Messianic Church History

Talmid HaYarok

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Most Christians I think are aware of the Messianic history of the church in the first century. Some people are even aware of the various "movements" of the last century of the Jewish people to following the Jewish Messiah, Yeshua of Natzeret.

What I think most people are unaware of is approximately 1800 years of history inbetween. Even for myself this is something I need to study a lot more of. Much of the history is largely remembered as a history of persecution.

There are the various Talmudic writings on the "Minim". Its acceptable for a Jew to be an Athiest, a Hindu, or even a Muslim; but in Israel today the only unallowed faith for a Jew who wishes to immigrate is a Faith in Rabbi Yeshua of Nazareth, the Messiah.

Likewise there has rarely been an acceptance of Jewish believers among the Gentile community. Few people are aware for instance that the Spanish Inquisition started to get rid of Messianic "Heretics" who were believed to be polluting Christianity. Messianic Jews were mostly likely to be executed while Orthodox Jews and Muslims were typically expelled from the country.

Besides the persecutions there is a lot of other rich history. Here is a link to a brief list of some famous Messianic Jews who influenced (Western) church history.

For hundreds of years the Bishops of the churches in Judae and Samaria were Jewish. There is one account of a debate between two Messianic Jews and 22 rabbis during the Disputation of Aragon which laster a year from 1413-1414 and resulted in the conversion of over 5,000 Jews to faith in Yeshua.

Again most of this is the history of the Western Church and much more was occurring among Jews communities of North Africa, the Middle-East and East Africa. If you have any more stories and histories from this long time period, please share!
 

EPHRIAM777

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Talmid HaYarok said

Most Christians I think are aware of the Messianic history of the church in the first century. Some people are even aware of the various "movements" of the last century of the Jewish people to following the Jewish Messiah, Yeshua of Natzeret.

Eph writes...

Sure...BUT I'm also aware of the people who are mentioned in ACTS 15...AND GAL 1...So as Christians we must be careful these "types" don't overrun Christianity...in some kind of power move...!

TALMID writes...
There are the various Talmudic writings on the "Minim". Its acceptable for a Jew to be an Athiest, a Hindu, or even a Muslim; but in Israel today the only unallowed faith for a Jew who wishes to immigrate is a Faith in Rabbi Yeshua of Nazareth, the Messiah.

Eph says...
What what did you expect...Romans 10:2:4..clearly points out what their belief system is like..and why they have no righteousness before God..! ...and I might add..that ROM 10:9:10..spells out the way they CAN be found righteous...So if they disallow the ONE way they can be saved..the result shouldn't surprise anyone...!


Talmud says..
Likewise there has rarely been an acceptance of Jewish believers among the Gentile community.

Eph writes...

Here I must disagree...Jewish believers that come to Christ..are looked upon as "jewels" in the Christian congregations...."Living Jems" shining of Gods forgiveness....BUT not those who wish to bring the baggage of the LAW along with them...They are NOT looked at as jewels..but as a yolk still bearing it's OWN weight...!


Talmud says...
For hundreds of years the Bishops of the churches in Judae and Samaria were Jewish.

Eph writes...

"Formerly" Jewish...would be better here...don't you agree..?

Alot of Christians in the first century were "formerly" Jewish people who had their eyes opened to Jesus Christ...Once that happened they weren't "Jewish" in the religious sence anymore...!
 
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Ruhama

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EphRAim,

This is not the place to start interdenominational wars. Your statements so clearly intended to offend don't even try to deny it.

"Formerly" Jewish... would be better here...don't you agree..?

What messianic Jew could ever agree to that?   Furthermore it was in direct contradiction to what Talmid's expressed views were.

Your post has no place here.  How can you say to all our faces that it is not even a Christian way of life, when even the moderators of this board have specifically upheld this group's beliefs?

Ephriam, look carefully at what you are doing. This is not in the spirit of brotherhood, or of Christ.
 
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Magisterium

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I have a question. In my humble study of Christian scripture and the Catholic Church, especially in reading the apostle Paul's letter to the romans (chapters 9-11), It is clear that Gentile Christians (such as myself) are as "grafted branches" on the true vine. We are also reminded By Jesus words to the Gentile woman "it is not right to give the food of the children to the Dogs" that we are indeed only transplants through our faith. Jesus made it clear that his mission on earth was to the Jews. However, when looking at the development of christianity in Rome, little is said about evangelization to the Jews. Further, Catholics (at least ones who are well versed in their faith) understand that they are effectively adopted jews. Jesus new covenant was the consumation of the previous 6 covenants. (1:adam and eve, 2:Noah, 3:Abraham, 4:Jacob (Isreal), 5:Moses, 6-David). At any rate, Did the Catholic Church Just develop and spread independent of Messianic Judiasm, or were they ever united or affiliated?

