Merry Christmas! ps. Santa, please bring ammo

[98cwitr]

Have you got experience in London?
If so, did you feel really vulnerable without weaponry?
Some american friends came to visit - I showed them around London.

They were surprised that I didn't much care that I had no weaponry on me and was happy about it.

No, but I have data. Why is the murder rate so high in Redbridge?

 

[dzheremi]

That's conflating two totally different issues.

Not really. It's recognizing how your argument seems to shift onto whichever vantage point makes guns look like a good solution, as in (e.g.) posts #93 and #96.

However, if you want to delve into a "tyranny deterrent" focus, which is the real purpose of the 2nd amendment anyway, I think that's on topic.

I don't think it actually does that, so no thanks. Maybe someone else will have that discussion with you, but I'm not interested.

It's because the fence is chain-link and we can see right through it.

Who's 'we' -- you and the gun in your pocket?

All? Not really. I'm out of ketchup right now, a gun isn't going to help me with that.

Hahaha. Fair enough.

Now we're just moving into an off topic discussion of economic policy. Make a new thread.

I don't think you can make a point about Mexico's ills vis-a-vis the United States without at least tangentially making a point about economic disparities and interdependence and the drug war, but okay. I trust anyone who wants to have a fleshed-out conversation concerning those things would make such a thread. Suffice it to say for this one that I don't think the answer to either countries' problems is for Mexico to liberalize its firearms laws, but that's neither here nor there, since I don't live there.

 

[durangodawood]

Have you got experience in London?
If so, did you feel really vulnerable without weaponry?
Some american friends came to visit - I showed them around London.

They were surprised that I didn't much care that I had no weaponry on me and was happy about it.

Been to London a few times, unarmed. USA people are easily freaked out by alarmist news media.

 

[durangodawood]

I will say that when the Queen goes out and about there seems to be some firepower on display. (I took this pic).

 

[98cwitr]

Not really. It's recognizing how your argument seems to shift onto whichever vantage point makes guns look like a good solution, as in (e.g.) posts #93 and #96.

One can have multiple perspectives on the same issue, yes?

I don't think it actually does that, so no thanks. Maybe someone else will have that discussion with you, but I'm not interested.

Sure it does. Look at Australia right now. Disarmed their population in 2019 and now they have "wellness camps"

Who's 'we' -- you and the gun in your pocket?

Those with eyes.

I don't think you can make a point about Mexico's ills vis-a-vis the United States without at least tangentially making a point about economic disparities and interdependence and the drug war, but okay. I trust anyone who wants to have a fleshed-out conversation concerning those things would make such a thread. Suffice it to say for this one that I don't think the answer to either countries' problems is for Mexico to liberalize its firearms laws, but that's neither here nor there, since I don't live there.

I think Mexico's situation proves at least two things:

1. Gun laws don't work.

2. It's about culture more than tool choices.

 

[98cwitr]

Been to London a few times, unarmed. USA people are easily freaked out by alarmist news media.

Redbridge?

 

[durangodawood]

Redbridge?

What tourist ever goes to Redbridge?

Pretty much every city has few high crime zones where youd be an idiot tourist to visit.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

No, but I have data.

I'm not bothered about proving you wrong or right. It's not for me to tell you what to do with guns, your cities or self defence.

As far as I can tell, your point is you want to be able to carry a knife or gun incase someone attacks you with a knife or a gun??

Why is the murder rate so high in Redbridge?

What rate are you getting??

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Been to London a few times, unarmed. USA people are easily freaked out by alarmist news media.

Just went this weekend.

Had a really nice time.

Do you remember your trip? Did you enjoy it? What did you do mostly?

 

[98cwitr]

I'm not bothered about proving you wrong or right. It's not for me to tell you what to do with guns, your cities or self defence.

As far as I can tell, your point is you want to be able to carry a knife or gun incase someone attacks you with a knife or a gun??

To be specific, one needs to be able to defend themselves with an equal force multiplier that they could possibly be attacked with. At that point it becomes a balance of applied kenetic energy versus minimizing collateral damage (I'm not going to defend my house with a cannon or grenade, for example). A knife is rather useless in a gun fight, for example. Most murders in the UK are committed with a knife or stabbing object though.

What rate are you getting??

https://www.met.police.uk/sd/stats-...IaMO_c_HmQwIj6tHr220-1638805575-0-gaNycGzNCD0

 

[All Englands Skies]

U.S. congressman posts family Christmas picture with guns, days after school shooting
View attachment 309129


A U.S. congressman on Saturday posted a Christmas picture of himself and what appeared to be his family, smiling and posing with an assortment of guns, just days after four teenagers were killed in a shooting at a Michigan high school.

