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Meaning: "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church"

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by OrthodoxyUSA, Aug 3, 2017.

Is the meaning static as defined by those who wrote it or are we free to reinterpret it as we see f

  1. Static

    18 vote(s)
    72.0%
  2. Free to interpret

    7 vote(s)
    28.0%
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  1. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    So then (and assuming that you would subscribe to any manmade Creeds as the OP presumes) you would deny that you disagree with the Nicene Creed as concerns its use of that word. :)
     
  2. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Would that be true for all Christians? Even the ones who came 20 centuries before us? Or how about 19 centuries? 18?

    At what point did Christianity become dependent on the bible instead of prayer and grace dispensed through the sacraments?

    Modern Christians are now worshiping their bible in lieu of attending services.

    Forgive me...
     
  3. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Handed down via the Holy Spirit though. That's the important bit!
     
  4. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Exactly. The creed is not about the 'Roman' church.
     
  5. Thedictator

    Thedictator Retired Coach, Now Missionary to the World

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    Yes, the Jews and the Pharisees believed in genealogies also, Jesus Christ does not care about the made up genealogy of some religion. The only religion Christ cares about is the one based on truth of the Word of God and practice by it. James 1:26-27.
     
  6. Thedictator

    Thedictator Retired Coach, Now Missionary to the World

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    Grace is dispensed by God not a sacrament, and as to church attendance Catholics and Orthodox are just a bad as any one else. I know one person who is Orthodox and only goes to church about three times a year.
     
  7. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's Protestantism all right.

    Since they don't have the sacraments they are forced to deny their effect.

    Meanwhile the baby got thrown out with the bathwater while trying to shed the Roman Catholic shell. This resulted in spiritual blindness and paralysis.

    Forgive me...
     
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  8. Thedictator

    Thedictator Retired Coach, Now Missionary to the World

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    I have no real problem with the Nicene Creed as a statement of faith ( that of it's original purpose ) but I do have a real problem with it being equated with scripture.
     
  9. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. - Daniel 12:12-3

    There was one Jacob (Israel)
    There were 12 sons
    There were many generations

    And if you read the Old Testament there were many hits and misses along the way, with many generations regressing into total wickedness. They will all stand in their lot in that last day

    The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. - Revelation 1:20

    One Christ - Head of the church
    Seven Congregations - Seven unique churches
    Seven Angels - We are all angels in one of the congregation, held in the right hand of Christ Jesus.
    Seven Seals - All the names of the angels of the congregations will have their names sealed in the book of life.

    And if you read history there were many hits and misses along the way, with many congregations regressing into total wickedness, forcing the church to develop new congregations, but within the body of Christ. We will all stand in our lot (congregation) in that last day.

    And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? - Revelation 5:2


    [​IMG]

    And the seven congregations making up the whole church in Christ...

    Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
    Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
    Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
    Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
    Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
    Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
    Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

    Those within these congregations make up the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church"
     
  10. seeking.IAM

    seeking.IAM Episcopalian Supporter

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    You have started a thought-provoking thread. I believe the term is defined by those who wrote it, not individual interpretation. Considering this phrase of our creed, it gives me pause to consider who does really believe and practice it when this group excommunicates that group or when one group of Christians denies another group of Christians participation in the Eucharist? Or when there is a Christianforums thread that bashes other Christians or suggests one kind of Christian is not Christian-enough.

    One of the reasons I'm Anglican is because all baptized Christians are welcome to participate in the Eucharist. For me, it is around the common cup where his Church becomes One, not by being under a single ecclesiastical authority.
     
  11. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Let me follow this through... you trust the scriptures that these people picked out to be the canon. But you don't trust what they said about their beliefs.

    So the Holy Spirit led them to somethings, just not everything.

    Forgive me...
     
  12. DawnStar

    DawnStar Pragmatist

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    I do not know about other protestants but I was not forced to deny anything. They have no affect on me because I do not believe in the sanctity of forms of worship invented by humans.
     
  13. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That human was Christ. And he gave that worship service to the Apostles to be preserved and handed down to you.

    Throw it away at your own expense.

    Forgive me..
     
  14. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    Paul's qualification of a Bishop...

    A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; - 1 Timothy 3:2

    Please provide me some names of Bishops who have these qualifications.
     
  15. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    I say! If the bishops are not married then the worship service given by the apostles was not preserved!
     
  16. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Since almost all Protestant churches DO have sacraments, they are obviously not "forced to deny their effect."
     
  17. DawnStar

    DawnStar Pragmatist

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    "Holy" threats from humans do not affect me either.
     
  18. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You want a big list? or just historical ones, living ones?

    How about Zacchaeus.... the wee little man. He was bishop. Oh wait, that's not biblical we can't talk about that here.

    Lol!

    Forgive me....
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  19. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You would not take communion if it were offered to you then?

    Forgive me...
     
  20. Daniel9v9

    Daniel9v9

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    I think the ecumenical creeds are good, for they guard against a myriad of heresies. This sentence of "And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church" specifically though, is viewed somewhat differently between Lutherans and particularly our Roman Catholic friends.

    However, it's not really open for interpretations to Lutherans. It's defined as:

    "Also they (Lutherans) teach that one holy Church is to continue forever. The Church is the congregation of saints, in which the Gospel is rightly taught and the Sacraments are rightly administered. And to the true unity of the Church it is enough to agree concerning the doctrine of the Gospel and the administration of the Sacraments. Nor is it necessary that human traditions, that is, rites or ceremonies, instituted by men, should be everywhere alike. As Paul says: One faith, one Baptism, one God and Father of all, etc. Eph. 4:5-6."
     
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