Messiah resurrected on Sabbath & the early church met on Sabbath

[ananda]

Summary
Messiah died on Tuesday, and rose three full days and three full nights later on a Friday evening. The early believers gathered and worshipped on Friday evening after sunset or on Saturday morning - the Sabbath. Mainstream translators falsely changed "one of the Sabbaths" into "first [day] of the week aka Sunday".

Sunday or Sabbath?
"Ἐν δὲ τῇ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων (mia ton Sabbaton) συνηγμένων τῶν μαθητῶν τοῦ κλάσαι ἄρτον ..." - "Now on the one of the Sabbaths, having gathered together we break bread ..." (Acts 20:7)

How & why did mia ton sabbaton, literally translated "one of the Sabbaths", turn into "on the first day of the week aka Sunday" (the reading found in most mainstream translations)?! In the Greek, we find:

1. mia ("one"), not protos ("first");
2. hemera ("day") is not found in this verse (compare Mk 14:12 "prote/first hemera/day ton azymon/of unleavened bread");
3. sabbaton ("Sabbaths") is used, instead of ἑβδομάδας/ebedomas (Septuagint's word for "week", cf. Lev 23:15, Deu 16:9, etc.). The LXX uses h/ebdomadas to refer to "seven-day week" - Lev 23:15, Deu 16:9, etc, and by all indications, Messiah and the apostles were familiar with the LXX.Therefore it is reasonable to suggest that they would have used the word "h/ebdomadas" instead of "sabbaton" to clearly refer to the "seven-day week", and to avoid the ambiguity introduced by using a word which would likely make the reader think "Sabbath" instead.
​

It is extremely forced to interpolate "day" into the translated phrase, to wrest "mia"'s meaning from "one" to "first", to change the meaning of the plural "Sabbaton" - ("Sabbaths") into the singular word "week". Also, to my knowledge, nowhere else outside of the NT is "mia ton sabbaton" found translated "first day of the week aka Sunday".

"Sabbaton" - to my knowledge - is always translated "Sabbath" in the NT, except when it's paired with "mia ton"!? This hints to me of theological bias among translators who imposes the meaning on the Greek, to preserve the church's traditions regarding Sunday. I suggest that most mainstream translators translated the phrase as "first day of the week aka Sunday" because many centuries of church tradition demands it. Few would dare to rock the big boat called Christianity in such a dramatic way, and fewer would willingly place their personal academic careers in danger, in releasing a translation significantly different than most others and thus forcing billions to reexamine their fundamental beliefs about Sunday vs. the Sabbath. Lastly, I'm sure they also have translation sales and profits to think about, and corporate sponsors to answer to.

Finally, Mt 28:1; Mk 16:2; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1; Jn 20:19; Act 20:7 should all read "one of the Sabbaths" - not "first day of the week aka Sunday"!

Proposed Passion Week Timeline:
Here's my proposal for a revised timeline if the various passion accounts are read with the phraseology "one of the Sabbaths" instead of "on the first day of the week":

Messiah died on the first day (beginning) of the High Passover Sabbath (15 Aviv; Mar 27, 31ad/Tuesday) near sunset (Mt 27:66-28:1a: "they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch; now it was the evening of the sabbath"). After He died on the cross, on late Mar 27th (still on the Passover Sabbath, 15 Aviv), Joseph of Arimathaea placed His body in the tomb (Lk 23:51-56), and likely the Marys and Salome witnessed this. The Marys and Salome then rested, and immediately after the High Passover Sabbath was over, they went and purchased spices (Mk 16:1) to anoint Messiah's body. They had two days & nights to prepare the spices into an ointment before the weekly Sabbath (Lk 23:54-56). Thus Messiah rose exactly three full days and three full nights after His death on the cross, on the sunset of Mar 30, 31 a.d., Friday - 18 Aviv (which marked the beginning of the weekly Sabbath, the prote/first Sabbath counting to Shavuot (Mk 16:9)). The women, early on Mar 31, Saturday (before the sun rose, still on the weekly Sabbath, 18 Aviv; Mt 28:1b: ""As it began to dawn on one of the Sabbaths ...", Jn 20:1, Mk 16:2) went to the tomb intending to anoint Messiah's body, but they saw the angel and the empty tomb. They reported the missing body to the other disciples, and finally the resurrected Messiah appeared to the assembled disciples near the end of the weekly Sabbath (Jn 20:19), still on Saturday.