:scratch:
 
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chelcb

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Today at 09:08 AM Pray4Isrel said this in Post #5

I don't believe they were ever unified or affiliated. Also the crusades come to mind which only creted a larger rift. It's interesting you should ask because I was speaking with a Catholic woman last night who said, and I quote, "Catholics are the REAL Messianic Jews". I was so deeply hurt by that, that I could no longer post in that thread. I am so glad that you obviously grasp the "grafted branches" and you seem to have an understanding of the issue. But from my experience, I don't see many others who understand whet you have grasped through scripture. This, to me, shows a serious underlying problem. As the book of Romans writes, all of us that accept Yeshua as Messiah should be one body... so far I have yet to see that happen. I encourage you to spread the understanding you have of the Jew/Gentile relationship with others. God Bless.

Pray4 Israel-

I know that I worded it wrong and I do not know enough about "MJ" to say what I said. I sincerly apologize to you, I even do not know why I offended, I only know that I did, that is how little I know about your faith.

If this helps you some I was trying to say basically what A bilever said. That the faith [salvation] was for the Jews and they rejected the offers so we, the gentiles were grafted into what Jesus offered. If I am offending again, I am sorry I do not mean to. If you like, you can correct me so I can understand all of this.
 
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Talmid HaYarok

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14th February 2003 at 10:07 PM A_B_liever said this in Post #4
I have a question. In my humble study of Christian scripture and the Catholic Church, especially in reading the apostle Paul's letter to the romans (chapters 9-11), It is clear that Gentile Christians (such as myself) are as "grafted branches" on the true vine. We are also reminded By Jesus words to the Gentile woman "it is not right to give the food of the children to the Dogs" that we are indeed only transplants through our faith. Jesus made it clear that his mission on earth was to the Jews. However, when looking at the development of christianity in Rome, little is said about evangelization to the Jews. Further, Catholics (at least ones who are well versed in their faith) understand that they are effectively adopted jews. Jesus new covenant was the consumation of the previous 6 covenants. (1:adam and eve, 2:Noah, 3:Abraham, 4:Jacob (Isreal), 5:Moses, 6-David). At any rate, Did the Catholic Church Just develop and spread independent of Messianic Judiasm, or were they ever united or affiliated?
:scratch:

Well once you're grafted in you are part of the true vine, you're just not part of the original!

Of course originally under the apostles the whole church was essentially unified. Thats not to say there weren't important doctrinal debates (i.e Judaizers Vs. Gentile Christianity). By the time of the early church fathers though a varying degree of hostility between the Roman, Greek, and Semitic churches prevented peaceful unity. Not to say they weren't united in the face of the true heretics and persecutions.

I won't go into detail about the problems involving the greek church, but the Latin church in particular disliked the Jews. It would probably be more accurate to say that the Romans hated the Jews after the Jewish revolts, and unfortunately much of that carried over into the Roman church. Messianic Jews were formally excommunicated by Constantine at the Council of Nicea when he refused to allow any Jewish believers to participate. From that point on in order to be in leadership in the western church you first had to deny being Jewish. :( 

After those events (and many others) the Catholics and Jews (Messianic and Rabbinic) have always had an antagonism towards each other for the most part. The Jews have always suffered more because there have been so many less of them in numbers.

The other problem is simply one of numbers. There always have been and always will be a lot more Gentiles than Jews. So once the Messianic faith was opened up to Gentiles, they (Nazarenes) became an extreme minority practically over night. So they lacked the democratic strength of numbers.

This is not to say that the Jews rejected Yeshua, that is completely erroneous. We know historically that in the early 2nd century the two major sects of Judaism were the Natzerim (Nazarene jews) and the P'rushim (Pharisees). The Jewish people after the second Jewish revolt however became scattered and the ancient Nazarenes (unlike some Messianic Jews today) had no problem with marrying non-Jewish Christians. Plus the regular persecutions of Messianic Jews ended in their deaths, and the believers who rised up after them were often Gentiles. Without the Rabbinic Jews, then there probably wouldn't be enough unassimilated Jews around for a remnant to be preserved.

There is also to my knowledge no time period in Judae, Samaria, and Ethiopia where a Messianic community could not be found since the time of Yeshua. Though small and often refounded there has always been a remnant, however small.

Anyways, that hostility is history. There are also histories where we have been closer together as well.

One more recent story that I find particular interesting is the story of Brother Daniel. A holocaust survivor and an incredible Messianic Jew who lived with a group of monks in Israel. Ironically he wasn't allowed to take the vows of a Monk because he was Jewish. On the other hand, the country of Israel wouldn't grant him citizenship because he was a Catholic. None the less he accomplished a lot of great work in Israel on behalf of reconciling both groups. I'll have to look some time and see if I can find some internet resources on his life.
 
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