"Merry Christmas! ps. Santa, please bring ammo," U.S. Representative Thomas Massie of Kentucky wrote on Twitter.
U.S. congressman posts family Christmas picture with guns, days after school shooting (msn.com)

Words fail me - OB

"All I want for Christmas is an L1A1 Self Loading Rifle!"

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

https://www.met.police.uk/sd/stats-...IaMO_c_HmQwIj6tHr220-1638805575-0-gaNycGzNCD0

So what murder numbers were you getting for that area for the year?

 

[durangodawood]

Just went this weekend.

Had a really nice time.

Do you remember your trip? Did you enjoy it? What did you do mostly?

Yes London was great. Was there in 2018, 2008, 2001, 1999. (I have family in Derby and Ascot).

Last trip I bike toured for 10 days From Chester, through Shropshire and the Cotwolds, then met family in London. Did lots of tourist things like Tate Britain, Greenwich, Cheswick House. General urban exploring. In 2008 it was December, so I got to tour Westminster Abbey and St Pauls with hardly any crowds, which was amazing.

 

[98cwitr]

So what murder numbers were you getting for that area for the year?

Between October 2020 and October 2021, the data shows 9 murders in Redbridge, 14 in Greenwich, and a total of 147 in London overall; July being the worst month at 16 murders.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Between October 2020 and October 2021, the data shows 9 murders in Redbridge, 14 in Greenwich, and a total of 147 in London overall; July being the worst month at 16 murders.

what were you getting for new york?

(please note: pretty sure homicide is different from murder - so that might be important)

 

[dzheremi]

Sure it does. Look at Australia right now. Disarmed their population in 2019 and now they have "wellness camps"

What specific act do you have in mind by bringing up 2019 in particular? I don't know about Australian gun laws, but a cursory Google search suggests that the most sweeping reform of Australian gun laws occurred in 1996 in the wake of the Port Arthur massacre, so I think it's a bit of a stretch (to put it quite mildly) to connect that to the establishment of quarantine camps 25 years later. Is your idea that if the Australians had the number or frequency of personal arms that are found in the United States of America, they would've successfully been able to resist their country's anti-covid measures? Because here in the USA, land of the free and the concealed carry, we have an apparently sizable number of individuals who can't handle being told they need to wear a mask in order to go grocery shopping. How would the introduction of guns help these situations?

Are things like the video below what you want to see more of? Because that's what actually happens in the United States, far and away from your fantasies of an armed population successfully resisting government overreach:

I think most of the world (Americans included) sees things like the confrontation in the above video and thinks "Woah...now there's a guy who does not need a gun!"

I think Mexico's situation proves at least two things:

1. Gun laws don't work.

2. It's about culture more than tool choices.

And my point in bringing up the drug war is not to even say anything about Mexico's gun laws or culture (again, I don't live there, so I don't think anything I say would provide much insight), but to highlight that I don't think this is telling the full story if it does not take into account the context in which a large number of these murders are occurring (namely, in fighting among the various drug cartels). It would be a bit like trying to explain the homicide rate in the United States without looking into our own economically depressed and deserted inner cities in which a large number of those homicides occur.

 

[98cwitr]

what were you getting for new york?

(please note: pretty sure homicide is different from murder - so that might be important)

472 in NYC between October 2020 and October 2021: NYPD CompStat 2.0

 

[Subduction Zone]

Between October 2020 and October 2021, the data shows 9 murders in Redbridge, 14 in Greenwich, and a total of 147 in London overall; July being the worst month at 16 murders.

Just think how much safer they would be if everyone was armed. London is about three times the population of Chicago. And there were three times as many murders in Chicago as London. So the numbers work out

Oops! I may have got that backwards. And the murder rate in Chicago is actually five times that of London and that means it is fifteen times that of London on a per capita basis:

After 3 years of progress, Chicago’s murder tally skyrockets in 2020

It is a good thing that we are so polite over here or else it could have been even worse.

 

[FireDragon76]

Is America THAT dangerous? The meme that America is a hellscape where you need a gun for every day protection is just a meme, right?

Mostly, yes.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Yes London was great. Was there in 2018, 2008, 2001, 1999. (I have family in Derby and Ascot).

Last trip I bike toured for 10 days From Chester, through Shropshire and the Cotwolds, then met family in London. Did lots of tourist things like Tate Britain, Greenwich, Cheswick House. General urban exploring. In 2008 it was December, so I got to tour Westminster Abbey and St Pauls with hardly any crowds, which was amazing.

Derby is great. I hope you got a chance to run around the peak district for a bit??