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Meaning: "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church"

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by OrthodoxyUSA, Aug 3, 2017.

Is the meaning static as defined by those who wrote it or are we free to reinterpret it as we see f

  1. Static

    18 vote(s)
    72.0%
  2. Free to interpret

    7 vote(s)
    28.0%
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  1. DawnStar

    DawnStar Pragmatist

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    There is always room for one more on CF!

    Dogs are awesome!:oldthumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  2. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

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    true that :l I remember when there was a flood of Mary post for two days it happens, and nah tbh not into dogs.
     
  3. Thedictator

    Thedictator Retired Coach, Now Missionary to the World

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    If you are talking about Baptism, communion, prayer, song, fellowship, and worship. I do not call them sacraments but some do. They have their place and effects on the Christian and the Church as a whole. They are blessing from God.
     
  4. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    The OP said in another thread that he believes the Eastern Orthodox is The Church and anyone who is not part of it is a Christian but not part of the Church which is the body and bride of Christ (I cant remember if he used one or both terms).

    He has now done this post saying he believes in the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" which according to his previous posts he thinks is ONLY his church. And he said this is the Nicene creed and asks if it can be re-interpreted. Do your research as the original Nicene creed of 325 did not include a reference to the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church", this was added in the Nicence-Constantinopolitan Creed of 381.

    This is already a reinterpretation of the Nicene Creed so I fail to see how you can consider the nicene creed not open to interpretation but accept this reinterpretation added at a latter date.
     
  5. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Correct... Christian, but not in The Church. (One who professes belief in Jesus Christ and rejects the devil and his Angels is a Christian.)

    And yes it's the Nicence-Constantinopolitan Creed.

    Forgive me...
     
  6. DawnStar

    DawnStar Pragmatist

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    It does seem like certain topics come in spurts. :scratch: As far as dogs go Jason0047 was also kind enough to give me a final sentence for all of my posts from now on in his post complaining about the final sentence OrthodoxyUSA puts on all his posts.

    Dogs are awesome!:oldthumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  7. pshun2404

    pshun2404 Newbie

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    Most early members of our One (all those born from above...Romans 8:9) Holy (set apart by God for His purpose) Catholic (universal...we are not a culture) Apostolic (following the teachings of Christ through the Apostles) Church (Ekklesia or called out body) did not know how to read and they were far more serious followers of Jesus than most professing to be today....they had NO Bible...

    When Jesus said they word IS truth He was referring to the Tanakh (the Hebrew Scriptures and those teaching that He spoke (John 14:10)...the words of the Apostles and the understandings of those they themselves taught are also scripture but the Bible is not the linch-pin it is CHrist...HE is the way, He is the truth, and He is the life.
     
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  8. Jonathan Mathews

    Jonathan Mathews Well-Known Member

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    Anything authored by man can be altered by man. But anything authored by God CANNOT be altered by man. This sentence was authored by man, not by God.

    Let me be clear.... our belief in the Church means NOTHING. In fact, the Scriptures says "CURSED is the man who puts his trust in men". We do not have Faith in the Body of Christ. We have faith in Christ Jesus Himself, who is the HEAD of the Body, just as Jesus Christ trusted His Head, our Father God in Heaven. Any Body that believes/trusts/has faith in itself is cursed to do the will/desires of itself, the Body. But any Body that trusts in and follows the HEAD of the Body is saved by obedience to that Body's HEAD, yet only if that HEAD is HEALTHY. Now if Christ Jesus is our Head, the HEAD is healthy and so is the whole Body. But if the Head of the Body is NOT Christ Jesus, but some other man, the WHOLE HEAD is SICK and the Body is SICK also!!

    Therefore, I say again, put NO FAITH in the Body of Christ, whether a pastor, pope, priest, prophet, or Apostle. PUT YOUR FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, who is our HEAD, as we He also put His trust in God.

    As Jesus says "You believe in God... believe also in Me".
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
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  9. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And here you trust the scriptures that were picked out by these men as led by The Holy Spirit but you want nothing to do with anything else they said.

    They were in The Church. If we cant use the creed and mean it in the same way, then we are most definitely not in The Church. That was their mark and that was it's purpose.

    Forgive me...
     
  10. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

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    Did they write the scriptures though?
     
  11. anna ~ grace

    anna ~ grace Newbie Supporter

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    I see what you are saying. And get that Catholicism and Orthodoxy are really the only contemporary Churches able to describe themselves this way.

    There is also an extent to which part of me simply doesn't care as much as I used to. Theology and history matter, but it's growing darker and darker for conservative Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants alike. If you support Scriptural gender roles, Biblical marriage, and reject the notion that all roads lead to God, the number of folks out there likely to agree with you is shrinking.

    It's getting dark. Pretty soon, all we'll have are candles.
     
  12. anna ~ grace

    anna ~ grace Newbie Supporter

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    I want to be ready to descend into that darkness.
     
  13. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Here I am, lighting fires.

    I don't care to be agreed with, besides, these are not my thoughts. I am reflecting on a sermon by St. John Chrysostom, but he's not allowed here.

    Forgive me..
     
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  14. DawnStar

    DawnStar Pragmatist

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    I think the main question would be is the creed equivalent to scripture?

    Dogs are awesome!:oldthumbsup:
     
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  15. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They are on the same footing. They are both "Traditioned" from The Church.

    Forgive me...
     
  16. Jonathan Mathews

    Jonathan Mathews Well-Known Member

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    No, even those men did not say their Creed was the Word of God, NOR did they tell us to put our Faith in their CREED! Their faith was in Jesus Christ, not their own Creeds. And likewise, MY Faith is in Christ Jesus, not in the Creeds of His servants.

    You we KNOW that their Creed is NOT the Word of God because it says "I BELIEVE in the [Church]". God puts NO CONFIDENCE in men, and Jesus Christ put none of His trust in His Church. He entrusted Himself to God alone.

    Psalm 118:8
    Isaiah 2:22
    Psalm 146:3
    Jeremiah 17:5

    If those men can make Creeds, so can I! Am I any less a Christian then they???

    So here is MY Creed... "LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR!!!"
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
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  17. DawnStar

    DawnStar Pragmatist

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    I disagree with that premise but then again according to the way you believe I am apparently not in "The Church".

    Dogs are awesome!:oldthumbsup:
     
  18. Friend-of-Jesus

    Friend-of-Jesus Well-Known Member

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    The only Church is invisible global church of all true born-again believers in Jesus
     
  19. anna ~ grace

    anna ~ grace Newbie Supporter

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    I hear you, and I agree. I guess my heart is more Catholic than anything, but it is thanks to Orthodoxy that I can now venerate and petition Mary, and the Saints. The Catholic Church may soon split, but if She does, many will go underground. God bless you, and thank you for lighting fires.
     
  20. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    I'm curious to hear your view of your OP inquiry. Why? Because from reading posts here and other sites I am told the Orthodox are the One True Church (OTC); Yet hear the Roman Catholics claim the same.

    Which church then is the OTC?
     
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