Merry Christmas! ps. Santa, please bring ammo

[Subduction Zone]

Is America THAT dangerous? The meme that America is a hellscape where you need a gun for every day protection is just a meme, right?

Yes, it is pretty bad. For self protection I like this particular model:

Spoiler

Hopefully hidden to protect sensitive types.

 

[98cwitr]

An arsenal is not needed for the security of one’s person and home. This is not Afghanistan.

You're right. Biden didn't give them those, and technically they weren't just left there and abandoned by the US military. The congressman actually had to pay for them with his own money.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

An armed society is a polite society.

It's actually not that polite. haha

 

[98cwitr]

It's actually not that polite. haha

It's why I conceal carry and not open carry, but whatever. Concealed carry is to carry politely

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

It's why I conceal carry and not open carry, but whatever. Concealed carry is to carry politely

you think if you're unarmed you will get knifed in your city.

If you are armed, you won't be murdered? Your city will not have a high murder rate?

 

[Subduction Zone]

An armed society is a polite society. Better than getting knifed in London and having no way to defend yourself.

I like Heinlein too. But he was wrong quite often. You might want to read this article:

Debunking the myth: "An armed society is a polite society" - Fabius Maximus website

 

[98cwitr]

you think if you're unarmed you will get knifed in your city.

If you are armed, you won't be murdered? Your city will not have a high murder rate?

I think as a Londoner that if someone were to pull a knife on me, I wouldn't have a way to meet that force multiplier with equal force. The UK doesn't seem to recognize the human right to defend one's self; adequately at least.

 

[98cwitr]

I like Heinlein too. But he was wrong quite often. You might want to read this article:

Debunking the myth: "An armed society is a polite society" - Fabius Maximus website

The logical conclusion is already being proven in the real world: Take guns away, people knife each other. Take knives away, people use clubs and rocks. The acute focus down on the tools used, rather than the root causes of murder, is the real problem and it's going completely unaddressed and being ignored. It is further exacerbated by the push to let more and more criminals out of prison early.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The logical conclusion is already being proven in the real world: Take guns away, people knife each other. Take knives away, people use clubs and rocks. The acute focus down on the tools used, rather than the root causes of murder, is the real problem and it's going completely unaddressed and being ignored. It is further exacerbated by the push to let more and more criminals out of prison early.

Sorry, but the data really does not support that. Murder rates are much lower in other first world countries than the US. In 2017 we were number five in the world. But all the other top ten countries were not first world countries, except for number ten which was South Africa.

Murder Rate by Country 2021

 

[Tinker Grey]

The logical conclusion is already being proven in the real world: Take guns away, people knife each other. Take knives away, people use clubs and rocks. The acute focus down on the tools used, rather than the root causes of murder, is the real problem and it's going completely unaddressed and being ignored. It is further exacerbated by the push to let more and more criminals out of prison early.

Really? The UK has 1/4 the murder rate of the US: List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

(Yeah, I know. People don't understand rates.)

 

[98cwitr]

Really? The UK has 1/4 the murder rate of the US: List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

(Yeah, I know. People don't understand rates.)

I see no reason to dismiss those murders on an account of quantitative measure though. Maybe the UK just has more who ascribe to a peaceful, less murderous culture; regardless of the tool chosen to be used.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

I think as a Londoner that if someone were to pull a knife on me, I wouldn't have a way to meet that force multiplier with equal force. The UK doesn't seem to recognize the human right to defend one's self; adequately at least.

Americans, those who want to use guns to defend themselves if something kicks off, I wonder what they think and feel when they come to the UK and have to walk around london without a gun or a knife??
Have you been? Did you feel really scared and nervous? vulnerable? hahaha

Any other americans on here been to london? What was your experience?

 

[98cwitr]

Sorry, but the data really does not support that. Murder rates are much lower in other first world countries than the US. In 2017 we were number five in the world. But all the other top ten countries were not first world countries, except for number ten which was South Africa.

Murder Rate by Country 2021

Everything to do with culture and nothing to do with the availability of firearms.

Example: Mexico: List of cities by murder rate - Wikipedia

 

[dzheremi]

Everything to do with culture and nothing to do with the availability of firearms.

Tell that to most of the world that the English at one time colonized or otherwise occupied. With their guns. That they had. And used.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Everything to do with culture and nothing to do with the availability of firearms.

Example: Mexico: List of cities by murder rate - Wikipedia

Culture is part of it. But do you think that guns are not readily available in Mexico? If you want to convince people find a city that has a high murder rate and no guns.

