Meaning: "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church"

[DawnStar]

You would not take communion if it were offered to you then?

Forgive me...

If I just happened to be there when communion was offered yes I would but I do not attend a service just for the purpose of taking communion. I have seen people who attend services only when communion is given. I have attended churches where communion is given monthly and have attended churches where communion is given twice a year or yearly. Some did it weekly. Seems kind of inconsistent if it is something that is so important which is one reason I do believe it is.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

If I just happened to be there when communion was offered yes I would but I do not attend a service just for the purpose of taking communion. I have seen people who attend services only when communion is given. I have attended churches where communion is given monthly and have attended churches where communion is given twice a year or yearly. Some did it weekly. Seems kind of inconsistent if it is something that is so important which is one reason I do believe it is.

My next question would by why? Why would you take part in something you're only pretending to believe? Just for looks?

Forgive me...

 

[rockytopva]

You want a big list? or just historical ones, living ones?

How about Zacchaeus.... the wee little man. He was bishop. Oh wait, that's not biblical we can't talk about that here.



Lol!

Forgive me....

Do the Orthodox allow their bishops to marry?

 

[Halbhh]

Doesn't "catholic" mean universal, and thus that all believers are owned by the Church, in the Church, and therefore no one group can claim a monopoly on Christianity and exclude other groups.

Instead of a monopoly by one group, we believe --

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

That is, His Church has us, instead of us having it. He is the head, and we are in His Church.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Do the Orthodox allow their bishops to marry?

I know a Bishop that is a widower. Most Bishops come from the monastic orders, so they weren't married to start with.

Forgive me...

 

[DamianWarS]

"I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church"

It's a statement from the Nicene creed.

Is the meaning static as defined by those who wrote it or are we free to reinterpret it as we see fit?

The first ecumenical council, 4 July 325 in Nicea was called for the express purpose of defining what Christians had always believed from the beginning, away from the false teaching of Arius and others. The creed was the method used to express their common faith.

the Nicene creed of 325 doesn't say this

 

[rockytopva]

I know a Bishop that is a widower. Most Bishops come from the monastic orders, so they weren't married to start with.

Forgive me...

My understanding of the seven churches...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

It appears to me that originally the qualification of a bishop was that he had to be a married man...

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; - 1 Timothy 3:2

So... It appears that the qualifications of bishop changed within what I would call the Pergameon church age and adopted in Catholic churches as well. Therefore, I do not believe that such traditions were handed down by the apostles, but by the Orthodox and Catholic churches. In which, I wonder, if other traditions were handed down as well.

I believe that the Catholic and Orthodox churches tinkered with Christianity, especially within what I would call the Pergameon church age. There are those of us within the Christian church who do not go along with some of the tinkered changes.

But... I believe the Catholic and Orthodox churches will make up the vast majority of the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" in that last day. There are, simply put though, other Christian congregations outside their fold.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

My understanding of the seven churches...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

It appears to me that originally the qualification of a bishop was that he had to be a married man...

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; - 1 Timothy 3:2

So... It appears that the qualifications of bishop changed within what I would call the Pergameon church age and adopted in Catholic churches as well. Therefore, I do not believe that such traditions were handed down by the apostles, but by the Orthodox and Catholic churches. In which, I wonder, if other traditions were handed down as well.

I believe that the Catholic and Orthodox churches tinkered with Christianity, especially within what I would call the Pergameon church age. There are those of us within the Christian church who do not go along with some of the tinkered changes.

But... I believe the Catholic and Orthodox churches will make up the vast majority of the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" in that last day. There are, simply put though, other Christian congregations outside their fold.

Paul was stating that the Bishop could not be a polygamist. Which was a very strong custom among gentiles.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Doesn't "catholic" mean universal, and thus that all believers are owned by the Church, in the Church, and therefore no one group can claim a monopoly on Christianity and exclude other groups.

Instead of a monopoly by one group, we believe --

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

That is, His Church has us, instead of us having it. He is the head, and we are in His Church.

That is a widely held opinion. It's a made up definition for greek words that had no direct meaning in latin.

Forgive me...

 

[Halbhh]

That is a widely held opinion. It's a made up definition.

Forgive me...

