Med Schools Denying Biological Sex

[muichimotsu]

So gender is a social construct but sex is a physical trait. Sex is male/female but gender is man/woman? I'm still a bit confused about how a female can be a man or a woman can be a male. I always thought a male was a man and a female was a woman but that is not the case?

It's because of the qualifier I brought up: cis man is that which is male and identifies as such, there's no clash in societal expectations that conflate sex and gender, but trans man would be someone that is female, but identifies as a man and seeks to live as such, like my friend, who has been growing a pretty good beard for a female (hormones vary, obviously, some cis men can't grow beards) and is generally accepted as such, though he is still not out to everyone, like my parents, who I feel like would be respectful though also have some slips like I still do, since I knew this person for 15+ years practically as a woman

There is a vernacular that conflates male/female and man/woman respectively and you'll see people try to make the argument based on a dictionary definition that uses man and woman to describe adult members of the male sex, but the state of age or sex are not in question with regards to trans men or women, it's that they are not identifying in regards to their sex when speaking about being a man or a woman, because that is in general understanding these days, meant to be broader in application, not just about what's between your legs, which is far better suited to be described by male/female or intersex, all terms about physical traits.

This image might be a good start

 

[muichimotsu]

Who cares about risks? Seriously? We are often talking about children here, children who don't even understand the risks.

If you are born a male and think you are a female or visa versa, yes its a delusion.
How can anyone think that is healthy. If people hate their body that much there is a reason for it, and those reasons are being overlooked and not even treated.
Did you even watch that video?
Those people all had hormones and surgery and they disagree with you.

We're not talking about children entirely, you're skewing the discussion by fixating on one aspect as if that's all that is involved versus adults making these decisions that are no more your business than whether they are the sex you are and use the bathroom you do in public. Or are you admitting that is your concern? In which case you've got problems of your own to deal with.

No it isn't, because no one's saying that, you're making a blatant strawman, since male/female is not the designation in terms of gender identity

They can disagree, it means that we need improvements and we have generally made it a process to go through transition and GRS that involves a few years of various things, including living as the opposite gender to get a more accurate assessment psychologically.

 

[coffee4u]

actually research has shown that transsexuals have significant histories of abuse because they are transsexuals. One study showed that 60% of transsexuals were physically beaten by parents on multiple occasions related specifically to their gender non-conformity.

Corliss HL, Cochran SD, Mays VM . Reports of parental maltreatment during childhood in a United States population-based survey of homosexual, bisexual and heterosexual adults. Child Abuse Negl 2012

Nuttbrock L, Hwahng S, Bockting W, Rosenblum A, Mason M, Macri M et al. Psychiatric impact of gender-related abuse across the life course of male-to-female transgender persons. J Sex Res 2018

Those parents didn't suddenly one day go from loving supportive parents to abusive beasts because their son put on a dress, they were abusive before their child came out as transsexual and when they came out they simply got worse because it gave them an excuse to be worse. Abuse can take many different forms and it never comes out of the blue even though sometimes people claim it did. Like women who stay with abusive men, there were all kinds of red flags before the day he started hitting her. Those parents were always abusive even if the abuse was more subtle emotional type abuse, it was there.

it's scare mongering when there isn't research to support the claims.

For instance in the case of blood pressure the research doesn't show a significant increase in blood pressure. The largest study of its kind traced individuals with normal blood pressures starting hormone therapy and found an average increase of systolic blood pressure of 2.6 mmHg. Which isn't significant. That study also found that individuals with stage 2 hypertension, when blood pressure is at least 140/90, that after starting hormone therapy their blood pressure fell an average of 19%

Katherine Banks, Mabel Kyinn, et al Blood Pressure Effects of Gender-Affirming Hormone Therapy in Transgender and Gender-Diverse Adults Hypertension 2021

Studies on cancer showed that transsexual on hormone therapies have the same risk of cancer as the general population.

Christel J M de Blok et al. Cancer Risk in Transgender PeopleReview Endocrinol Metab 2019
Christel J M de Blok Breast cancer risk in transgender people receiving hormone treatment BMJ 2019

Of course there is research. Do you honestly think that a person can take a hormones foreign to the body for years with no risks to their health? Do you think surgery carries no risk?
HTR risks

• A blood clot in a deep vein (deep vein thrombosis) or in a lung (pulmonary embolism)
• High triglycerides, a type of fat (lipid) in your blood.
• Weight gain.
• Infertility.
• High potassium (hyperkalemia)
• High blood pressure (hypertension)
• Type 2 diabetes.
• Cardiovascular disease.