Also, Lev 6:9 states that the sacrifice shall burn 1. all night into 2. all morning. Note the order: all night first, then morning. My proposal shows precisely this & in that precise order!: Messiah was sacrified over the course of three full nights and days: 15 Aviv all night & morning, 16 Aviv all night & morning, and 17 Aviv all night & morning!

Finally, Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three full days and nights; to my knowledge there is not indicated fractions of a day. Also, by Messiah's own recorded testimony, "Are there not twelve hours in the day?" Jn 11:9. My theory includes 72 hours - three full days, and three full nights, and Messiah's testimony eliminates the possibility of inclusive counting of days. By Messiah's own testimony, He would be raised in three days and nights. Messiah proclaimed this to the disciples, priests, Pharisees, etc. I believe He would not have given the skeptic Pharisees and priests the least bit of wiggle room to claim that He failed to fulfill His own prediction.

 

[bugkiller]

Summary: Messiah died on Tuesday, and rose three full days and three full nights later on a Friday evening. The early believers gathered and worshipped on Friday evening after sunset or on Saturday morning - the Sabbath. Translators falsely changed "one of the Sabbaths" into "first [day] of the week aka Sunday".

Abstract:"Ἐν δὲ τῇ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων συνηγμένων τῶν μαθητῶν τοῦ κλάσαι ἄρτον ..." - "Now on the one of the Sabbaths, having gathered together we break bread ..." (Acts 20:7)

When did mia ton sabbaton, literally translated "one of the Sabbaths", turn into "on the first day of the week aka Sunday" (the reading found in most mainstream translations)?! In the Greek, we find:

1. mia ("one"), not protos ("first");
2. hemera ("day") is not found in this verse (compare Mk 14:12 "prote/first hemera/day ton azymon/of unleavened bread");
3. sabbaton ("Sabbaths") is used, instead of ἑβδομάδας/ebedomas (Septuagint's word for "week", cf. Lev 23:15, Deu 16:9, etc.). The LXX uses h/ebdomadas to refer to "seven-day week" - Lev 23:15, Deu 16:9, etc, and by all indications, Messiah and the apostles were familiar with the LXX.Therefore it is reasonable to suggest that they would have used the word "h/ebdomadas" instead of "sabbaton" to clearly refer to the "seven-day week", and to avoid the ambiguity introduced by using a word which would likely make the reader think "Sabbath" instead.

It is extremely forced to interpolate "day" into the translated phrase, to wrest "mia"'s meaning from "one" to "first", to change the meaning of the plural "Sabbaton" - ("Sabbaths") into the singular word "week". Also, to my knowledge, nowhere else outside of the NT is "mia ton sabbaton" found translated "first day of the week aka Sunday".

"Sabbaton" - to my knowledge - is always translated "Sabbath" in the NT, except when it's paired with "mia ton"!? This hints to me of theological bias among translators who imposes the meaning on the Greek, to preserve the church's traditions regarding Sunday.