In order for there to be 'Catholic', what was the word originating in relation to then? It would make sense as saying as in 44 -- we are all one under Him -- which even if not the meaning you have in mind is still true of course. But what meaning do you have, and what was it in relation to?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

In order for there to be 'Catholic', what was the word originating in relation to then? It would make sense as saying as in 44 -- we are all one under Him -- which even if not the meaning you have in mind is still true of course. But what meaning do you have, and what was it in relation to?

Kata holos.... "Concerned with the whole".

They used it exclusively to show what was in and what was out.

It had nothing to do with the modern ecumenical movement of "everything goes, all are included".

In fact just the opposite. It showed who was not included. Namely Arius and others rightly labeled heretics.

Forgive me...

 

[Halbhh]

Kata holos.... "Concerned with the whole".

They used it exclusively to show what was in and what was out.

It had nothing to do with the modern ecumenical movement of "everything goes, all are included".

In fact just the opposite. It showed who was not included. Namely Arius and others rightly labeled heretics.

Forgive me...

I think we agree fully that it could never be that "everything goes". Even if we might have a few differences in our lack of full understanding. In the end, we all depend on Him, really, and this is the only thing that saves us.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I think we agree fully that it could never be that "everything goes". Even if we might have a few differences in our lack of full understanding. In the end, we all depend on Him, really, and this is the only thing that saves us.

By the grace of God.

We all agree there is a line.

The line was drawn by the same men who were led by The Holy Spirit to choose what books were to be included in what ultimately becomes our bible.

Forgive me...

 

[Apex]

"I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church"

It's a statement from the Nicene creed.

Is the meaning static as defined by those who wrote it or are we free to reinterpret it as we see fit?

Forgive me...

The creed was originally written in Greek. Do we know if the words "one holy catholic and apostolic church" were capitalized in this first text?

 

[Goatee]

I say! If the bishops are not married then the worship service given by the apostles was not preserved!

Does not say that a Bishop 'has' to be married. Only that if he is married it should only be to one wife!

 

[rockytopva]

By the grace of God.

We all agree there is a line.

The line was drawn by the same men who were led by The Holy Spirit to choose what books were to be included in what ultimately becomes our bible.

Forgive me...

"Man's extremity is God's opportunity." - Saint Augustine

But... As far as I am concerned man's extremity is God's big headache. It would be nice if the Holy Spirit would have guided us in our doctrine as well as what went in the bible. I can't accuse the Orthodox and Catholic alone of tinkering with the Christianity. Martin Luther and John Calvin both had harsh and evil things to say about people. We also had those in Pentecostal circles who would say you were not saved if you did not speak in tongues. And then those who went overboard in this ages materialistic teachings.

Tinkering with the Christianity has been something that occurred very early on in Christianity. The Apostle Paul had his hands full with this his entire ministry, and it even drew comments from the Apostle Peter...

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. - 2 Peter 3

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The creed was originally written in Greek. Do we know if the words "one holy catholic and apostolic church" were capitalized in this first text?

Greek letter had only one form. No caps.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

"Man's extremity is God's opportunity." - Saint Augustine

But... As far as I am concerned man's extremity is God's big headache. It would be nice if the Holy Spirit would have guided us in our doctrine as well as what went in the bible. I can't accuse the Orthodox and Catholic alone of tinkering with the Christianity. Martin Luther and John Calvin both had harsh and evil things to say about people. We also had those in Pentecostal circles who would say you were not saved if you did not speak in tongues. And then those who went overboard in this ages materialistic teachings.

Tinkering with the Christianity has been something that occurred very early on in Christianity. The Apostle Paul had his hands full with this his entire ministry, and it even drew comments from the Apostle Peter...

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. - 2 Peter 3

I would add to that:

Col 2:8

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

2Th 3:6

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Forgive me...

 

[rockytopva]

Does not say that a Bishop 'has' to be married. Only that if he is married it should only be to one wife!

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; - 1 Timothy 3:2

I really do believe that it would bode well for the Catholic church if they would allow these qualifications for their bishops and leaders.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; - 1 Timothy 3:2

I really do believe that it would bode well for the Catholic church if they would allow these qualifications for their bishops and leaders.

Orthodox clergy have to decide if they are going to marry before they become Deacons.

Forgive me...