 

[98cwitr]

Tell that to most of the world that the English at one time colonized or otherwise occupied. With their guns. That they had. And used.

Great reason why the defenseless are so easily colonized (read "conquerable"), huh? If the Native Americans had been armed with equal firepower to the British, we'd be in a much different America (or we wouldn't be here at all).

Culture is part of it. But do you think that guns are not readily available in Mexico? If you want to convince people find a city that has a high murder rate and no guns.

Guns are all but illegal in Mexico. They have plenty of both: guns and gun restrictions. The laws simply don't work. The anti-gun folks want to pass more gun laws right? Well, Mexico is a great example of how that'll work out.

London had 120 murders Q1 2021, on par with the murder rate of NYC

Homicide victims in London in 2021 - murdermap

NYPD Announces Citywide Crime Statistics for June 2021

I wouldn't want to go to Redbridge unarmed: https://www.met.police.uk/sd/stats-...IaMO_c_HmQwIj6tHr220-1638805575-0-gaNycGzNCD0

 

[dzheremi]

Great reason why the defenseless are so easily colonized (read "conquerable"), huh? If the Native Americans had been armed with equal firepower to the British, we'd be in a much different America (or we wouldn't be here at all).

So which do you want -- "Guns will keep the king of England out of our faces", or "It has nothing to do with guns"? You seem to be wanting to play both sides of the fence here: when guns can be pointed to as the difference between the USA's startlingly high murder rate vis-a-vis the rest of the world, it has nothing to do with guns, but when guns can be pointed to as a reason for something good (resisting colonization), then it has everything to do with guns and anyone who wants to reduce their availability must be wanting to do something nefarious.

Maybe seeing guns as the solution to all of life's problems is one of those 'cultural problems'...

Or is it only other countries that have cultural problems that make them less than ideal places to be awash in guns, compared to the USA?

Guns are all but illegal in Mexico. They have plenty of both: guns and gun restrictions. The laws simply don't work. The anti-gun folks want to pass more gun laws right? Well, Mexico is a great example of how that'll work out.

How so? Is the USA so blessed as to be dwarfed economically by a much more powerful northern neighbor that is also insatiably addicted to the drugs it produces/is a conduit for? What shocking information do you know about Canada that the average American doesn't?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Protect that valueable stuff from people who presumably don't have it themselves?

If I'm at the stage where I have to arm up like that, to protect valuables - I'd assume I'm part of a society on the brink of imploding. It would actually be pretty worrying and having guns like that would be little comfort to me I'd think haha

And remember that this is a man elected to represent that society... if he thinks it's on the verge of implosion, perhaps he knows something we don't?

Or maybe he's had enough of Christ, and is looking to put the Samuel Colt back in Christmas.

 

[98cwitr]

So which do you want -- "Guns will keep the king of England out of our faces", or "It has nothing to do with guns"?

That's conflating two totally different issues. However, if you want to delve into a "tyranny deterrent" focus, which is the real purpose of the 2nd amendment anyway, I think that's on topic.

You seem to be wanting to play both sides of the fence here: when guns can be pointed to as the difference between the USA's startlingly high murder rate vis-a-vis the rest of the world, it has nothing to do with guns, but when guns can be pointed to as a reason for something good (resisting colonization), then it has everything to do with guns and anyone who wants to reduce their availability must be wanting to do something nefarious.

It's because the fence is chain-link and we can see right through it.

Maybe seeing guns as the solution to all of life's problems is one of those 'cultural problems'...

All? Not really. I'm out of ketchup right now, a gun isn't going to help me with that.

Or is it only other countries that have cultural problems that make them less than ideal places to be awash in guns, compared to the USA?

Oh not at all. I think America is the melting pot of cultural problems. We literally invite them here.

How so? Is the USA so blessed as to be dwarfed economically by a much more powerful northern neighbor that is also insatiably addicted to the drugs it produces/is a conduit for? What shocking information do you know about Canada that the average American doesn't?

Now we're just moving into an off topic discussion of economic policy. Make a new thread.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

I think as a Londoner that if someone were to pull a knife on me, I wouldn't have a way to meet that force multiplier with equal force. The UK doesn't seem to recognize the human right to defend one's self; adequately at least.

Have you got experience in London?
If so, did you feel really vulnerable without weaponry?
Some american friends came to visit - I showed them around London.

They were surprised that I didn't much care that I had no weaponry on me and was happy about it.