I quick google of the Mayo clinic will show anyone that.
Feminizing hormone therapy - Mayo Clinic

name me one medical treatment that is always 100% successful.

Now talk about why they said they were unhappy.

who says that no one looks?

No one is saying medical treatment is always 100% successful, but if therapy could help some to be happy in their own body why would that not be preferable to hormones and surgery?

No one looks at what?

Those people on that video had all the changes, they were not happy, they are not the only ones in that community to speak out against the rush and frankly the fad of changing genders that is now occurring. Changing your gender is not this blissful cure all that you would like to think it is.It has also become a trendy thing to do.

Blaire White is a trans female.

 

[rturner76]

Exept they are not what they are, if their mind is female effectively then no they aren't. Again what is with this denail of biology and how the mind works?

I think saying you are a man when you actually are a woman is denying biology. I don't think anybody has the full understanding of how the mind works.

 

[DamianWarS]

In some med schools the transgender ideology is taking over. Professors are being bullied into removing biological sex and pronouns from their classrooms when trying to teach medical students about the human body and treating illnesses. This is DANGEROUS. Men and Women are different biotically and suffer illness and disease differently because of this.

Professors are forced to apologize.

But as a dean of medicine states .

I don’t know the extent to which the stories you relate are now widespread in medical education, but to the extent that they are — and I hear some of this is popping up at my own institution — they are a serious departure from the expectation that medical education and practice should be based on science and be free from imposition of ideology and ideology-based intimidation.”

He added: “How male and female members of our species develop, how they differ genetically, anatomically, physiologically, and with respect to diseases and their treatment are foundational to clinical medicine and research. Efforts to erase or diminish these foundations should be unacceptable to responsible professional leaders.”

Trans activists are targeting physicians for differing with the trans ideology.

Trans activists have also targeted Ray Blanchard and Ken Zucker in Toronto, Michael Bailey at Northwestern, and Stephen Gliske at the University of Michigan for publishing findings they deemed transphobic. In a recent case, trans activists shut down research that was to be conducted by UCLA psychiatrist Jamie Feusner, who had hoped to explore the physiological underpinnings of gender dysphoria.

2019, the New England Journal of Medicine reported the case of a 32-year-old transgender man who went to an ER complaining of abdominal pain. While the patient disclosed he was transgender, his medical records did not. He was simply a man. The triage nurse determined that the patient, who was obese, was in pain because he’d stopped taking a medication meant to relieve hypertension. This was no emergency, she decided. She was wrong: The patient was, in fact, pregnant and in labor. By the time hospital staff realized that, it was too late. The baby was dead. And the patient, despite his own shock at being pregnant, was shattered.

Once again ideology is taking over science.

Med Schools Are Now Denying Biological Sex

we're heading into space where gender pronouns will become a thing of the past and medically speaking they will adopt their own language to determine biological sex. with the above case of the biological female identifying as a man medical professionals need to be trained to ask the right questions especially when transgendered is disclosed and documentation needs to support this as well. I really don't have a problem with gender-neutral pronouns and it's not an attack on anything, our language is just in transition. it's only third-person singular, everything else is already gender-neutral. English used to have THEE and THOU as the singular and YOU as the plural but it came to be too direct and aristocrats perfered more an indinifite pronouns which seems to have overlap with this modern day version of the pronoun conversation. thee/thou turns to you... he/she turns to they. We already use the pronoun "they" when the gender is unknown such as describing a position with an unclear gender. "The photographer [third person singular] wanted us to wear all black so they [third person plural pronoun] could contrast it with the background."

 

[muichimotsu]

Those parents didn't suddenly one day go from loving supportive parents to abusive beasts because their son put on a dress, they were abusive before their child came out as transsexual and when they came out they simply got worse because it gave them an excuse to be worse. Abuse can take many different forms and it never comes out of the blue even though sometimes people claim it did. Like women who stay with abusive men, there were all kinds of red flags before the day he started hitting her. Those parents were always abusive even if the abuse was more subtle emotional type abuse, it was there.

