Messianic Judaism vs. Conservative Christianity

[Gxg (G²)]

Yeah, that's the truth. I honestly believe most of the people I know who studied Biblical languages don't use it once they finish their courses. Lexicons etc come into their own at that point and seem to be more interesting and useful. But you have to know the grammar first.

I would dare say, though, that even knowing grammer can only go so far if disconnected with the culture...much like studying the grammer/language of Spanish and seeing what a word could mean technically--and then getting into the culture/realizing that the way its spoken culturally has a radically differing connotation and imagery than what the technical definition of the term means.


Its the world of sociolinguistics..... Hoping to get my Masters in it once I get accepted into the program, so that I could get involved with Biblical Sociolinguistics. For some good review:

• The Sociolinguistics of Translating Canonical Religious Texts, ...

• BiblicalStudies.org.uk: Peter Cotterell on Sociolinguistics and Biblical Interpretation ...

 

[rsduncan]

One of the guys (Jase, I think) said that the term used in the Hebrew is to'evah and that it meant sex with temple prostitutes.
I looked up the passage and found that the word, to'evah, is used but it had other meanings as well, such as abomination. That's all.

As I recall, Jase said to'evah meant "cultural taboo", and he viewed the whole issue of homosexual relations in in the context of Molechian rites and male cult prostitutes - something which doesn't exist today - at least not in the original form...

 

[rsduncan]

We agree on this. But I suspect I would apply it differently. I believe in charity in the congregation towards all people, gay or not. To me, the sin of adultery among straight people is the same as the sin we are discussing. Both are covered in the "thou shalt not commit adultery" commandment. One is just as bad as the other.

Yet, on a day to day basis, I will encounter far more breakers of this commandment who are straight than who are gay. Therefore, I should be far more concerned for straight adulterers than gay ones.



I don't mind which highway you travel my friend. I just want to live like a follower of the Lord as best I can, and he bids me to love sinners, and not publically humiliate them and nominate their particular struggle with sin before the world.

This is something that I drew out of the documentary I posted. The church needs to help people, not hack them to bits. People struggle in their battle with sins, and it's not easy for them to win. We need to help them and get behind them, in order for them to have victory. All this vilification needs to stop. The Bible teaches us about our sins but we need to remember how to approach other sinners with love, not hate.

I'm not a member of the Westboro Baptist church. This is the difference. I'm sure you would agree that their attitude is wrong.

CM, there are homosexuals where I work. I don't hound them, call them sinners, scan the ground looking for stones, treat them with disrespect, picket military funerals or anything else like that. I come in to work, clock in, do my job, confine my interactions to what is required to do my job, and clock out and go home when my shift is finished, i.e. I live and let live. I expect the same.

Now, yonah tells me that "it is not a sin to be oriented in one way or another. That is something beyond our control". Fine. I'll buy that. But then he goes on, upholds Torah, and asks that homosexuals be treated decently. I have no problem with any of that, and if he feels called to help homosexuals live a Torah lifestyle, he has my endorsement. G-d knows we all need help in the area of sexual sins - every time I see a good-looking woman, I have to quickly avert my glance, lest in the eyes of Yeshua HaMoshiach I commit adultery.

To me the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth, i.e. G-d's Word, is not up for debate. I am sorry if others feel otherwise and consider that it in meed of being "modernized". At the rate we are proceeding with the snipping out of passages of G-d's Word, we won't have a Torah left before very long. That is why Jase is on my Ignore List.

Now, if anyone else has a problem with this, anyone else, they may feel free to submit their requests to be on my Ignore List, and I will be pleased to accommodate them...

 

[Jase]

One of the guys (Jase, I think) said that the term used in the Hebrew is to'evah and that it meant sex with temple prostitutes.
I looked up the passage and found that the word, to'evah, is used but it had other meanings as well, such as abomination. That's all.

No, I said Leviticus 18 and 20 in context deals with pagan prostitution. The practice of the Caananites and Egyptians was for the men to have sex with the shrine prostitutes in the temples in order to gain favor with their fertility gods and goddesses.

I said the word "abomination" in that verse is To'evah in Hebrew.

King James added abomination inaccurately. To'evah is not as severe as abomination and does not have the same connotation.

Otherwise, wearing cotton and polyester is also an abomination.

Cultural history (i.e. the practices of the ancient Egyptians and Caananites) is important to understand where the author was coming from. The Bible does not include every detail to ever exist. Sola Scriptura is not Biblical.

