Messiah resurrected on Sabbath & the early church met on Sabbath

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Thekla

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The Pharisee fasted "twice of a Sabbath period", a figure of speech for "twice in a period of seven days of which Sabbath is the highest point in the period of time". Secondly, "sabbatou" (singular) is used in Lk 18:12 which contrasts with the plural used otherwise as "sabbaton".
Here's a comparison of useage -
sabbatou
Greek Concordance: σαββάτου (sabbatou) -- 13 Occurrences
sabbaton
Greek Concordance: σάββατον (sabbaton) -- 14 Occurrences

In my opinion, there is no reference to a "week" (on its own) in the NT. Contemporary Greek usage shows ebdoma* was the word used for "week".
Why would Greeks even use the term "Sabbath" -- they were not typically Jewish. One would need to reference the terminology of Hellenized Jews, to allow for Semiticisms.

Clearly the reference in Luke is to the period of a week, yet the term "ebdoma" is not used; this is not surprising as the Pharisee uses terminology appropriate to his culture.

שבעת
, to my knowledge.
Can you translate that into English, or Greek and English ?
 
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ananda

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Now you're injecting your own interpretation. You're right about this particular verse, but your reasoning is flawed. They were Jews writing mainly to Jews. I doubt anyone was confused... No, but it means that when transliterated, there's going to be the same similarities.... Etymology says alot about a culture's beliefs, so ignoring the etymology, and assuming they wouldn't carry it over to another language seems kind of silly...
We all inject our own interpretation to some degree, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
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ananda

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Because if you count it according to the scriptures, it always lands on a Sunday. Karaite Jews still always celebrate it on Sunday... Karaite Korner - Shavuot (Feast of Weeks)
I am of the perspective that Shavuot/Pentecost occurs 7 weeks after the beginning of the count the day after the High Sabbath - not the weekly sabbath.
 
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Mikeb85

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I am of the perspective that Shavuot/Pentecost occurs 7 weeks after the beginning of the count the day after the High Sabbath - not the weekly sabbath.

Interesting that you follow the Rabbinic method for dating it...

Counting of the Omer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would have figured Karaite Judaism would have appealed more to those who think scripture trumps tradition... (as Rabbinic Jews of course follow oral tradition)
 
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ananda

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Interesting that you follow the Rabbinic method for dating it...

Counting of the Omer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would have figured Karaite Judaism would have appealed more to those who think scripture trumps tradition... (as Rabbinic Jews of course follow oral tradition)
I have no problem with traditional interpretations of scripture unless scripture clearly points out that the traditional understanding is incorrect.

In this case, Scripture itself is not absolutely clear regarding the count - if it begins after the High Sabbath, or the weekly sabbath. However, the counting command is given in context of the first two moedim (Passover and Unleavened Bread) and the other moedim, so it stands to reason that it likely refers to the High Sabbath - not the weekly sabbath.
 
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Thanks you're correct about the 15th - I had a brain hiccup.

Yes, the 14th is Passover, and 15th is unleavened bread. So in my timeline:

14th - Passover, death & burial at the end of the 14th
15th - First Day of Unleavened Bread (High Sabbath), no burial, no work allowed on this day
16th - Messiah in tomb
17th - Messiah in tomb until His resurrection at the end of the 17th
18th - weekly sabbath, women & Peter saw empty tomb; Messiah met with Peter etc on road to Emmaus. Messiah met with the apostles in the upper room.

I am of the perspective that Shavuot/Pentecost occurs 7 weeks after the beginning of the count the day after the High Sabbath - not the weekly sabbath.

You've now finally hit upon a problem with your 'timeline'. Your types don't match reality.

You've got Messiah still in the tomb on firstfruits, the day after the High Sabbath, which began the count to pentecost (in your view).

I'll reiterate to look at post #169 for the 'mia ton sabbaton' explanation in light of this.
 
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ananda

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You've now finally hit upon a problem with your 'timeline'. Your types don't match reality. You've got Messiah still in the tomb on firstfruits, the day after the High Sabbath, which began the count to pentecost (in your view).
I'm suggesting a reinterpretation of how Messiah fulfilled firstfruits.

I suggest that, while Messiah's body was still in the tomb on firstfruits, Messiah's spirit was presented in the heavenly Temple as the wave and burnt offering to YHWH, on behalf of and to accept those who are faithful in Him.
 
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I'm suggesting a reinterpretation of how Messiah fulfilled firstfruits.

I suggest that, while Messiah's body was still in the tomb on firstfruits, Messiah's spirit was presented in the heavenly Temple as the wave and burnt offering to YHWH, on behalf of and to accept those who are faithful in Him.

Hmmm, two reasons to reject that. It sounds too spiritual without the reality of the God-with-us in the flesh. Christ said touch the wounds. It doesn't fit with John 20:17.

Jesus saith unto her [Mary], Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.
 
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ananda

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Hmmm, two reasons to reject that. It sounds too spiritual without the reality of the God-with-us in the flesh. Christ said touch the wounds. It doesn't fit with John 20:17.

Jesus saith unto her [Mary], Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.
His glorified body was not yet ascended.
 
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Because if you count it according to the scriptures, it always lands on a Sunday. Karaite Jews still always celebrate it on Sunday...
Karaite Korner - Shavuot (Feast of Weeks)

I wonder if Josephus, a Pharisee, didn't count from Sunday, the first of the sabbaths.

Antiquities, 10:5, 6
" But on the second day of unleavened bread, which is the sixteenth day of the month, they first partake of the fruits of the earth,"

"6. When a week of weeks has passed over after this sacrifice, (which weeks contain forty and nine days,) on the fiftieth day, which is Pentecost, "

A week of weeks can only be counted from Sun to Sat/Sab.

So, it looks as though at least Josephus argued as the LXX argued (see post #169).
 
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zeke37

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To add to this, technology is fun, it offers insight that we otherwise wouldn't have. Like being able to compare words from the oldest Bible in existence, and being able to translate things between several ancient and modern languages.

This thread also died fairly suddenly :(
the oldest one in existence is an inaccurate Samaritan copy of the Torah,
where there is 270 changes made to it compared to legit ones in Israel.
some outright....like where to worship God at.
 
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