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Men will seek death and will not find it

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by bniffty, Aug 31, 2021.

  1. bniffty

    bniffty New Member

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    Revelation 9-6 In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.

    I'm thinking of Bill Gates and his vaccines and the fact that he being an IT person could possibly put a backdoor in the code of the vaccine which could allow him to control a persons body , like re booting you every time you think your dying but you just keep re booting.

    Anyway there just my thoughts so what do you think is happening to these evil men , why can't they die ?
     
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  2. SamanthaAnastasia

    SamanthaAnastasia Just a library lady

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    No that tech doesn’t even exist yet.

    it can just be as simple as people joking *all the time* about wanting to die, saying they’re *just* joking but deep inside they’re not. Everybody 45 and under does that now. Now this is mostly just in the US and in the western world.

    im being metaphorical but it’s true. Think about everyone just being suicidal on a global level.

    it could be as simple as that.
     
  3. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Contex is always key to understand the meaning of a verse.
    The context of this verse is that of Gods judgement on the earth. Those people who were not sealed by God were to be tormented so they would seek death but not find it.

    It is a picture of the consquence of rejecting Jesus.
     
  4. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    HI this verse is at at time when the scorpion stinging locust type things are biting people and the torment of those stings will have them in a place like Job where he wished for death to make an end of it and death would not come. Now some may suicide in this time and indeed they will die you will not be like the coyote in the cartoon and fall off a cliff and pop up and then have a safe land on your head and pop up again. These are like locust but they have a king which the Bible says locust have no king. They could be some sort of demonic manifestation. I like you ideas about Bill Gates but I think he comes in more with what is the image of the beast and perhaps why no one can be forgiven who had taken the mark. If the mark merges your mind with a hive of the net or what Zuckerberg is calling the metaverse you may have pledged allegiance to teh beast and after being hooked up or chipped what ever perhaps you have surrendered free will from that point on .
     
  5. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No. Many of you have misunderstood with "death" God is talking about here.
     
  6. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Rev 9:3-6
    (3) And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
    (4) And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
    (5) And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
    (6) And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

    God is talking about the judgment of his unfaithful congregation.

    There are two types in the external covenant church. For example, in Matthew 25, note that "ALL" the virgins hear the call that the bridegroom is coming. The call is not that He is here, or look up in the sky, but that He is coming. It's not a rapture, it's a call that he's on the way. They have to also "go" to meet Him. The ones ready of the Spirit have oil to light their way and they "go" off to meet Him. The other virgins have to go to The Buyers and sellers, which is a synonym for the false prophets of the church, to try and obtain the oil. And they spend some time doing this. Of course, the parable shows that they will never make it to the wedding, for by the time they believe they have oil to "find" the wedding, the door has already been shut. For example, salvation is over, they are locked outside unable to find the entrance. For example, they never were truly saved!

    Revelation 9 also declares that at this appointed time, they seek to die in the Lord, but death flees from them. The Lord does not know them, and they cannot get into the wedding. The moral of the parable is, "Watch therefore," because you don't know when Jesus comes. He could have come and locked the door, and the unfaithful knew it not because they were too busy dealing with the buyers and sellers!

    Are they doomed? Yes! But doomed to be tormented by the locusts from the pit, desire to die and not be able to die in the Lord. It means there is NO CHANCE of SALVATION!

    Revelation 9:5-6
    • "And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
    • And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

    As incredible as it may seem, God has a magnificent salvation plan, and that plan includes a day of salvation and a day for the end of salvation. It is an appointed day (only known by God) when ALL Israel (Elect) shall have been saved. Then NOT ONE more will be saved afterward. It means by the time all Elect has been secured, those in the congregation who have NOT YET SEALED will be in deep trouble despite the fact that they have a desire to die (in christ) or seeking death (in christ) but they will not find salvation or salvation has been removed away from them by God...until Christ returns. That is what Revelation 9 is about!

    So...watch therefore, for man doesn't know half of what he thinks he knows.... :preach:
     
  7. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Once again...