Mt 28:1; Mk 16:2; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1; Jn 20:19; Act 20:7 should all read "one of the Sabbaths" - not "first day of the week aka Sunday"!:

My proposal for a revised timeline if the various passion accounts are read with the phraseology "one of the Sabbaths" instead of "on the first day of the week":

Messiah died on the first day (beginning) of the High Passover Sabbath (15 Aviv; Mar 27, 31ad/Tuesday) at sunset (Mt 27:66-28:1a: "they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch; now it was the evening of the sabbath"). After He died on the cross, on late Mar 27th (still on the Passover Sabbath, 15 Aviv), Joseph of Arimathaea placed His body in the tomb (Lk 23:51-56), and likely the Marys and Salome witnessed this. The Marys and Salome then rested, and immediately after the High Passover Sabbath was over, they went and purchased spices (Mk 16:1) to anoint Messiah's body. They had two days & nights to prepare the spices into an ointment before the weekly Sabbath (Lk 23:54-56). Thus Messiah rose exactly three full days and three full nights after His death on the cross, on the sunset of Mar 30, 31 a.d., Friday - 18 Aviv (which marked the beginning of the weekly Sabbath, the prote/first Sabbath counting to Shavuot (Mk 16:9)). The Marys and Salome, early on Mar 31, Saturday (before the sun rose, still on the weekly Sabbath, 18 Aviv; Mt 28:1b: ""As it began to dawn on one of the Sabbaths ...", Jn 20:1, Mk 16:2) went to the tomb intending to anoint Messiah's body, but they saw the angel and the empty tomb. They reported the missing body to the other disciples, and finally the resurrected Messiah appeared to the assembled disciples near the end of the weekly Sabbath (Jn 20:19), still on Saturday.

Also, Lev 6:9 states that the sacrifice shall burn 1. all night into 2. all morning. Note the order: all night first, then morning. My proposal shows precisely this & in that precise order!: Messiah was sacrified over the course of three full nights and days: 15 Aviv all night & morning, 16 Aviv all night & morning, and 17 Aviv all night & morning!

Finally, Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three full days and nights; to my knowledge there is not indicated fractions of a day. Also, by Messiah's own recorded testimony, "Are there not twelve hours in the day?" Jn 11:9. My theory includes 72 hours - three full days, and three full nights. By Messiah's own testimony, He would be raised in three days and nights. Messiah proclaimed this to the disciples, priests, Pharisees, etc. I believe He would not have given them the least bit of wiggle room to claim that He failed to fulfill His own prediction.

It appears to me the law and customs of the Jews is being ignored in this presentation.

There is no requirement for an exact 72 hour period anywhere in the Scripture.

bugkiller

 

[PaladinValer]

Nonsense. He passed on Friday, was raised on Sunday, and only ancient heresy says otherwise.

 

[Standing Up]

There's a few things wrong with the OP.

Messiah died on the first day (beginning) of the High Passover Sabbath (15 Aviv; Mar 27, 31ad/Tuesday) at sunset (Mt 27:66-28:1a: "they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch; now it was the evening of the sabbath"). After He died on the cross, on late Mar 27th (still on the Passover Sabbath, 15 Aviv), Joseph of Arimathaea placed His body in the tomb (Lk 23:51-56), and likely the Marys and Salome witnessed this. The Marys and Salome then rested, and immediately after the High Passover Sabbath was over, they went and purchased spices (Mk 16:1) to anoint Messiah's body. They had two days & nights to prepare the spices into an ointment before the weekly Sabbath (Lk 23:54-56). Thus Messiah rose exactly three full days and three full nights after His death on the cross, on the sunset of Mar 30, 31 a.d., Friday - 18 Aviv (which marked the beginning of the weekly Sabbath, the prote/first Sabbath counting to Shavuot (Mk 16:9)). The Marys and Salome, early on Mar 31, Saturday (before the sun rose, still on the weekly Sabbath, 18 Aviv; Mt 28:1b: ""As it began to dawn on one of the Sabbaths ...", Jn 20:1, Mk 16:2) went to the tomb intending to anoint Messiah's body, but they saw the angel and the empty tomb. They reported the missing body to the other disciples, and finally the resurrected Messiah appeared to the assembled disciples near the end of the weekly Sabbath (Jn 20:19), still on Saturday."

