Merits of Christianity if supernatural claims are false

[cloudyday2]

If you are a Christian think about how you feel about Islam or Buddhism. Probably you think Muhammad and Buddha were well-intentioned, charismatic, ingenious, ... but you don't think they had a special calling from God or that their supernatural claims were true.

So apply that same thinking to Jesus and Christianity. Would Christianity have merit relative to other world religions if the supernatural claims were false? Buddhism clearly has a lot of merit. Secular people often study Buddhism for its psychological insights or practice meditation for its health benefits.

I suppose there is some merit to believing something that can give your life a purpose - even if you are believing something false. Even Scientology has some merit by that measure.

For a person who doesn't believe in Christianity's supernatural claims is there any merit to the religion?

 

[DennisTate]

Matthew chapters 5, 6, 7 would be one of the most brilliant dissertations I have ever read.......... no matter how much power was really there behind the words...

Frankly..... Matthew chapter 4 reminds me of many near death experience accounts..... and forty days of fasting can produce a near death experience.

 

[devin553344]

Yes, what you're missing is that God speaks to us thru the Holy Spirit. And He makes Himself known. And perhaps that is supernatural.

It's my understanding that Buddha had a serpent talk to him: Mucalinda - Wikipedia. And that is strange to a Christian probably.

 

[Resha Caner]

For a person who doesn't believe in Christianity's supernatural claims is there any merit to the religion?

I assume you mean people who deny Jesus is the Christ. In that case, the answer is no.

Buddhism clearly has a lot of merit.

No, it doesn't.

If you are a Christian think about how you feel about Islam or Buddhism. Probably you think Muhammad and Buddha were well-intentioned, charismatic, ingenious, ... but you don't think they had a special calling from God or that their supernatural claims were true.

I would say everyone has a calling from God. Whether they fulfill that calling is another matter. We'll never know whether Mohamed or Buddha heard directly from God, but it's possible. If they did, the message was either distorted or discarded.

 

[Romans 8]

If you are a Christian think about how you feel about Islam or Buddhism. Probably you think Muhammad and Buddha were well-intentioned, charismatic, ingenious, ... but you don't think they had a special calling from God or that their supernatural claims were true.

So apply that same thinking to Jesus and Christianity. Would Christianity have merit relative to other world religions if the supernatural claims were false? Buddhism clearly has a lot of merit. Secular people often study Buddhism for its psychological insights or practice meditation for its health benefits.

I suppose there is some merit to believing something that can give your life a purpose - even if you are believing something false. Even Scientology has some merit by that measure.

For a person who doesn't believe in Christianity's supernatural claims is there any merit to the religion?

Buddhism and eastern religion are littered with miracles, albeit they're only fake accounts. Christianity has miracles working today despite the majority of Christians not believing in them.

Ask yourself this: Does eternal life in heaven offer any merit?

 

[MehGuy]

I think Christianity contains useful messages about suffering and how to transform our ordeals into something more positive. Fredrich Nietzsche's idea of slave morality and Christianity come to mind. You're talking about the largest religion in human history. Christianity had something special psychologically behind it, besides the "promise of an after life and a sense of purpose." Even if the messages behind Christianity are less defined and realized than Buddhist teachings.

As a former Christian now atheist, I personally cannot think of anything that had more of an impact on my own secular philosophy and outlook than my old religion.

 

[Anto9us]

1Co 15:19

If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

 

[HTacianas]

If you are a Christian think about how you feel about Islam or Buddhism. Probably you think Muhammad and Buddha were well-intentioned, charismatic, ingenious, ... but you don't think they had a special calling from God or that their supernatural claims were true.

So apply that same thinking to Jesus and Christianity. Would Christianity have merit relative to other world religions if the supernatural claims were false? Buddhism clearly has a lot of merit. Secular people often study Buddhism for its psychological insights or practice meditation for its health benefits.

I suppose there is some merit to believing something that can give your life a purpose - even if you are believing something false. Even Scientology has some merit by that measure.

For a person who doesn't believe in Christianity's supernatural claims is there any merit to the religion?

Look to a society that follows the teachings of Christianity and then compare it to a society that doesn't. That's rather easy for us to do by looking at the changes in American society over the last one hundred years.

How many people died between 1900 and 1950 from sexually transmitted diseases? And that was a time when there was no cure for them. Compare that number to the number who have died from sexually transmitted diseases from 1950 to the present. Compare illegitimate birth rates for the same periods. Then abortions...

Those are only from violating the teachings of Christianity on sexual morality alone. As society has moved away from Christianity it has brought incalculable levels of death and misery. Millions of deaths, millions of cases of misery from disease, millions of fatherless children.

I don't think I am interjecting my own bias in looking solely at the facts of history and concluding that American society would be better off following the traditions of Christianity whether a person believes in God or not.

 

[Anto9us]

I am re-reading Karen Armstrong's THE HISTORY OF GOD. She has much comparison of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism and Hinduism.

 

[Anto9us]

The central point of THE SUPERNATURAL in Christianity is that Christ rose from the dead. Paul seems to say (in that verse I quoted above and the whole chapter of 1 Cor 15) that if it is not true that Christ rose, Christians are of all people the most to be pitied, iow, other people should feel sorry for us if this central point of our faith is false.