Then you can't act like this is claiming that they were abusive in a specific manner to a child being suspected of not conforming to gender roles, but that can be the case, even in an unknowing sense, like with many abusive things that parents can do

Of course there is research. Do you honestly think that a person can take a hormones foreign to the body for years with no risks to their health? Do you think surgery carries no risk?
HTR risks

• A blood clot in a deep vein (deep vein thrombosis) or in a lung (pulmonary embolism)
• High triglycerides, a type of fat (lipid) in your blood.
• Weight gain.
• Infertility.
• High potassium (hyperkalemia)
• High blood pressure (hypertension)
• Type 2 diabetes.
• Cardiovascular disease.

I quick google of the Mayo clinic will show anyone that.
Feminizing hormone therapy - Mayo Clinic

And no one is saying there aren't risks, you could die from a normal surgery from complications, that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, especially if it improves your quality of life.

No one is saying medical treatment is always 100% successful, but if therapy could help some to be happy in their own body why would that not be preferable to hormones and surgery?

It's not either/or, you can get therapy and sometimes that's sufficient, but it doesn't always work that way and you can have therapy ALONG with eventual surgery of some form or fashion, it varies by the individual, same way that there are levels of anxiety and depression that people struggle with. Some can move forward with therapy, some need medical assistance with psychiatric treatment, that's how medical science works in general, each patient is different and we shouldn't just try a one size fits all.

Those people on that video had all the changes, they were not happy, they are not the only ones in that community to speak out against the rush and frankly the fad of changing genders that is now occurring. Changing your gender is not this blissful cure all that you would like to think it is.It has also become a trendy thing to do.

Spoken from a position of privilege where you're already considered normal and thus you dismiss and diminish those who have struggles as just "wanting attention" or a "trend" rather than it becoming more acceptable to be open about these struggles and ask for help that isn't just going to gaslight and abuse those who aren't "normal"

 

[Pommer]

Those parents didn't suddenly one day go from loving supportive parents to abusive beasts because their son put on a dress, they were abusive before their child came out as transsexual and when they came out they simply got worse because it gave them an excuse to be worse.

The “putting on a dress” is acting-out in an emotional response to “abuse”?
Coming out as transsexual is the child being honest with themselves, they are the way that they are, and in coming to terms with themselves find that they “don’t feel like I’m a boy, maybe I’m not?”.
Most of us will never have to have that conservation with ourselves since our brains and our genitals “match” for us.

If a person feels that they have to assert their gender-identity (because it’s different than what it may appear), this courageous behavior needs to be celebrated for the soul-wrenching honesty it takes to have that conservation with themselves!

 

[loveofourlord]

Who cares about risks? Seriously? We are often talking about children here, children who don't even understand the risks.

If you are born a male and think you are a female or visa versa, yes its a delusion.
How can anyone think that is healthy. If people hate their body that much there is a reason for it, and those reasons are being overlooked and not even treated.
Did you even watch that video?
Those people all had hormones and surgery and they disagree with you.

No they are not overlooked, you just don't like the truths that are being discovered. It being a delusion assumes that it is NOT the case. That there isn't a disconnect phsycally between the brain and the body. Just repeatedly saying there is no such thing doesn't make it so.

 

[loveofourlord]

I think saying you are a man when you actually are a woman is denying biology. I don't think anybody has the full understanding of how the mind works.

No you again don't get it and are not listening. If the brain is functionally female due to hormonal problems then they are not denying biology YOU ARE. Or are you saying men are men because they have a penis and that is what determines how the brain should work and works, and not a million other things? If that's the case then why do men who were given a sex change at birth still find themselves attracted to woman and not men? If how your brain should work is determined by your sex organs or what you present then there shouldn't be a disconnect between the brain and other things. Again if you can have a disconnect between the sex organs your born with and your actual sex, why is gender suddenly impossible because it's the brain?

 

[coffee4u]

The “putting on a dress” is acting-out in an emotional response to “abuse”?
Coming out as transsexual is the child being honest with themselves, they are the way that they are, and in coming to terms with themselves find that they “don’t feel like I’m a boy, maybe I’m not?”.
Most of us will never have to have that conservation with ourselves since our brains and our genitals “match” for us.

If a person feels that they have to assert their gender-identity (because it’s different than what it may appear), this courageous behavior needs to be celebrated for the soul-wrenching honesty it takes to have that conservation with themselves!

