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Meaning: "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church"

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by OrthodoxyUSA, Aug 3, 2017.

Is the meaning static as defined by those who wrote it or are we free to reinterpret it as we see f

  1. Static

    18 vote(s)
    72.0%
  2. Free to interpret

    7 vote(s)
    28.0%
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  1. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church"

    It's a statement from the Nicene creed.

    Is the meaning static as defined by those who wrote it or are we free to reinterpret it as we see fit?

    Forgive me...
     
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  2. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The first ecumenical council, 4 July 325 in Nicea was called for the express purpose of defining what Christians had always believed from the beginning, away from the false teaching of Arius and others. The
    creed was the method used to express their common faith.

    Forgive me...
     
  3. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You can define it anyway you want, just don't accept Catholics to accept nor appreciate any change you make. :)

    At this point in my walk I have determined to stay clear of decrees that we have been born into and have, subconsciously, shaped our paradigm. Instead, I have spent the last 15 years studying the context behind the NT (no, not the verse before and after, but rather anything that has any influence on what is written in the NT.... Hebrew idioms or rules of exegesis, ancient near east culture, the languages in use, etc.).
     
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  4. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's one opinion. It's wrong on several levels.

    Forgive me...
     
  5. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Really? Just accepting what has been handed down, blindly... what we have been born into... is wrong on several fronts? Or you changing the Catholics definition of a word or phrase and me saying they won't accept it is wrong on several fronts?
     
  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    If you're going to invite a discussion but then dismiss out of hand any opinion that you don't want to hear, you might as well just state your belief at the onset, caling all others wrong, and be done with it.
    :sigh:
     
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  7. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You think it belongs to the Roman Church? Is that correct? It does not. In fact they added to it, changing the shape of Christian Theology.

    I'm not asking you to accept anything blindly, but it's rude beyond measure to use the words of others and redefine them to mean something else.

    We would find the rules here on the forum to be no different. We cant misquote or mischaracterize the statements of others... yet when speaking with the language of the Orthodox Churches we take it lightly and change the meaning and not feel bad about it.

    If we don't believe in "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church". Why say that we do?
    It's a lie. Nothing short of it.

    Forgive me...
     
  8. Korean-American Christian

    Korean-American Christian raised Presbyterian. member of the Nazarene Church

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    The definition of catholic is "universal."

    The meaning is static as defined by those who wrote the Nicene Creed in AD 325.

    The Nicene Creed was written in AD 325. The title Pontifex Maximus - "supreme priest" - was given to the bishop of Rome in AD 330, after the Council of Nicaea

    from Roman Catholicism | History, Definition, & Facts
    Curiously, after the newly converted emperor Constantine (died 337) transferred the capital of the Roman Empire from Rome to Constantinople in 330, Rome’s civil authority was weakened, but its spiritual authority was strengthened: the title “supreme priest” (pontifex maximus), which had been the prerogative of the emperor, now devolved upon the pope. The transfer of the capital also occasioned a dispute between Rome (“Old Rome”) and Constantinople (“New Rome”) over whether the new capital should be entitled to a commensurate ecclesiastical preeminence alongside the see (seat of a bishop’s office) of Peter. The second and fourth ecumenical councils of the church (at Constantinople in 381 and at Chalcedon in 451) both legislated such a position for the see of Constantinople, but Rome refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of that prerogative.

    It was also at the Council of Chalcedon—which was convoked to resolve the doctrinal controversy between Antioch and Alexandria over the person of Jesus Christ—that the council fathers accepted the formula proposed by Pope Leo I (reigned 440–461), which offered the orthodox teaching of Christ’s Incarnation and of the union of both his natures. Recognizing the authority with which Leo spoke, the council fathers declared, “Peter has spoken through the mouth of Leo!”

    0 homeless pray for the homeless.jpg
     
  9. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't care if the Jehovah's Witnesses came up with the line... it is a statement of belief of MAN and the phrase is not found in Scripture. That alone does not make it wrong and maybe they did steal the phrase.... but that would still be from 1700 years ago and at this point... while I voted that you have the right to change it... the religious world will see it as static, because that is the mindset we are born into. That is why I added my approach... to cutting through the decrees and traditions and trying to find what our very Jewish messiah would have thought or done.
     
  10. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And that is a problem. It's being used by people who don't care. Just say you do, get on here and argue your point.

    Who is the father of lies?

    Forgive me...
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  11. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Actually the word Catholic comes from two word... Kata holos, meaning "concerned for the whole".

    A whole bunch of Roman rhetoric in that definition. They were only one Church of five you know.

    Forgive me...
     
  12. Thedictator

    Thedictator Retired Coach, Now Missionary to the World

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    There is only one Church that Jesus Christ founded and it is not Apostolic. Jesus Christ is the only Head of the true Church. Romans 16:16, The true Church is based on faith not a line of concession.
    The Bible ( the Word of God )reveals the truth, not the man made creeds, traditions, and catechisms of false religion.
     
  13. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Then why say you believe it?

    The very first Christian creed was given by St. Peter and was used as the baptismal creed. That's biblical.

    Forgive me...
     
  14. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    The term, as it appears there, does not refer to 'Apostolic Succession,' but to Apostolic origins.
     
  15. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Dude... I am not Catholic or Orthodox.... I am a follower of Messiah Yeshua and my aim is simply to return to the core message that existed in the first century. I have spent years studying decrees and learned how both good and bad traditions are created and in the end... I don't care. Why? What do I mean? Simply that we need to look outside the lens we were born into... we need to peer beyond our own bias at the message as it was given when Messiah was here. A return to the roots of the faith rather that quibbling over decrees made by man hundreds of years after.
     
  16. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "This sending was first effected with the apostles, thus apostolicity is not only the divine mission; it is also unity of the Church with the apostles who were sent out by Jesus Christ. Thus, there is an apostolic succession by which the pastors of the Church are able to trace their orders back to the infant Church founded by Jesus Christ in the first century."

    One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church - OrthodoxWiki

    Forgive me...
     
  17. DawnStar

    DawnStar Pragmatist

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    Looks to me like you started this thread just looking for an argument. But I guess you feel that is OK since you say forgive me at the end of every post right?
     
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  18. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What's wrong with argument? You're in the Theology section.

    Forgive me...
     
  19. Thedictator

    Thedictator Retired Coach, Now Missionary to the World

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    Well then, if a group of people or church believe in the Bible and practice it, they are part of the one true Church with Apostolic origins. The Bible is our true Apostolic origins.
     
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  20. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Did Christ leave you a Church or a book?

    Forgive me...
     
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