Matthew 7:23 Discussion

[Supplanter]

Originally Posted by Supplanter

For even if you have seen all these things and done all these things, if you do not have love (because God is love), then you really have accomplished nothing. So many will stand before God on the day of Judgment who have worked miracles in His name and yet when they cry "Lord, Lord," He will say that He does not know them. I don't want to say that this will be the case with you, but there are some red flags that go up in your posts that seem to warrant someone needing to say something to you in order that you might seriously do some introspective questioning with Jesus and ask Him to reveal the nature of your own heart in some of these beliefs that you hold and things that you profess.

Supplanter I have a question concerning the Lord, Lord statment?
you are quoting from Matthew 7:23
we know that that is a favorite scripture of self proclaimed hersey hunters, and it is probably used against us more than against any other denomination.
Seriously I do not believe that those people that say they did those things actually did do those things. I believe that the only reason they said they did those things too, was because they saw that those who were with Jesus actually did do those things, (cast out devils, etc).
Some of the reasons I believe as I do.
look at verse 21, we know that it is the will of God to do those things.
verse 18 Jesus said a good tree can not bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

now in the context of Matthew 7 casting out devils is good fruit, because it is the will of God that this be done. and Jesus said a corrupt tree can not do this. and those that worked iniquity were no doubt corrupt.
and we know that in order to do these things the Holy Spirit would be in us, we would also have to know the authority that Jesus has delegated to us, and we would also have to know that Jesus has all authority.

so if there are any other wof people, I would appreciate your input. but please carefully read the scriptures first. thank you

 

[Supplanter]

So, I want to answer this thoughtfully, so I actually need to look up some scriptures. I see your point, though. However, what initially comes to mind is that they were perhaps, performing false miracles, which there are Biblical accounts of in the last days, because in context we are immediately before discussing false prophets in this passage. Anyway, let me do some more study on it, and I will be getting back to you.

 

[gennaoanothen]

thank you.
study is fine as it should also be in harmony with other scriptures.
and it would be good to get others input as well.
as this should forever silence those that try to come against wof with that scripture verse. because it is in the Name of Jesus that we cast out demons and lay hands on the sick.

 

[Jayangel81]

I heard a sermon about these verses because they really gave me trouble and the enemy has twisted them around on me to doubt my salvation.

I believe that the people that Jesus was speaking about was self decieved.

They thought they were Christians, but they were never born again, the scripture says that they were practicing sin.

just like the teaching before this, it was about deception in false prophets.

Of coarse I am not providing any scriptures so this is just what "I" believe.

I am interested in what you have to say about these after your study.

Praying that the Lord reveals to you the truth about this

 

[Supplanter]

I haven't forgotten you genn, just been busy lately. But I've been thinking and praying about this.

 

[Elimelech]

Matt. 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matt. 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jesus never said they did any miracles just that THEY said they did... and he said I never knew you...

 

[gennaoanothen]

I haven't forgotten you genn, just been busy lately. But I've been thinking and praying about this.

I understand busy

 

[gennaoanothen]

at the flea market, I picked up the kjv Nt on cds.
so now I can listen to the Word as I work.
here is scripture that would go along with what I have said, as we are looking for scripture to support scripture on this topic.
Mark 9:36 he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them, 37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me. 38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

 

[gennaoanothen]

the above scripture totaly disproves the self proclaimed hersey hunters theology, besides I don't know of any hersey hunter that cast out demons. they just sell books for profit. and cause division in the body of Christ.

also if a non Christian would attempt to cast out a demon, they would be attacked by that demon, and overpowered. atleast from what I understand in scripture.

 

[The Thumb]

I believe the phrase of importance is "in Your Name" we did thus and so. Do you recall the seven sons of Scheva,? they were apparently casting out devils on their own and got torn up. But there were those of whom the Disciples complained to Jesus that "they are preaching in Your name and they do not follow us." Jesus said," Leave them alone, if they are not against us they are for us." There is yet the group that presents themselves as the REAL thing, and they are calling the Name of Jesus but they are phoney. They should know it too, if they read and believed the Bible.