Negative body image resulting from abuse is very common.
How Childhood Abuse Might Lead to Overeating
What form that takes varies. Some people overeat and put on a lot of weight to hide behind, some starve themselves and yet others try and change gender. If you are being sexually abused then hating the parts and wishing them gone would be quite a normal response. Changing who you are around an abuser is the common response because "if you were not 'stupid/male/female/skinny/insert adjective of choice' maybe the abuse would stop" is a normal response to abuse.

Children are not being 'honest'. An 8 year old being put on blockers does not understand the consequences. Normal children often wish to be the other gender, especially girls. At 8 I wished to be a boy, many girls did. It wasn't because we felt like the other gender either, it was to do with boys being seen as 'cool and brave and doing stuff that we couldn't'. Boy's didn't have to wear a dress and we did, no one told them to 'sit nicely'. Thankfully people back then had more common sense than a sheep. This type of thing was ignored, you grew up and were glad to be whatever you were. Those who continued in this were a very tiny minority. Now there are thousands of children being pushed towards it.
My son liked wearing a pink tutu at 5, so what? I didn't rush him off to a gender clinic I let him play.I didn't make a big deal of it because it wasn't a big deal. My daughter wears more black and grey than he does, she hopes to marry her boyfriend in a year or two. She is female, enjoys being female, she also like wearing combat boots and black. Other times she chooses a dress.
Heaven forbid a male be sensitive or enjoy 'female' pastimes or a woman be anything but dainty. No lets rush them off to a gender clinic.

“don’t feel like I’m a boy, maybe I’m not?”.
And maybe they are simply a gentle boy who has no male support so they gravitated towards the girls, or are an effeminate boy.
Or maybe they are a girl who is being abused who thinks if she wasn't a girl this would not be happening to her or maybe she just thinks being a boy would be much cooler since she just learned she will be get periods in a few years and hates the thought. Yeah sometimes it sucks to be a woman.
Maybe they will grow out of it if some adult didn't put them on blockers at 8 and chop their breasts off at 13.

Did you watch any of those videos by transgender people themselves?

 

[rturner76]

No you again don't get it and are not listening. If the brain is functionally female due to hormonal problems then they are not denying biology YOU ARE. Or are you saying men are men because they have a penis and that is what determines how the brain should work and works, and not a million other things? If that's the case then why do men who were given a sex change at birth still find themselves attracted to woman and not men? If how your brain should work is determined by your sex organs or what you present then there shouldn't be a disconnect between the brain and other things. Again if you can have a disconnect between the sex organs your born with and your actual sex, why is gender suddenly impossible because it's the brain?

So your body determines what sex you are but your brain determines what gender you are? I have a hard time separating sex from gender. To me, they are the same thing

 

[Nithavela]

(RT Documentary)

Watch out, here comes the russian propaganda meant to cause division in the western world.

 

[loveofourlord]

So your body determines what sex you are but your brain determines what gender you are? I have a hard time separating sex from gender. To me, they are the same thing

Well that's the problem, your brain isn't always the same as everyone else. Hormones play a huge part in how you developed, hormones at one part means you have a penis, hormones at a different part might mean you have more feminine brain. What were saying is there not delusional, because for them they are likely something like a female brain stuck in a man's body or vice versa. Were coming to understand how the body works and such and how much hormones and things play a part. There is some weird stuff out there like the 'woman' I've talked about here a few times, when they hit puberty they become men.

 

[Nithavela]

In the original post.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1811491
I can't read much of that, found it here:
Pregnant transgender man births stillborn baby, ER missed labor signs

Care adressing my post #69 ?

 

[coffee4u]

You mean the man who reported into the hospital as being pregnant, and who was scheduled for a pregnancy test?



Because that doesn't bear any resemblance to your post:

Depends what you read, I saw it said the nurse didn't know and this is why he wasn't treated as a woman would be. Which is why the baby died, due to not be treated for a pregnancy related complication swiftly.

 

[Nithavela]

Depends what you read, I saw it said the nurse didn't know and this is why he wasn't treated as a woman would be. Which is why the baby died, due to not be treated for a pregnancy related complication swiftly.

The nurse ordered a pregnancy test.

What nurse would order a pregnancy test for a man?

 

[Quartermaine]

Those parents didn't suddenly one day go from loving supportive parents to abusive beasts because their son put on a dress,

people can and do just that. Its an all to common theme in the lives of LGBT youths. Similar spikes in abuse are well known among homosexuals. Prior to about the ages of 12 to 14 homosexuals have histories of being victims of abuse that are no different from heterosexuals, its only after the onset of puberty that homosexual children start experiences increasing risk of all forms of abuse.

they were abusive before their child came out as transsexual

decades of research says you are wrong.

and when they came out they simply got worse because it gave them an excuse to be worse.

who got worse?