 

[Anto9us]

There are things positive in all religions. Paul also quoted Greek poets like Aratus, Menander and Epimenides ("in him we live, move and have our being", etc.)

Yet Paul also claims that if the central 'supernatural' aspect of Christianity is false -- we are sunk, miserable, to be pitied -- however you want to word it.

I am sure that many people do 'find merit' in Christianity even if they do not believe that Christ rose from the dead.

But it is still a paradox to me about the other religions -- especially Islam which came AFTER Christianity.

I find that even among Christians who do firmly believe that Christ rose from the dead; there are many things certain Christians believe that I cannot swallow -- soul-sleep, a lack of free will, a flat earth that is only 6000 years old, and other things.

 

[Zoness]

If you are a Christian think about how you feel about Islam or Buddhism. Probably you think Muhammad and Buddha were well-intentioned, charismatic, ingenious, ... but you don't think they had a special calling from God or that their supernatural claims were true.

So apply that same thinking to Jesus and Christianity. Would Christianity have merit relative to other world religions if the supernatural claims were false? Buddhism clearly has a lot of merit. Secular people often study Buddhism for its psychological insights or practice meditation for its health benefits.

I suppose there is some merit to believing something that can give your life a purpose - even if you are believing something false. Even Scientology has some merit by that measure.

For a person who doesn't believe in Christianity's supernatural claims is there any merit to the religion?

I'm not sure, but I am inclined to say no. It has some nice maxims but most of them can be found in other religious and secular philosophy as well and many of them are tied to ancient Jewish law.

If you strip away the supernatural claims, what unique and positive ideals are you left with, in your opinion?

 

[Anto9us]

1Co 15:12
Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Co 15:13
But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co 15:14
And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co 15:15
Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co 15:16
For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co 15:19
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1Co 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:21
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

[Anto9us]

Paul was coming from a religion which was sharply divided about a resurrection. Pharisees and Sadducees jointly ran the Judaism of the time; Sadduccees did not believe in resurrection, angels - I guess you could say anything 'supernatural"... Pharisees did.

 

[FireDragon76]

Look to a society that follows the teachings of Christianity and then compare it to a society that doesn't. That's rather easy for us to do by looking at the changes in American society over the last one hundred years.

Japan seems sort of nice. And there's almost no Christians there.

How many people died between 1900 and 1950 from sexually transmitted diseases? And that was a time when there was no cure for them. Compare that number to the number who have died from sexually transmitted diseases from 1950 to the present. Compare illegitimate birth rates for the same periods. Then abortions...

Get help, man.

Honestly, I find this whole thread ridiculous. Spirituality is far too serious and personal a subject to cheapen it by trying to sell it like soap suds.

 

[awitch]

For a person who doesn't believe in Christianity's supernatural claims is there any merit to the religion?

Yes.
For me the take-away of Christianity is that people are worthy of forgiveness and we should look out for those of us who are less fortunate. Of course, these ideas aren't exclusive to any religion and I find they are usually drowned out by things like, blame, judgement, and which group of people should be ostracized.

 

[FireDragon76]

I'm not sure, but I am inclined to say no. It has some nice maxims but most of them can be found in other religious and secular philosophy as well and many of them are tied to ancient Jewish law.

If you strip away the supernatural claims, what unique and positive ideals are you left with, in your opinion?

"I'm very fond of Jesus Christ. He may be the most beautiful guy who ever walked the face of this earth. Any guy who said "Blessed are the poor. Blessed are the meek" has got to be a figure of unparalleled generosity and insight and madness.. . A man who declared himself to stand among the thieves, the prostitutes and the homeless. His position cannot be comprehended. It is an inhuman generosity. A generosity that would overthrow the world if it was embraced because nothing could weather that compassion. I'm not trying to alter the Jewish view of Jesus Christ. But to me, in spite of what I know about the history of legal Christianity, the figure of the man has touched me". - Leonard Cohen

The crazy thing is a liberal Jew understood Jesus better than most Christians here.

I don't think of Jesus as just another teacher. You can't say or do the things he did and be just another teacher. Buddha didn't hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors (who were really thieves, as Cohen notes). Confucius never forgave anybody sins. As Bishop John Shelby Spong said, Jesus brought God to a human level, people genuinely experienced God in him, he expanded their horizons of what it meant to be human. You don't necessarily gotta believe in miracles to believe that.

 

[HTacianas]

Japan seems sort of nice. And there's almost no Christians there.




Get help, man.

Honestly, I find this whole thread ridiculous. Spirituality is far too serious and personal a subject to cheapen it by trying to sell it like soap suds.

You'll find that I put much stock in non sequiturs. If you think I'm wrong about something please state how I'm wrong. If you prove it to me I'll change my mind. Anything other than that only gives you a bad reputation.

 

[FireDragon76]

You'll find that I put much stock in non sequiturs. If you think I'm wrong about something please state how I'm wrong. If you prove it to me I'll change my mind. Anything other than that only gives you a bad reputation.

People died from syphillis in droves until penecillin was discovered before WWII. IT is not true everything was so much better back in the day.

And just go read or watch Cider House Rules if you think life was so much better before Roe vs. wade.

 

[HTacianas]

People died from syphillis in droves until penecillin was discovered before WWII. IT is not true everything was so much better back in the day.

And just go read or watch Cider House Rules if you think life was so much better before Roe vs. wade.

How many people died from syphilis between 1900 and 1950?