Melchizedek's order

Hawkins · May 24, 2022

friend of said:
For it is declared: “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” (Hebrews 7:17 NIV)

This verse is talking about the Lord Jesus Christ. But there is something I don't quite understand about it. For someone to be of the order of something means to proceed from it, not precede it. If I am of the order of such and such, that means that such and such was before me, I was generated by it. How could Jesus proceed from the order of anyone, like Melchizedek, when He is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last? Shouldn't Melchizedek proceed from the order of Jesus Christ, who is eternal? Why would Jesus be bound by any order of procession?

Just who is Melchizedek anyway?

discuss

By the same token, He doesn't need to be a human, and a prophet either. Jesus has many roles and positions. It's more or less like you can be a CEO in one company while a director in another company. You can have multiple roles in different situations. High priest is a position acting between God and humans, as a mediator. In the Jewish concept back in Jesus' days, only the Levites can be accepted as high priests. The yearly high priest is also acting as a mediator between God and the Jews, only he can enter the Most Holy Place of the Tabernacle.

Jesus is in an even higher position regarding the role of mediator. He's thus said to be in the order of Melchizedek, it is to make a difference from the Levites. While a Levite priest represents a mediator between God and the Jews, Jesus represents the Mediator between God and all mankind.

ViaCrucis · May 24, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
I guess we understand this a little differently, it seems you don't believe in an eternal heaven that pre-existed the created order.

I don't believe that heaven is a place, or a dimension, or (etc); but has two uses in Scripture:

1) The heavens as distinct from the earth, i.e. all the stuff we see as earth-bound observers looking up. Where the sun, moon, and stars are.

2) Heaven as a euphemism for God (as in Matthew's use of "Kingdom of Heaven" in contrast to the other Synoptic Evangelist's use of "Kingdom of God") and as a reference to God's presence, power, and authority.

So when we read that our Lord Jesus ascended into the heavens and is seated at the right hand of God the Father, it doesn't mean that Jesus went into outer space; it means that Christ was taken up and given all power and authority.

I would argue, for example, that the Temple served as the meeting place of heaven and earth, when the Jewish high priest entered beyond the veil into the Holy of Holies he stepped, in a sense, into heaven, into the Divine Presence--the Shekinah.

-CryptoLutheran

Carl Emerson · May 24, 2022

friend of said:
Where is that in scripture?

The order would suggest He was not the only one in it.

'Neither beginning of time' would suggest this order existed before creation was began.

Carl Emerson · May 24, 2022

ViaCrucis said:
I don't believe that heaven is a place, or a dimension, or (etc); but has two uses in Scripture:

1) The heavens as distinct from the earth, i.e. all the stuff we see as earth-bound observers looking up. Where the sun, moon, and stars are.

2) Heaven as a euphemism for God (as in Matthew's use of "Kingdom of Heaven" in contrast to the other Synoptic Evangelist's use of "Kingdom of God") and as a reference to God's presence, power, and authority.

So when we read that our Lord Jesus ascended into the heavens and is seated at the right hand of God the Father, it doesn't mean that Jesus went into outer space; it means that Christ was taken up and given all power and authority.

I would argue, for example, that the Temple served as the meeting place of heaven and earth, when the Jewish high priest entered beyond the veil into the Holy of Holies he stepped, in a sense, into heaven, into the Divine Presence--the Shekinah.

-CryptoLutheran

John 14:
1 “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many rooms; if that were not so, I would have told you, because I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will take you to Myself, so that where I am, there you also will be.

ViaCrucis · May 24, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
John 14:
1 “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many rooms; if that were not so, I would have told you, because I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will take you to Myself, so that where I am, there you also will be.

I don't think God literally lives in a house either. I think Jesus is using house and rooms to indicate that even as He returns to the Father, so shall we be with Him--whether present in the body or absent from the body. We are, even now, members of God's Household and seated with Christ in heavenly places. Our home is in and with Christ. In this life, and in bodily death, and in the resurrection of the body and life of the Age to Come.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · May 24, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
The order would suggest He was not the only one in it.

