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Messianics who preach circumcision

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by 31gH9N.9., May 25, 2018.

  1. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    Of course. This does not exclude an earthly temple. Heavenly and earthly temples are different venues which serve different purposes.
     
  2. Randy777

    Randy777 Well-Known Member

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    You seemed to focus on incest. Prostitution wasn't listed.
     
  3. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    Leviticus 19:29
    'Do not profane your daughter by making her a harlot, so that the land will not fall to harlotry and the land become full of lewdness.

    Deuteronomy 23:17-18
    "None of the daughters of Israel shall be a cult prostitute, nor shall any of the sons of Israel be a cult prostitute. "You shall not bring the hire of a harlot or the wages of a dog into the house of the LORD your God for any votive offering, for both of these are an abomination to the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 21:9

    'Also the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by harlotry, she profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.
     
  4. Randy777

    Randy777 Well-Known Member

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    Its quite clear Jesus is a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek. By Gods appointment not genology.
    A priest who has indestructible life in Himself who can save those that come to him forever.

    And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17For it is declared:

    “You are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek.”
    18The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
     
  5. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    Rahab, in Yeshua's line, was a prostitute, and so without her the line would not be complete. If it could be completed without her, then we have to ask why did G_d admit her to the Messiah's line, and not some other well deserving Jewish girl?
     
  6. Randy777

    Randy777 Well-Known Member

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    Another example of righteousness by faith or a sincere faith or faith put in action. She believed God and hid the spies. She herself was, not at that time, under the law of Moses.
     
  7. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    All the more of an oddity! Had she not helped the spies she would have died.
     
  8. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    Yes, since she married Salmon and became part of Israel, then she WOULD come under the Law.
     
  9. ralliann

    ralliann christian

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    To my way of seeing this...It is not good enough to say the original covenant. As I said, God made two covenants with Abraham. Those in my mind are the original covenants. The Sinai covenant is a distinct covenant which is not made with Abraham.
    The Exodus from Egypt under Moses, was a fulfillment of the covenant made in Genesis 15. Passover and the feast of unleavened bread are memorials of Gods fulfillment of promises made to Abraham. The nation of Israel is back there today as a result of that covenant. It is a covenant God keeps unto the natural seed of Abraham.
    I believe that is why Israel is called God's firstborn. Two portions in Abraham....
    One: temporal and earthly (a shadow) Moses
    One: eternal and heavenly...( a reality) Jesus
    Those of the circumcision in the foreskin of the flesh, which are believers share in both portions = firstborn.

    The 1st covenant....
    Ge 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

    The 2nd covenant....
    Those of the uncircumcision which believe have a share equally with the circumcision.
    Ge 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
    So when you say original covenant, which do you refer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  10. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    Genesis 17 The Covenant is to be through Isaac because Abram fell on the floor laughing when G_d told him he would have a son. See vs15-22 (Isaac = laughing)

    See also 17:7-8 Land covenant repeated and, later, genealogical / circumcision covenant. The two are made one through Isaac.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  11. Randy777

    Randy777 Well-Known Member

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    Its a good thing then that she acted on her faith for she believed God was going to destroy her city. Perhaps God gave grace to her for His own purposes? You never know.
     
  12. ralliann

    ralliann christian

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    Not sure I understand all your intent here but..I will answer to some points I think might help to at least see my views of this.
    The land was spoken of before Gen 15 and 17. Not given in covenant until Gen 15 and 17.
    Gen 15 is not when God gave the land to the fathers. Rather it was to his seed of the 4th generation. Abraham is said to die and be buried in this covenant. I see it more as Abraham is given the promise of heirs.
    Abraham is not personally promised the land until gen 17.
    These two things (or covenants) bring in the need for a resurrection from the dead. Since Abraham is told the 4th Generation will inherit and he will die before he inherits the land.
    Gen 15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
    16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
    17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
    18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

    It was not until gen 17 that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the patriarchs are given promise in covenant.
    Since Abraham knew they were going to be dead by the time they inherited it, his faith was tested with Isaac. Abraham expected God to raise him from the dead. The promise of the resurrection was established in Isaac.
    Waiting for the promise to the fourth generation...We have the same here.
    Third generation dies...….
    Ge 50:23 And Joseph saw Ephraim’s children of the third generation: the children also of Machir the son of Manasseh were brought up upon Joseph’s knees.
    Ex 1:6 And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation.
    Joseph having faith in the resurrection..

    Ge 50:25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.
    Ex 13:19 And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.

    Acts 7 and Hebrews 11 speak of this.
    Act7:2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
    3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
    4 Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
    5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.
    6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
    7 And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.

    Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

    How do you see these things?
     
  13. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    When you read scripture prayerfully, the Lord will inspire you, bring it to your heart, and bring conviction, that which is His and that which He wants you to transform into your own life. Take reading the Law of God or as King David said, meditate upon it, and listen closely while you are reading to hear His still small voice speak to your heart. Open up your heart to see, hear, believe, and accept it. The Words will come alive and speak volumes in visions, and in lifting off the page, they come with conviction that only the Holy Spirit can give, and thus the new covenant between you and God is forged in your heart. Submit unto Him and He will transform you.
     
  14. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    The Acts account (vs4 & 5) you have mentioned is a known problem area. It doesn't quite add up in line with other scripture.

    I'm sure I've been through all this with you recently!
     
  15. Randy777

    Randy777 Well-Known Member

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    I think we are on the same page but just to be sure:
    I was looking for "Christ in us". Which is the Spirit Jesus sends into ours hearts in accordance to the gift His Father promised. If one does not have the Spirit of Christ in them they don't belong to Jesus. If one does have that Spirit they are a new creation. The old has gone.

    To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

    33They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

    34Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.b
     
  16. Randy777

    Randy777 Well-Known Member

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    It appears God sense of justice and righteousness wouldn't allow the people who currently lived in that land promised to Abraham destroyed until there sins reached full measure. So Israel had to wait 400 plus years (parked by God) until The people living in the land God have to Abraham reached judgment level.
    Ref Gen 15:12-16

    And of course that people tested God 10 times to their detriment.
    Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the wilderness, people of Israel?
     
  17. ralliann

    ralliann christian

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    Acts 4&5 line up perfectly with Hebrews 11, and the actual words of the covenant made in Gen 15.
    I do not remember going through all this with you, but I will accept your response on that.
    While I believe the covenant of the promise of a resurrection (unto an eternal inheritance) was established in Isaac, It was fulfilled in Christ.
    The covenant made in Genesis 17 is that which gives God as the God of all his seed, Royal seed, and the hope of the resurrection to an etrnal inheritance to all the seed upon whom the promise comes (by faith).
    The Church of the firstborn were the circumcision in the flesh which entered into the new birth by the spirit which the uncircumcision share.
    We are saved the same way...…...circumcision made without hands and heirs of the promise....
    Lu 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

    Mt 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

    Mr 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
     
  18. ralliann

    ralliann christian

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    This still does not address what God says to Abraham in the first covenant.
    Ge 15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
     
  19. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    Deuteronomy 7:16 to 24 explains the comment in red. The people had been so looked after by G_d that they had become 'soft targets', so that if they just went to the promised land in one big step, even the wild animals would have defeated them, let alone the tribes. They had to learn to rely on G_d to gain the Land of the Covenant, at his speed and his instruction, not their own strength. :)
     
  20. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Yahshua was a Levite on Mary's side, and on Joseph's side he was Davidic Royalty.
     
  21. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    The author of Hebrews say Jesus was not eligible to be a priest on earth.

    Hebrews 7:14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.
     
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