Abuse can take many different forms and it never comes out of the blue even though sometimes people claim it did. Like women who stay with abusive men, there were all kinds of red flags before the day he started hitting her. Those parents were always abusive even if the abuse was more subtle emotional type abuse, it was there.

decades of research say different

Of course there is research. Do you honestly think that a person can take a hormones foreign to the body for years with no risks to their health? Do you think surgery carries no risk?

you do know that men produce estrogen naturally and women produce testosterone naturally don't you?

• A blood clot in a deep vein (deep vein thrombosis) or in a lung (pulmonary embolism)
• High triglycerides, a type of fat (lipid) in your blood.
• High blood pressure (hypertension)

Only in individuals that who smoke and who have high BMI.
Milou Cecilia Madsen, Dennis van Dijk, Only in individuals who smoke AND who have a high BMI
Erythrocytosis in a Large Cohort of Trans Men Using Testosterone: A Long Term Follow up Study on Prevalence, Determinants, and the Effect of Years of Exposure Journal of the Endocrine Society, Volume 2021

Weight gain.

what doesn't cause wright gain?

• Infertility.

• its a potential long term effect but not in all cases

• 
  
• Type 2 diabetes.

• no studies on this have been done controlling for other risk factors

• Cardiovascular disease.

• See above

No one is saying medical treatment is always 100% successful,

you said it:
"Then that should have 100% success rate, but it doesn't. "

but if therapy could help some to be happy in their own body why would that not be preferable to hormones and surgery?

I hope yo are aware that sex change surgery requires many conditions to be met before such can even begin. That includes a minimum of two years of psychotherapy.

Those people on that video had all the changes, they were not happy, they are not the only ones in that community to speak out against the rush and frankly the fad of changing genders that is now occurring. Changing your gender is not this blissful cure all that you would like to think it is.It has also become a trendy thing to do.

Blaire White is a trans female.

rush and fad are concepts used as part of scaremongering.

 

[Quartermaine]

Negative body image resulting from abuse is very common.

True.

But there is no evidence of abuse leading to being transgendered

Children are not being 'honest'. An 8 year old being put on blockers does not understand the consequences.

AN honest person woudl acknowledge that if an 8 year old is on puberty blockers it is because of a condition called precocious puberty and this has nothing to do with being transgendered.

[

it was to do with boys being seen as 'cool and brave and doing stuff that we couldn't'. Boy's didn't have to wear a dress and we did, no one told them to 'sit nicely'. Thankfully people back then had more common sense than a sheep. This type of thing was ignored, you grew up and were glad to be whatever you were.

ignored or maybe parents just started smacking their kid around and the children were happy to start lying so mom and dad would stop hurting them.[/QUOTE]

 

[Strathos]

I'm not going to comment on the whole transgender issue, but I find it pretty ironic that many of the same people who are arguing that it's fascism/communism/what-have-you to merely suggest that everyone should get vaccinated are also arguing that the government should make it illegal to undergo a rather harmless surgery, even if you want to.

 

[rjs330]

we're heading into space where gender pronouns will become a thing of the past and medically speaking they will adopt their own language to determine biological sex. with the above case of the biological female identifying as a man medical professionals need to be trained to ask the right questions especially when transgendered is disclosed and documentation needs to support this as well. I really don't have a problem with gender-neutral pronouns and it's not an attack on anything, our language is just in transition. it's only third-person singular, everything else is already gender-neutral. English used to have THEE and THOU as the singular and YOU as the plural but it came to be too direct and aristocrats perfered more an indinifite pronouns which seems to have overlap with this modern day version of the pronoun conversation. thee/thou turns to you... he/she turns to they. We already use the pronoun "they" when the gender is unknown such as describing a position with an unclear gender. "The photographer [third person singular] wanted us to wear all black so they [third person plural pronoun] could contrast it with the background."

I certainly hope not cause it defys logic and science. It also isn't proper English. Thee and Thou was still reference to "you". They still used he, and she. Utilyzing they and them for he/she is illogical.

But a denial if reality is what we are being asked to do. And in the case of the OP it's also a denial of science.