Melania Trump's prayer was a shot in the culture war.

[Kevin Ambrose]

Jesus way is the way of the Cross, not the way of Caesar.

I agree. But why leave government to evil men?

Don't you feel an obligation to your neighbor? Why surrender such an integral part of life to those who would wish you harm?

 

[The Barbarian]

Christian Nationalism is a necessary defense of the Christian people and faith due in large part to stances like your own.

It exists. And it isn't going anywhere.

Sorry. There is no Christian nationalism. There is just Christianity. Jesus rejected nationalism, which is why the Jewish elite rejected Him.

It's still going on. But His Church abides.

 

[Kevin Ambrose]

Sorry. There is no Christian nationalism. There is just Christianity. Jesus rejected nationalism, which is why the Jewish elite rejected Him.

It's still going on. But His Church abides.

Are you referring to the Pope advocating open borders?

 

[FireDragon76]

I agree. But why leave government to evil men?

Civil righteousness is present in pagans as well in Christians. Every society recognizes the moral law, as testified in many ancient philosophers and religious texts: "whatever is hurtful to you, do not do to others".

Don't you feel an obligation to your neighbor? Why surrender such an integral part of life to those who would wish you harm?

There is no distinctly Christian way to administer civil society. That's a confusion of Law and Gospel to believe there is.

 

[Kevin Ambrose]

Civil righteousness is present in pagans as well in Christians. Every society recognizes the moral law, as testified in many ancient philosophers and religious texts: "whatever is hurtful to you, do not do to others".



There is no distinctly Christian way to administer civil society. That's a confusion of Law and Gospel to believe there is.

Did Luther feel the same about Jews when he wrote "On the Jews and Their Lies" and advocated for the expulsion of an entire group based on a perceived threat to Christianity?

Not a position I agree with, of course. I am quite fond of our Jewish allies. But it seems Luther held them in much lower regard than "competent Turks".

A stance that might explain the current opinion of Lutherans.

 

[The Barbarian]

Did Luther feel the same about Jews when he wrote "On the Jews and Their Lies" and advocated for the expulsion of an entire group based on a perceived threat to Christianity?

Men are fallible. Luther, for all his love of God, courage to do what he believed to be right, and desire to do good, had appalling weaknesses.

As we all do. This is precisely why we don't want a "Christian government." As the founders noted, it led to corruption and evil in Europe, and they wanted no part of it.

 

[Kevin Ambrose]

Men are fallible. Luther, for all his love of God, courage to do what he believed to be right, and desire to do good, had appalling weaknesses.

As we all do. This is precisely why we don't want a "Christian government." As the founders noted, it led to corruption and evil in Europe, and they wanted no part of it.

Right so it's better to have a Pagan government completely divorced from the principles of God.

That makes much more sense.

 

[The Barbarian]

[Staff edit].

It's right on target. The notion of "declaring cultural war" against those who don't accept our religion is corrupt and contrary to God's will.

 

[FireDragon76]

Did Luther feel the same about Jews when he wrote "On the Jews and Their Lies" and advocated for the expulsion of an entire group based on a perceived threat to Christianity?

That's hardly the last word on the subject from a Lutheran perspective. In fact that book was criticized by contemporaries of Luther, even people that knew him. We are a confessional church which means the voice of one mortal man is not infallible.

 

[The Barbarian]

Right so it's better to have a Pagan government completely divorced from the principles of God.

As the founders made certain, we can't have a "Pagan" government, since government is required to be completely free of any religious activities whatever.

That's why we have, so far, avoided the horrors Europe experienced. Let's keep it that way.

Whenever men decide to step in and do for God what He is unwilling to do for Himself, we end up with evil. You can have a theocracy when He decides to do it for us. Until then, accept His wisdom in the matter.

 

[Kevin Ambrose]

As the founders made certain, we can't have a "Pagan" government, since government is required to be completely free of any religious activities whatever.

That's why we have, so far, avoided the horrors Europe experienced. Let's keep it that way.

Pagans can and do operate quite well in secularism. It's why they fight so hard to keep it.

 

[The Barbarian]

Pagans can and do operate quite well in secularism.

As do Christians.

Because experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of Religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. Enquire of the Teachers of Christianity for the ages in which it appeared in its greatest lustre; those of every sect, point to the ages prior to its incorporation with Civil policy. Propose a restoration of this primitive State in which its Teachers depended on the voluntary rewards of their flocks, many of them predict its downfall. On which Side ought their testimony to have greatest weight, when for or when against their interest?
James Madison, Against Religious Assessments

 

[FireDragon76]

As do Christians.

Christianity has flourished in the US despite being an unestablished faith by law, whereas in Europe it has lost public influence overwhelmingly, despite centuries of outlawing all other denominations. Nothing was more corrosive in Europe than the perception that Christianity and government went hand in hand. As Kierkegaard said, a society where everyone is a Christian is a society where no one is a Christian.

The leading reason that religious "nones" say for not being interested in the Church in the US is the politicization of religion. When you claim to have a spiritual message but you mostly seem motivated by political power, most people can be forgiven for being cynical.

 

[AndrewMicheals]

He brags about sexually assaulting women. He got caught in a huge "university" scam, and had to pay millions in restitution. He lies over all sorts of things, many of them obvious and inconsequential.

I have a problem with those things.

Hey buddy. Thanks for your response. I'm not going to debate but will say this. He did not brag about sexually assaulting women. He bragged about how they will allow you to sexually touch them if you have celebrity and money, which he does. If you're a dude, like myself. You know that's true. [Staff edit].

 

[The Barbarian]

Hey buddy. Thanks for your response. I'm not going to debate but will say this. He did not brag about sexually assaulting women.

He did it on a live mic. No way to dodge it.

He bragged about how they will allow you to sexually touch them if you have celebrity and money, which he does.

Power does make it easier to sexually assault people, yes. It doesn't mean it's not sexual assault.

[Staff edit].

 

[AndrewMicheals]

I'm not denying what he said. He said when you have money and fame beautiful women will let you do anything to them. You can grab them by the P. Hey, all I am saying is... He's right. Now am I bragging that I sexually assaulted women. Of course not. I'm just stating what is. If you have fame and money, women, not all but starlites who are looking for a big break or an attractive woman with a nice body looking for a rich dude will let you grab them by the P. It is what it is.

 

[The Barbarian]

I'm not denying what he said. He said when you have money and fame beautiful women will let you do anything to them. You can grab them by the P. Hey, all I am saying is... He's right.

Sexual assault, using money and fame instead of a knife. I get that.

Now am I bragging that I sexually assaulted women.

You seem to be bragging that he did.

 

[AndrewMicheals]

Sexual assault, using money and fame instead of a knife. I get that.



You seem to be bragging that he did.

What are you missing here bro? The women DJT are referring to are not victims but willing participates. He said on live mic, no dodging it, "...you can grab them..." Meaning they'll let you because they want something from you. If you're a dude who's been around the block a few time, you know its true.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

It's right on target. The notion of "declaring cultural war" against those who don't accept our religion is corrupt and contrary to God's will.

Thank you for standing for non-Christians.

 

[The Barbarian]

Thank you for standing for non-Christians.

When He talked about the Good Samaritan, Jesus wasn't saying "it's nice to help out people in trouble." Samaritans were hated by the Jews as apostates, worshipers of a false god, and heretics.

Luke 10:36“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

Today, He would be talking about the Good Muslim. The message is that theology won't save you, but love of God and your fellow man will.

But that's beside the point. The founders intended for people of all faiths to be protected in their worship, not just Christians. That is the law of the land.

Those who find that unpalatable should find a nation more to their liking.