 

[ContraMundum]

CM, there are homosexuals where I work. I don't hound them, call them sinners, scan the ground looking for stones, treat them with disrespect, picket military funerals or anything else like that. I come in to work, clock in, do my job, confine my interactions to what is required to do my job, and clock out and go home when my shift is finished, i.e. I live and let live. I expect the same.

Now, yonah tells me that "it is not a sin to be oriented in one way or another. That is something beyond our control". Fine. I'll buy that. But then he goes on, upholds Torah, and asks that homosexuals be treated decently. I have no problem with any of that, and if he feels called to help homosexuals live a Torah lifestyle, he has my endorsement. G-d knows we all need help in the area of sexual sins - every time I see a good-looking woman, I have to quickly avert my glance, lest in the eyes of Yeshua HaMoshiach I commit adultery.

To me the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth, i.e. G-d's Word, is not up for debate. I am sorry if others feel otherwise and consider that it in meed of being "modernized". At the rate we are proceeding with the snipping out of passages of G-d's Word, we won't have a Torah left before very long. That is why Jase is on my Ignore List.

Now, if anyone else has a problem with this, anyone else, they may feel free to submit their requests to be on my Ignore List, and I will be pleased to accommodate them...

I think we are closer in our opinions than some might suspect.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I think we are closer in our opinions than some might suspect.

Honestly, I think ALOT of people are often close in their opinions with one another but can never see that due to things getting lost in translation or mode of language....and whereas one is saying one thing in one sense, someone is often trying to same the same in a differing one. Even for one saying that they could never be doing something in the same way as another, they may never realize how they already do so daily and yet miss that because of how they've chosen to categorize it...

 

[ContraMundum]

Honestly, I think ALOT of people are often close in their opinions with one another but can never see that due to things getting lost in translation or mode of language....and whereas one is saying one thing in one sense, someone is often trying to same the same in a differing one. Even for one saying that they could never be doing something in the same way as another, they may never realize how they already do so daily and yet miss that because of how they've chosen to categorize it...

I think that is probably right.

 

[rsduncan]

I think we are closer in our opinions than some might suspect.

You wanna know something else?

If anyone here wants to start up a church or synagogue and wants to appoint Hugh Hefner or Larry Flynt as pastor or rabbi and Linda Lovelace as cantor or something, then run down to the nearest Gay Pride parade and pack the place full of openly-gay-and-proud-of-it people and preach a gospel in which all athiests, humanists, and homosexuals will be saved and "homophobes" and "bronze-agers" like me will burn in Hell, I have no problem with that either...





























































...just don't expect to see me there...

 

[yedida]

As I recall, Jase said to'evah meant "cultural taboo", and he viewed the whole issue of homosexual relations in in the context of Molechian rites and male cult prostitutes - something which doesn't exist today - at least not in the original form...

To whomever had said it, I just wanted to point out that the word toevah has more meanings that what he said, and that "abomination" is definitely a choice.

 

[yedida]

Of course it has to do with sex. That doesn't mean that it has to do with all sexual practices. Context must determine the meaning of the verse.

This was an error. I've made a corrected post. My mouse had moved and landed on this word in the verse. Bad, bad me

 

[aniello]

Sort of a info question to Anisavta, Yedida, rsD, et.al.

I can certainly empathize with rsd on "This '(picture)' is dialogue?" I think some here would kill if they could. I admit I might be one of them. If the shoe fits..... . What can I say?

My question though is simple. I'm an old guy and I am very computer internetting(is that what you'd call this stuff) challenged. In my practice(work) yeah we use computers all the time but we don't hold procedings on the internet. Here's the question. What 'ignore button'? Where's the 'ignore button'? I don't see it.

 

[Jase]

It's under your User CP at the top of the website. On the left side is a link to Edit Ignore List.

 

[yedida]

Sort of a info question to Anisavta, Yedida, rsD, et.al.

I can certainly empathize with rsd on "This '(picture)' is dialogue?" I think some here would kill if they could. I admit I might be one of them. If the shoe fits..... . What can I say?

My question though is simple. I'm an old guy and I am very computer internetting(is that what you'd call this stuff) challenged. In my practice(work) yeah we use computers all the time but we don't hold procedings on the internet. Here's the question. What 'ignore button'? Where's the 'ignore button'? I don't see it.

In trying to give step by step instructions, I see someone has already helped you.

 

[Edial]

Thread is temporarily closed so we could address the flames.

 

[suzybeezy]

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