyway?

Well; love,mercy and humbleness are characteristics of a Christian. We may not always shine in these areas however we are convicted by the Holy Spirit when we are showing no love, no mercy and no humbleness. It is the process of santification where the hardness of our heart melts away. If there is a desire then He will direct us through the power of His Holy Spirit conforming us to the image of Christ. If there is no desire then there may be an issue with "quenching" His work in the beliver.
Blessings

 

[HTacianas]

And yet where is the line drawn between a decent and not decent person? Or is decency enough? Love should exclude sin but we'll still struggle with sin in any case. But I think your distinction is good; there are more horrible sins and there are much lighter sins, sins that don't oppose love in that same obvious way, it could be said.

And then there are some who might say that an obligation to obey even these commandments would interfere with a faith alone doctrine.

People who tell you that you should not obey the commandments because of whatever tradition they happen to follow are people you should ignore completely. That was a heresy in the early Church that was resoundingly condemned. See here:

Jde 1:4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality...

It was the idea that a person could sin all he wanted and still be saved. This is what the new testament says abut keeping the commandments:

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

 

[mikeforjesus]

He presents you holy and without blemish in His sight through His blood to be holy is to be one who worships God and accept Him to have relationship with Him through faith but person also has not yet been fully purged of sins yet to be transformed before this is done in age to come you need to have become holy before to enter kingdom on death but if not one can still be saved if he turns to God when he has opportunity to be made transformed in world to come after going through suffering as chastisement in world to come which is difficult which is why we should be seeking to perfect holiness in the fear of God now so we don’t need discipline.

As Paul says when we are judged we are chastened by the Lord that we may not be condemned with the world as some people were not fully holy who took communion while they had not yet stopped all sins yet they didn’t try to to examine themselves then to try to do and we’re chastised and we’re accepted because they did not sin wilfully to know what sins one has that one should stop.

 

[fhansen]

People who tell you that you should not obey the commandments because of whatever tradition they happen to follow are people you should ignore completely. That was a heresy in the early Church that was resoundingly condemned. See here:

Jde 1:4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality...

It was the idea that a person could sin all he wanted and still be saved. This is what the new testament says abut keeping the commandments:

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Thank you-that put things in perspective. It's not first of all about telling us not to obey the commandments, though, as it is believing first of all that a strictly declared righteousness, as a result of faith, is sufficient to make one righteous enough for heaven. That's where the error begins-and has spread a great deal of confusion within the Christian world.

In truth, Christ's righteousness is not only imputed to us, as in declared, but actually given to us. And then we're expected to walk in that justice or righteousness. The point of the new covenant is not that we're only forgiven of sin/unrighteousness and given a carte blanc reprieve for the penalties of sin, but that we're also now given the ability to overcome unrighteousness, by the Spirit, under grace-something the law could never do-and yet something we still must do. IOW, faith doesn't serve as some sort of -arbitrary?-benchmark but rather as the means to restored union with God, and therefore the means to the authentic righteousness that this new familial relationship engenders as long as we truly remain in it, in Him.

 

[fhansen]

He presents you holy and without blemish in His sight through His blood to be holy is to be one who worships God and accept Him to have relationship with Him through faith but person also has not yet been fully purged of sins yet to be transformed before this is done in age to come you need to have become holy before to enter kingdom on death but if not if one can still be saved if he turns to God when he has opportunity to be made transformed in world to come after going through suffering as chastisement in world to come which is difficult which is why we should be seeking to perfect holiness in the fear of God now so we don’t need discipline.

As Paul says when we are judged we are chastened by the Lord that we may not be condemned with the world as some people were not fully holy who took communion while they had not yet stopped all sins yet they didn’t try to to examine themselves then to try to do and we’re chastised and we’re accepted because they did not sin wilfully to know what sins one has that one should stop.

And also,
"Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." Heb 12:14

 

[mikeforjesus]

Which means one can be holy because you are told to be in peace with all men to forgive them so there is always chance for them to be holy. If you needed to follow a certain path that requires much time to have done works to be considered holy some can now not do even if they wanted to repent but bible says anyone can be saved and yet you must be holy to be saved it must be if you are not you don’t see God then not ready but in world to come after you are chastened to allow yourself to repent to be holy to be saved then if you repented to accept gospel truly which saves

 

[fhansen]

Well; love,mercy and humbleness are characteristics of a Christian. We may not always shine in these areas however we are convicted by the Holy Spirit when we are showing no love, no mercy and no humbleness. It is the process of santification where the hardness of our heart melts away. If there is a desire then He will direct us through the power of His Holy Spirit conforming us to the image of Christ. If there is no desire then there may be an issue with "quenching" His work in the beliver.
Blessings

I see, so you're saying that sanctification is guaranteed. Once a person turns to God in faith there's no way they can turn back away? They become overwhelmed by God such that their wills are no longer active?

 

[HTacianas]

Thank you-that put things in perspective. It's not first of all about telling us not to obey the commandments, though, as it is believing first of all that a strictly declared righteousness, as a result of faith, is sufficient to make one righteous enough for heaven. That's where the error begins-and has spread a great deal of confusion within the Christian world.

In truth, Christ's righteousness is not only imputed to us, as in declared, but actually given to us. And then we're expected to walk in that justice or righteousness. The point of the new covenant is not that we're only forgiven of sin/unrighteousness and given a carte blanc reprieve for the penalties of sin, but that we're also now given the ability to overcome unrighteousness, by the Spirit, under grace-something the law could never do-and yet something we still must do. IOW, faith doesn't serve as some sort of -arbitrary?-benchmark but rather as the means to restored union with God, and therefore the means to the authentic righteousness that this new familial relationship engenders as long as we truly remain in it, in Him.

You're absolutely correct. The problem comes among some that they think the righteousness imputed covers anything and everything they do for the rest of their life. It isn't so. As Romans says:

Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

The imputed righteousness covers only previous sins. A person is -as you said- expected to walk in that righteousness afterwards.