'Neither beginning of time' would suggest this order existed before creation was began.

The word taxis can just mean "arrangement". It's also the word from which we get taxonomy, whereby we arrange living things in taxa: the "order of bears" or "the order of canines" or "the order of mammals". Order, in the sense of arrangement, or classification.

The "order of Melchizedek" simply suggests, "of the same sort of thing as Melchizedek", namely, like Melchizedek, Jesus was not not of the line of Aaron, or even a Levite--but of the line of David and Judah. Jesus, therefore, stands outside the priesthood of the Covenant made through Moses; it is much more like Melchizedek whose parents are never mentioned, whose priestly credentials are never explained--but was a priest and king. In like way, our Lord Jesus Christ stands as the Great High Priest, outside of the Levitical-Aaronic priesthood established by God as part of the Torah which He gave Israel.

He is greater than Moses, greater than Aaron, greater than all the patriarchs, all the prophets: He is the Messiah and the Eternal Son and Word of God made flesh. That's what the author to the Hebrews is trying to communicate in his epistle.

-CryptoLutheran

Clare73 · May 24, 2022

friend of said:
For it is declared: “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.” (Hebrews 7:17 NIV)

This verse is talking about the Lord Jesus Christ. But there is something I don't quite understand about it. For someone to be of the order of something means to proceed from it, not precede it. If I am of the order of such and such, that means that such and such was before me, I was generated by it. How could Jesus proceed from the order of anyone, like Melchizedek, when He is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last? Shouldn't Melchizedek proceed from the order of Jesus Christ, who is eternal? Why would Jesus be bound by any order of procession?

Just who is Melchizedek anyway?

discuss

Being in the order of something does not mean you proceed from (generated from within) it.

Being in the order of the Knights of the Round Table does not mean you proceed from it.

friend of · May 24, 2022

Clare73 said:
Being in the order of the Knights of the Round Table does not mean you proceed from it.

but in order to be a knight of the round table, the organization itself must exist before anyone can join it.

My question is, what order existed before Christ?

Clare73 · May 24, 2022

friend of said:
but in order to be a knight of the round table, the organization itself must exist before anyone can join it.

My question is, what order existed before Christ?

Well the Levitical priesthood of Aaron existed before Christ.

friend of · May 24, 2022

Clare73 said:
Well the Levitical priesthood of Aaron existed before Christ.

Yes but scripture doesn't say the Levitical priesthood had no begginning or ending. It also doesn't say that Christ is a high priest of the order of the Levitical priesthood

Clare73 · May 24, 2022

friend of said:
Yes but scripture doesn't say the Levitical priesthood had no begginning or ending. It also doesn't say that Christ is a high priest of the order of the Levitical priesthood

Melchizedek has no beginning or ending only in the narrative of the Biblical text, which silence of Scripture regarding his genealogy the writer of Hebrews (in accordance with Jewish interpretation) uses to portray him as a prefigure of Christ, presenting Melchizedek's priesthood as anticipating Christ's eternal existence and his unending priesthood.

That is the relationship Hebrews is presenting.

Hawkins · May 25, 2022

friend of said:
but in order to be a knight of the round table, the organization itself must exist before anyone can join it.

My question is, what order existed before Christ?

"I AM" is before Abraham. The more important point is that the Levitical priesthood is of the Jews while Melchizedek is not even a Jew. In terms of ranking the order of Melchizedek is human-facing instead of Jew-facing.

friend of · May 25, 2022

Hawkins said:
"I AM" is before Abraham. The more important point is that the Levitical priesthood is of the Jews while Melchizedek is not even a Jew. In terms of ranking the order of Melchizedek is human-facing instead of Jew-facing.

How do we know he's not a Jew?

Hawkins · May 25, 2022

friend of said:
How do we know he's not a Jew?

Abraham (and Lot as well) is a Jew, his other friends are not. Abraham then Isaac then Jacob marks the line of who Jews are.

Melchizedek's order

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