I would also add to this point, that when discussing the issue of faith, we need to understand how the word "faith" is used in the Gospels. And this isn't just a Catholic-Protestant disagreement. One thing I have noticed on this forum is that although all Protestants believe in Justification by Faith Alone, there doesn't seem to be a consensus as to what faith is. For Catholics, the word faith encompasses many things. On the other hand, I have noticed that to many Protestants on this forum, faith means only one thing, and that is strictly belief. Other Protestants, other Protestants fall somewhere in between.
Understanding any word as God uses it is vital.
I've gotten completely away from using the "Faith Alone" phrase. Even within Protestantism there is the retort, "Faith is Never Alone". So, it's a debate about the meaning of Faith, which makes your point.
Faith encompassing many things is a view held by Catholics (taking your word for it), many Protestants (Faith is Never Alone) and me from doing focused studies of the word in the Word. The simple concept of some stand-alone belief, let alone a one-time undefined belief, is simply unbiblical.
This difference in what a Catholic means by faith is probably the main reason that Protestants get infuriated when Catholics say, "Faith without works is dead." The typical Protestant will always say, "A-ha! You believe in faith plus works salvation." The problem is that most Protestants are not aware of Catholics mean by the word "Faith." Many Protestants, define the word faith as simply belief. While Catholics believe the word Faith encompasses so much more. That is why when a Catholic says, "Faith without works is dead," we are not saying good works are necessary in addition to faith, we are saying that good works are part of faith itself, just like belief is a part of faith. You may also hear Catholics sometimes say that is not enough to believe in Jesus as our savior, we must also believe what Jesus said. So, for us Catholics, faith has many aspects to it, while to a typical Protestant they see faith as only having one aspect, belief.
I came to see James' Faith + Works as foundational and agree with you that what I'll call "Biblical Faith" (1 Peter 1:7 talks about testing for the "genuineness" (close enough translation for now) of faith) can only have [good] works. I think many misunderstand Paul, which is why I posted the John 6 & Ephesians 2 information. I think I've seen in Paul where he may have been specifically addressing James' Faith + Works and qualifying it with his works of law under law discussions. IOW Paul agrees with James but determined it necessary to clear up the initial justification/acquittal matter.
I also think it's important to view whose work is being highlighted in context. God has the perfect right to be talking about all of His work and saying something like, "even if I have you doing something in response, it doesn't mean I ascribe any merit to you." It's kind of like when He began cross-examining Job with, "where were you when I created..."? Ephesians 2 to me is, Where were you when I created My Salvation Plan, sent My Son, determined to join you to Him in resurrected life, ascension, and seating in authority!? Did you make yourself alive from the dead!? What makes you think you did anything deserving of merit!? Were you even able to believe apart from my giving you what's necessary to believe? The works-salvation arguments around Ephesians 2 just seem so unnecessary to me now.
The works-salvation issue has been blown way out of proportion. Few like what I ask when I point out Jesus' command to unbelievers to work to receive the gift He gives that remains for eternal life. Many won't even discuss it.
I don't think belief and faith in the Text are any different. They both translate the same Greek word. It's just a matter of understanding all that God attaches to the concept of Faith/Belief, so we understand what He means when He says something about it. I'm comfortable saying Faith/Belief in God must include Obedience to God, because I can show this in Scripture - how the 2 words are even used interchangeably. In doing so, I get charged with works-salvation.
Therefore, Protestants and Catholics argue over Justification by Faith Alone, they usually talk past each other. It's like one person entering into a contract with another person in the regards to the purchase of several widgets. If the two parties have a different definition of what a widget is, then the contract is pointless. In fact, that's why many contracts include a definitions section to avoid such problems.
I guess what I am saying is that prior to engaging in debates over Justification by Faith Alone, maybe we should engage in a debate over the biblical definition of the word "Faith."
Agree. But the debates will be just as severe. Some are so deeply invested in these positions in both time & reputation that to be reversed would be beyond difficult. I watched as some wrote scholarly articles to say faith is absolutely passive, and others say things like, "if you add anything to faith, then you're not saved." IMO this is just a pendulum swing to counter another pendulum swing. I once asked someone deeply in such Faith Alone mentality:
- Q: Are there any commandments in the NC to believe that Jesus is the Christ?
- A: I received the correct answer, Yes.
- Q: Then, when we believe that Jesus is the Christ, have we not also obeyed God's command to believe?
- A: The answer was deer in the headlights and no answer.
I'm OK to discuss and debate such things. But it's unreasonable to just ignore them and go straight to allegations of works-salvation. All these things must be simply a matter of "rightly dividing" 2 Timothy 2:15.