1) He didn't die at sunset. Lk. 23:44, Mk 15:34 suggests near 3pm (ninth hour). But the OP has to say at sunset in order to force the 3 days/nights idea.

2) Jesus appeared to the disciples on a Sunday, not Sabbath. It was the first Sunday counting toward Pentecost.

3) Given the OP timeline, the high passover sabbath was over when Joseph put Jesus in the tomb. IOW, the Mary's would not have needed to rest.

'Nuff for now.

 

[Standing Up]

Nonsense. He passed on Friday, was raised on Sunday, and only ancient heresy says otherwise.

Not really. This is the Roman easter view only.

 

[Standing Up]

It appears to me the law and customs of the Jews is being ignored in this presentation.

There is no requirement for an exact 72 hour period anywhere in the Scripture.

bugkiller

He has that right, though the wrong times and implications.

"Also, Lev 6:9 states that the sacrifice shall burn 1. all night into 2. all morning. Note the order: all night first, then morning. My proposal shows precisely this & in that precise order!: Messiah was sacrified over the course of three full nights and days: 15 Aviv all night & morning, 16 Aviv all night & morning, and 17 Aviv all night & morning!"

It was a Roman idea that the 3 day/night count would begin and end in reference to the tomb. Scripture and tradition count from sufferings (from Passover start through arrest, beatings, crucifixion) to resurrection glory.

 

[ananda]

There's a few things wrong with the OP. 1) He didn't die at sunset. Lk. 23:44, Mk 15:34 suggests near 3pm (ninth hour). But the OP has to say at sunset in order to force the 3 days/nights idea.

I am open to the possibility that Messiah may have died earlier than exactly on the turn from 14 Aviv to 15 Aviv. Even if the time of His death is moved back to 3pm on 14 Aviv, we can simply move His resurrection back to 3pm on 17 Aviv, still making it exactly three days and three nights. The rest of my claim still stands.

2) Jesus appeared to the disciples on a Sunday, not Sabbath. It was the first Sunday counting toward Pentecost.

This is your assertion, but where is your data to support it? I contend that He appeared to the disciples on Saturday, on the Sabbath "mia ton Sabbaton" - this was the point of my OP, and the data I provided:

Οὔσης οὖν ὀψίας τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκείνῃ τῇ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων (mia ton Sabbaton) καὶ τῶν θυρῶν κεκλεισμένων ὅπου ἦσαν οἱ μαθηταὶ συνηγμένοι διὰ τὸν φόβον τῶν Ἰουδαίων ἦλθεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς καὶ ἔστη εἰς τὸ μέσον καὶ λέγει αὐτοῖς Εἰρήνη ὑμῖν - Jn 20:19 - When therefore it was evening, on that day, one of the Sabbaths, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
​

Where's your data?

3) Given the OP timeline, the high passover sabbath was over when Joseph put Jesus in the tomb. IOW, the Mary's would not have needed to rest.

No, go back and re-read my timeline. According to my OP, or even according to your first point, Messiah was buried on the beginning (or just before) the High Passover Sabbath started. Therefore, the Marys and Salome rested right after the burial. The next day, after the High Sabbath was over, they went and purchased spices to prepare into perfumes.

 

[ananda]

It was a Roman idea that the 3 day/night count would begin and end in reference to the tomb. Scripture and tradition count from sufferings (from Passover start through arrest, beatings, crucifixion) to resurrection glory.

This is not simply a "Roman idea". This was attested to by Messiah Himself:

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Jn 2:19

Note that Messiah Himself related that His death would mark the beginning of the 3 day & night count - not from the beginning of His sufferings.

 

[Frogster]

there is even an aramaic that translates sabby as sunday.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
1 cor 16:2 On every Sunday, let each person of you lay aside in his house and keep that which he can, so that when I come there will be no collections.

besides, that is not keeping sabby as far as the church goes, and it was also the time when people were off from work, just like today, i might find it convenient to gather on sunday.

the jewish christians in antiock, were not living as jews, peter, barnabas, paul, and the rest of the jews, that is a fact.