In regards to the Matthew 7;23 text, I believe the message is deeper, and is intended to be understood as such. My great concern for the Church today is that there is only goodie, goodie, all upbeat, jus' luv, nothin' but LUV. There is no teaching or peaching, overall, about sin and how God deals with sin. We want to make te Gospel of Jesus inclusive to everyones desires and opinions. It's like, our opinion matters, 'we voted you in, we can vote you out, so you'd better please us.' Don't get me wrong, I like this idea IN POLITICS, but it is not the way we dare to feel about God and what He thinks. We are aware that according to George Barna, 71% of American adults have formulated their own style of religion. Mostly all inside the arena called "Christian." Statistics tell us that, at the least, 40% of preachers in the pulpit are addicted to inappropriate contentography. "Well", they say they have a Scripture to support thir case, "God remembers that we are dust." Yeh? that is not what the Word says and particularly to the teachers and preachers. The Word says, "You be holy, because I am Holy." I believe the Matthew 7:23 text is a futuristic picture of what the 'loose livers' who call themselves Christian and yet live a life of the deeds of the flesh, which can be found in Galatians chapter 5. I believe this text to be a serious warning.

Blessings on all
who study the Book
and to other authorities
does not look!

 

[Jayangel81]

also if a non Christian would attempt to cast out a demon, they would be attacked by that demon, and overpowered. atleast from what I understand in scripture.

Hmm thats true. That pharasee really got womped on

 

[Supplanter]

the above scripture totaly disproves the self proclaimed hersey hunters theology, besides I don't know of any hersey hunter that cast out demons. they just sell books for profit. and cause division in the body of Christ.

also if a non Christian would attempt to cast out a demon, they would be attacked by that demon, and overpowered. at least from what I understand in scripture.

Yeah, that was the first thing I looked up. The Seven Sons of Sceva in Acts 19, and it supports the idea that they could not cast out the demons, because they did not belong to Christ.

I would say that most likely, these men really believed that they had done these things . . .though we know they could not have, they deluded themselves into believing that they were working signs and wonders (in whatever capacity). Either way the issue is that they failed to do the will of the Father and instead, probably tried to exploit His power for their own gain . . .but I'd like to offer a more solid argument as I continue to think about this. . .to determine whether or not we can really resume that there was no manifestation of said signs and wonders. That is the poart I am struggling with, whether or not there was a manifestation of some sort and these men were just deceived or that they are just liars.

 

[gennaoanothen]

Yeah, that was the first thing I looked up. The Seven Sons of Sceva in Acts 19, and it supports the idea that they could not cast out the demons, because they did not belong to Christ.

I would say that most likely, these men really believed that they had done these things . . .though we know they could not have, they deluded themselves into believing that they were working signs and wonders (in whatever capacity). Either way the issue is that they failed to do the will of the Father and instead, probably tried to exploit His power for their own gain . . .but I'd like to offer a more solid argument as I continue to think about this. . .to determine whether or not we can really resume that there was no manifestation of said signs and wonders. That is the poart I am struggling with, whether or not there was a manifestation of some sort and these men were just deceived or that they are just liars.

I understand, but I do not believe there was any actual casting out a demon, or works in Jesus Name performed by them.
They probably had a head knowledge about Jesus or a theological understanding, but they were void of the Holy Spirit.
and I believe the harmony of scripture will show that without Jesus in you, you do not have authority to do the Fathers will, ie heal the sick cast out devils, in the Name of Jesus.

another words with out belonging to the Fathers kingdom, you do not have kingdom authority.

and supplanter when I use the word you, you know I am not reffering to you.

 

[Supplanter]

I understand, but I do not believe there was any actual casting out a demon, or works in Jesus Name performed by them.
They probably had a head knowledge about Jesus or a theological understanding, but they were void of the Holy Spirit.
and I believe the harmony of scripture will show that without Jesus in you, you do not have authority to do the Fathers will, ie heal the sick cast out devils, in the Name of Jesus.

another words with out belonging to the Fathers kingdom, you do not have kingdom authority.

and supplanter when I use the word you, you know I am not reffering to you.

lol. yes, I understood that was a general you. Not to worry. I am not easily offended. I agree with you. I just feel like I need to make a more solid argument to present to other people. I need to figure out how to explain it, so someone who doesn't see that, understands and so that I have it in my heart and mind, because I never looked at it in that way before now. Well, maybe I did, but I then I went on to presume that they must have done those things, which was a fallacy.

 

[gennaoanothen]

And can someone actually 'hunt heresy' without having ammunition?

of course anyone can misquote people and take what they say out of context, of what they actually said.
people do it all the time, with the Word of God.
example, Pauls suffering was a sickness