    Revelation 9:5-6

    • "And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
    • And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."
    It is the language of, "men seeking death, and can't find it, and desiring to die, and death shall flee from them," is symbolism for salvation not being available to them (Revelation 14:3). They seek to die in the Lord, but they have waited too long and that time has passed.

    Therefore, this has NOTHING to do with physical death or physical torment that some people are deceived to believe from false teachers and authors.
     
  8. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They are alive and being tormented by angels and the final judgement day has not happened so it follows they are seeking relieve from their torment in death.

    If you think otherwise, please explain.
     
  9. SamanthaAnastasia

    SamanthaAnastasia Just a library lady

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    I mean I just think in it’s simplest terms it means they are suicidal.
    Like maybe there the famine or war or the other things that are going on during the end times.
    But I mean it could be that they cannot find salvation if they truly desired it, either.
     
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  10. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is not about "angels" tormenting humans with physical pains or anything like that. You need to learn to compare Scripture with Scripture to find out what is the torments of the scorpions are about. Try this verse for starter:

    Luk 10:19
    (19) Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

    Sounds like physical torments to you? Nope. But do you know what the power of the serpents and scorpions refer to?

    Rev 9:2-4
    (2) And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
    (3) And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
    (4) And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

    Do you know who are the scorpions of the earth? And what power do they use upon men without seal of God? Isn't it deceptions? God is NOT talking about some spiritual beings bringing physical torments to men. Spiritual Discernment.
     
  11. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    Folks, this "torment" period was only going to last for a literal FIVE MONTHS (Revelation 9:5). If you read the description of the "locusts" in this chapter, they had "as it were crowns like gold" and "hair as the hair of women".

    This is a vivid depiction of the Gallic G Roman helmet which was definitely being worn in the time around AD 60. We know this, because we have retrieved examples of this very same helmet in the rubbish pits of Colchester England, where the Romans battled with Queen Boudicca in AD 60 under Nero's reign. The "crowns like gold" were a narrow circlet of brass around the forehead portion of the helmet. The "hair as the hair of women" was the trailing horsehair mounted in a crest, a "crista", on top of the helmet. The "scorpion" imagery in Revelation 9:10 was about the Roman artillery weapon, which literally were called scorpions. Google them, if you want a picture. The torsion springs which operated this weapon the Romans referred to as "tormenta".

    These Roman soldiers were tormenting the Israelites during a literal five month period in AD 66, during the months when typically, real locusts tended to converge on the land of Israel. The Romans troops were then under the governor Gessius Florus, who at that time was doing his best to goad the Israelites into a rebellion against Rome by his oppressive treatment of them. Josephus catalogues this particularly tense period in Israel when they were being tormented by the Roman soldiers' abuse encouraged by Governor Florus (Wars 2.14.2-3).

    Florus succeeded in his intentions to foment an Israelite rebellion. In August of AD 66, the Zealot rebellion broke out in response to Florus's torment of the Jewish citizens. Eleazar the governor of the Temple broke the Temple's long-standing agreement with Rome, and forbad any further sacrifices to be made for the empire and the emperor. Roman troops in the Antonia Fortress were killed by the Zealots, and Masada was also taken from Roman control at that time.

    This is ANCIENT HISTORY, folks.
     
  12. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is not about suicide! It is about those people who have desired to be saved (death in Christ), or seeking salvation (death in Christ), but not able to find it. In other words, Salvation has ended after all elects have been secured and the locusts being loosed for that purpose. Selah.
     
  13. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sorry God did NOT talk about a literal five months here. Nothing in the book of Revelation is just a normal number or time without any symbolic, representational or spiritual meaning to it! Selah!