 

[PaladinValer]

Not really. This is the Roman easter view only.

Tell that to the Eastern Orthodox and we Anglicans...and the Lutherans, Moravians, and Reformed Protestants too for good measure.

 

[Standing Up]

Tell that to the Eastern Orthodox and we Anglicans...and the Lutherans, Moravians, and Reformed Protestants too for good measure.

To all, that's the Roman easter view.

 

[Standing Up]

I am open to the possibility that Messiah may have died earlier than exactly on the turn from 14 Aviv to 15 Aviv. Even if the time of His death is moved back to 3pm on 14 Aviv, we can simply move His resurrection back to 3pm on 17 Aviv, still making it exactly three days and three nights. The rest of my claim still stands.

Then you'd be making the same error you've accused Rome of making; to wit, counting partial days as full days. IOW, now you've got Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. 4 days.

This is your assertion, but where is your data to support it? I contend that He appeared to the disciples on Saturday, on the Sabbath "mia ton Sabbaton" - this was the point of my OP, and the data I provided:

Οὔσης οὖν ὀψίας τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκείνῃ τῇ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων (mia ton Sabbaton) καὶ τῶν θυρῶν κεκλεισμένων ὅπου ἦσαν οἱ μαθηταὶ συνηγμένοι διὰ τὸν φόβον τῶν Ἰουδαίων ἦλθεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς καὶ ἔστη εἰς τὸ μέσον καὶ λέγει αὐτοῖς Εἰρήνη ὑμῖν - Jn 20:19 - When therefore it was evening, on that day, one of the Sabbaths, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
​

Where's your data?

I agree you were consistent in your application or reinterpreting mia from first to one. It just doesn't work.

No, go back and re-read my timeline. According to my OP, or even according to your first point, Messiah was buried on the beginning (or just before) the High Passover Sabbath started. Therefore, the Marys and Salome rested right after the burial. The next day, after the High Sabbath was over, they went and purchased spices to prepare into perfumes.

Okay, but why would they rest on the 16th? It wasn't a high sabbath or weekly sabbath.

 

[Standing Up]

This is not simply a "Roman idea". This was attested to by Messiah Himself:

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Jn 2:19

Note that Messiah Himself related that His death would mark the beginning of the 3 day & night count - not from the beginning of His sufferings.

You've stumbled upon a very interesting distinction. You are right. To His detractors, it is what He says. But always to disciples He starts from sufferings.

Lk. 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? [in His explanation]

 

[ananda]

Then you'd be making the same error you've accused Rome of making; to wit, counting partial days as full days. IOW, now you've got Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. 4 days.

Not at all.

Tuesday 3pm to Friday 3pm = 72 hours = 3 full nights & 3 full days.
Or, Tuesday sunset to Friday sunset = 72 hours = 3 full nights & 3 full days.

I agree you were consistent in your application or reinterpreting mia from first to one. It just doesn't work.

Because? Where's your data?

Okay, but why would they rest on the 16th? It wasn't a high sabbath or weekly sabbath.

They rested on 15 Aviv. This is the High Sabbath.

His death happened on or right before 15 Aviv started on sunset on Tuesday evening. 15 Aviv lasted from sunset Tuesday to sunset Wednesday. The women rested during this period.

 

[ananda]

You've stumbled upon a very interesting distinction. You are right. To His detractors, it is what He says. But always to disciples He starts from sufferings. Lk. 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? [in His explanation]

Lk 24:26 does not give a time period. Jn 2:19 does, and it clearly states three days.

Are you claiming that Messiah gave false information to unbelievers?

 

[Standing Up]

Not at all.

Tuesday 3pm to Friday 3pm = 72 hours = 3 full nights & 3 full days.
Or, Tuesday sunset to Friday sunset = 72 hours = 3 full nights & 3 full days.

You're not counting like they counted. Sunset marked the end and beginning of a day.

3 days and 3 nights is what Christ said. NOT 72 hours.

So, to posit the idea of death at 3pm and ignore that it is still day 1 is, um, silly. Surely you know this.

 

[bugkiller]

I am open to the possibility that Messiah may have died earlier than exactly on the turn from 14 Aviv to 15 Aviv. Even if the time of His death is moved back to 3pm on 14 Aviv, we can simply move His resurrection back to 3pm on 17 Aviv, still making it exactly three days and three nights. The rest of my claim still stands.

This is your assertion, but where is your data to support it? I contend that He appeared to the disciples on Saturday, on the Sabbath "mia ton Sabbaton" - this was the point of my OP, and the data I provided:

Οὔσης οὖν ὀψίας τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκείνῃ τῇ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων (mia ton Sabbaton) καὶ τῶν θυρῶν κεκλεισμένων ὅπου ἦσαν οἱ μαθηταὶ συνηγμένοι διὰ τὸν φόβον τῶν Ἰουδαίων ἦλθεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς καὶ ἔστη εἰς τὸ μέσον καὶ λέγει αὐτοῖς Εἰρήνη ὑμῖν - Jn 20:19 - When therefore it was evening, on that day, one of the Sabbaths, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
​

Where's your data?

No, go back and re-read my timeline. According to my OP, or even according to your first point, Messiah was buried on the beginning (or just before) the High Passover Sabbath started. Therefore, the Marys and Salome rested right after the burial. The next day, after the High Sabbath was over, they went and purchased spices to prepare into perfumes.

The phrase "mia ton Sabbaton" is never taken to mean the first sabbath. When Mary was at the tomb Jesus had appeared to no one prior to this. Mary went to the tomb after the sabbath.

bugkiller

 

[ananda]

You're not counting like they counted. Sunset marked the end and beginning of a day. 3 days and 3 nights is what Christ said. NOT 72 hours. So, to posit the idea of death at 3pm and ignore that it is still day 1 is, um, silly. Surely you know this.

Yes, sunset marked the end & beginning of the day. Again, this is exactly what I wrote.

3 days and 3 nights is what Christ said. NOT 72 hours.

As I've already wrote in the OP, Messiah said "Are there not twelve hours in the day?" Jn 11:9 Messiah Himself defined the period of a day (and by implication, the night). 3 days + 3 nights = 72 hours. You're not disagreeing with me - you're arguing with Messiah!

 

[ananda]

The phrase "mia ton Sabbaton" is never taken to mean the first sabbath.

"mia ton Sabbaton" means "one of the Sabbaths". Not "first sabbath" or "first [day] of the week".

When Mary was at the tomb Jesus had appeared to no one prior to this. Mary went to the tomb after the sabbath.

Chapter & verse please.

 

[ViaCrucis]

"mia ton Sabbaton" means "one of the Sabbaths". Not "first sabbath" or "first [day] of the week".

Chapter & verse please.

Luke 24. The whole chapter.

But especially this part

"That very day [the first day of the week, after the Sabbath, c.f. Luke 23:50-56] two of them were going to a village named Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem, and they were talking with each other about all these things that had happened. While they were talking and discussing together, Jesus Himself drew near and went with them. But their eyes were kept from recognizing Him. And He said to them, 'What is this conversation that you are holding with each other as you walk?' And they stood still, looking sad. Then one of them, named Cleopas, answered Him, 'Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened in these days?' And He said to them, 'What things?' And they said to Him, 'Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, a man who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, and how our chief priests and rulers delivered Him up to be condemned to death, and crucified Him. But we had hoped He was the One to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things happened."

After the Sabbath day, first day of the week, Jesus having been crucified three days prior. Jesus arose early on the first day of the week, after the Sabbath had concluded.

Luke's Gospel is clear on this matter.

-CryptoLutheran