    The entire book of Revelation is a collage of cryptic numbers, figures, imagery, enigmatic representations, symbolism, analogies and metaphors. For me to agree with that would be like saying the one thousand year reign was just a normal one thousand years (as some Theologians did before 1000 years had passed). Or that the 7 churches simply spoke concerning those literal seven churches somewhere in Turkey. I can't agree with that as the seven are a "representation" a symbol of some deeper spiritual truth. For example, seven (7) being the number of completeness or the totality. There's not a single number in the book of Revelation that doesn't carry some symbolic spiritual significance. These numbers, like the imagery of the pit, dragon, smoke, locusts, stings, etc., aren't literal/physical, and so how can we think that we can take the 5 months out of this "symbolic context" and make it literally 5 months like you are trying to do. Nope! No more than saying the 2 Witnesses are literally two witnesses. It's contrary to the whole of Scripture. Especially from a book where numbers are so obviously used symbolically. For example the 42 months, the 144,000 sealed of Israel, the 24 elders before the throne, the 1000 year reign, the 10 horns of the Dragon, the 7 Spirits of God, the 2 witnesses, the 4 horsemen, the 12 stars in heaven, and so on and so on. The 5 months "represents" the time period between when God gives authority to open the bottomless bit or abyss and loose the spirit of Antichrist against His rebellious house, and the time when the house is left in ruins or desolated. This is a judgment for their rebellion in serving lawless man rather than God. As in Revelation 20 where Satan and his minions come against the camp of the saints, not against the world, which he already has enslaved. He gathers the nations against the camp of believers. He wants to extend his rule to the kingdom of God on earth. Revelation 9:1-2 correlates to Revelation chapter 20 when Satan is loosed from this same bottomless pit to assault the camp of the saints.

    Revelation 9:1-2
    • "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
    • And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."
    The messenger (star) that John saw had fallen was given the key to the bottomless pit by the Lord in order to render judgment upon his unrepenting church. This is just as God promised the fallen star, the messenger of the church, what would happen if he didn't repent from his evil. God promised that his (the star's) church would be removed out of its place. The same rule always applies, that Scripture interprets Scripture, God's word explains God's word, not man. And God interprets both the star that had fallen and the result of it if he didn't repent.

    Revelation 1:20
    • "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the messengers of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."
    The Lord Himself decyphers the mystery of the symbol of the star and the Candlestick (lampstand) in His word so that there can be no misunderstanding in this uncovering. The stars He reveals are actually the messengers of the churches, and the candlesticks He assures us are actually the churches. This has NOTHING to do with Roman and their soldiers at all, as you claimed. This is according to God's revelation of the mystery of this symbolism. Now we read further and discern the warning that God Himself specifically gives to the star that had fallen.

    Revelation 2:5
    • "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."
    So then we have God's interpretation of the heaven from which the star fell, exactly what the star that had fallen represented, and that God would indeed bring judgment upon that stars church by removing it out of its place if the messenger didn't remember from where he had fallen and repent. Allowing the Revelator to reveal this truth we see that God illustrates that it is because of this fallen star that the church is judged, and God removes it out of its place.

    Indeed, only Christ has the key to the bottomless pit and at the appointed time of judgment upon the fallen star will He loose the spirit of Satan from the pit that his church be removed out of its place. This removal of the candlestick (the church) is what darkens the world (Luke 8:16-17). For example, the light that was once there is put out or become dim when it is removed. These are spiritual truths concerning God's judgment upon lawless man, the fallen messenger that is ruling in His holy Temple as if he were God. The 5 months of this anguish upon the church for the messengers rebellion is the length of time of the great tribulation there. This great tribulation of the church is the same torment of those who are hurt by the locust-like deceivers who devour the greenery and fruitful fields that are representative of God's house. In other words, all those there within the congregation of God that are without the seal of God. Without the true security of the Spirit. It's the plague sent by God likened unto locusts upon the grass, to devastation and ruin.

    Sounds like God talking about Rome? Please! It is about God's judgment upon HIS OWN CONGREGATION. The locusts, frogs, horsemen, etc. in Revelation are symbolical of false prophets and Christs with the spirit of antichrist. Not some Roman soldiers wearing helmets with hair. Spiritual discernment.

    No. This has nothing to do with Roman History, a preterism fables.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2021
  14. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Seriously? Seem there are so many strange interpretations from the futurists camp without actually studying the Scripture and allow it to be its own interpreter. Not no conspiracy theories and YouTubes on the flavor of the month news.
     
  15. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    Hi TribuationSigns,

    There is no reason why the literal numbers in Revelation cannot also have a symbolic significance. And you are summarily dismissing Christ's own time limitation of just WHEN those "AT HAND" prophecies were "ABOUT TO BE hereafter" in John's own days.

    A plain ordinary reading of these terms dedicates those "AT HAND" prophecies to John's days - not 2,000 years and more down the road. To extend them to distant times from John's days is to turn Revelation into a pretzel.
     
  16. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    ???

    Can't you quote Scripture so we know what you are talking about.
     
  17. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    Literally, these were two individual former high priests named Ananus ben Annas and Joshua ben Gamaliel. The leaders of the moderate high priesthood party that was trying desperately to maintain order in Jerusalem. Their last recorded speeches to Israel are written in Josephus's writings just before they were murdered by the Idumeans and left unburied in the streets of Jerusalem.
     
  18. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Man-made speculation. We need to understand that interpretations belong to God, not Josephus. God defines His own terms. He is the ultimate authority on what Scripture means, not Josephus, or the vaunted theologians of the day imagining Roman conquerors, New Temples being rebuilt, or Russian attacks. Only God's Word is authoritative. But if we keep thinking just like the world, defining terms by the world's determination, looking for earthly definitions of stones, golden helmet with woman's hair, Jews, Famines, Lands, Rules, Captivity, thrones, then what we conclude will NOT be God's interpretations for our own. Not spiritual but carnal which is typical with premillennialists, Preterists, and some amillennialists.

    For example, it doesn't matter that history Or Josephus says that "almost" every stone was thrown down in 70 A.D., what matters is God didn't say almost every stone, and that we define terms by God's word rather than by man's attempted explanations. Then we find out that God was not actually talking about melting stones or blasting down stones of a physical Temple when He said "How is the gold become dim; how is the most fine gold changed; the stones of the sanctuary are poured out in the top of every street." ...especially today as we see all around us the reality of how the gold has become dim, the most fine gold changed, and the stones of the sanctuary being poured out in the top of every street. Then we can say with certainty that we understand how every stone was thrown down and the foundation stone rejected preceding its RESTORATION. Nevertheless, the Kingdom truly was being restored, the captivity was being returned and the Temple was being rebuilt, stone upon stone. Precious stones, some being gold and some being silver (1st Corinthians 3:12). ...if we will receive it. Do you?! Selah.
     
  19. 3 Resurrections

    3 Resurrections That's 666 YEARS, folks

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    I've done so before, as well as others having done so also, but don't mind listing them again.

    Revelation 1:3, "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND."

    Revelation 22:10, "And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for THE TIME IS AT HAND."

    These two "bookends" of Revelation with its introduction and conclusion sandwich ALL of the immediate future's prophetic content, (Revelation 10:4's sealed content excepted) and limit it to John's near future and THAT generation. According to GOD'S definition of terms when He said an "AT HAND" prophecy would be fulfilled (Ezekiel 12:21-28).

    Also Revelation 1:19 in the YLT. "Write the things that thou hast seen, and the things that are, and the things that ARE ABOUT TO COME after these things;" This was IMMINENT events for John's time.
     
  20. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No. Christ was talking about the Last Days that the "at hand" is referred to. It is the whole New Testament period. These are the last days, Christ did put away sin in the last days. This is the end of the age and has been since Christ went to the Cross. This is the last dispensation and has been since Christ went to the Cross. All these things agree perfectly with Scripture. But to call the end of the world (aion) the harvest time when the wheat is gathered in barns and the tares burned, obviously A.D. 70 is blatantly unbiblical. The Scripture is clear. There are two resurrections, the first in Christ. And the second at the end of the world when Christ returns. Neither resurrection was in A.D. 70 or in the book of Josephus.
     
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