Matthew 5 "fulfill the Law" - and 2 contexts: A-Moral Law, B-Ceremonial

[BobRyan]

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I'm interested in discussing all the key words and phrases of the above.
Of special interest to me are these words and their phrases -

1. destroy
2. fulfil
3. jots
4. tittles
5. fulfilled

Yes other passages apply to and are affected by Mat 5:17-18 and are welcome to the discussion.

Can we agree that Christ perfectly fulfilled (complied with) the Law to "Not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 and to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

1. Moral Law can be perfectly fulfilled (complied with) and doing so does not give others the open door to be immoral and not be guilty of sin.

(Where Matthew 5 confines itself to the moral law -- perfectly complied with (fulfilled) in the case of Christ and the "examples" the text gives. "Obviously"

2. Predictive Law in ceremonies can be fulfilled (fulfilling a promise, as predicted) - and does not obligate anyone else to fulfill that prediction.

So then "perfectly fulfilled" has two contexts.

... I claim Christ fulfilled both moral law and predictive ceremonial law...

hence - it is "still a sin to take God's name in vain"

 

[ace of hearts]

Can we agree that Christ perfectly fulfilled (complied with) the Law to "Not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 and to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

1. Moral Law can be perfectly fulfilled (complied with) and doing so does not give others the open door to be immoral and not be guilty of sin.

(Where Matthew 5 confines itself to the moral law -- perfectly complied with (fulfilled) in the case of Christ and the "examples" the text gives. "Obviously"

2. Predictive Law in ceremonies can be fulfilled (fulfilling a promise, as predicted) - and does not obligate anyone else to fulfill that prediction.

So then "perfectly fulfilled" has two contexts.

... I claim Christ fulfilled both moral law and predictive ceremonial law...

hence - it is "still a sin to take God's name in vain"

So you start another thread and still don't respond to the contents of my post.

 

[miamited]

Hi bob,

I'm always in agreement with the Scriptures. Jesus said that he did not come to destroy the law. That's a true statement. The law of God still stands and shall always. But, let's remember the purpose of the law. The law was given to convict of sin. It still does. Paul's own words were that by the law shall no flesh be saved. That was true before Jesus came and is still true now that he waits ready to receive those who are his.

Jesus came to 'complete' the law. The law convicts and by the law we know that we are sinners. There was no hope. No one could keep the law, except God's Son. Jesus, however, came to give us that hope. To show us that even while we were yet sinners, we could have an enduring and steadfast hope that our lawlessness will be forgiven.

Yes, the law still stands. And no, no one can keep it perfectly. Praise God for Jesus! He is our righteousness because we certainly can't earn any righteousness of our own efforts. We are still sinners and the law still stands.

Oh, and yes, it is, was and shall always be a sin to use God's name in cursing.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[BABerean2]

Can we agree that Christ perfectly fulfilled (complied with) the Law to "Not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 and to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

1. Moral Law can be perfectly fulfilled (complied with) and doing so does not give others the open door to be immoral and not be guilty of sin.

(Where Matthew 5 confines itself to the moral law -- perfectly complied with (fulfilled) in the case of Christ and the "examples" the text gives. "Obviously"

2. Predictive Law in ceremonies can be fulfilled (fulfilling a promise, as predicted) - and does not obligate anyone else to fulfill that prediction.

So then "perfectly fulfilled" has two contexts.

... I claim Christ fulfilled both moral law and predictive ceremonial law...

hence - it is "still a sin to take God's name in vain"

The term "Moral Law" is not found in scripture.
It is an invention of men found in the Westminster Confession of Faith.

Christ contrasts the Old Covenant with the higher standard of the New Covenant in the passage below.


Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'

Mat 5:22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,

Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

Mat 5:25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.

Mat 5:26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.



Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'

Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.



Mat 5:31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'

Mat 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.



Mat 5:33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.'

Mat 5:34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;

Mat 5:35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.

Mat 5:36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.

Mat 5:37 But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.



Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'

Mat 5:39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

Mat 5:40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.

Mat 5:41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.

Mat 5:42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.



Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'

Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

Mat 5:45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

Mat 5:47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?

Mat 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.



Confirmation of the contrast between the Old Covenant and New Covenant is found below.


2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,

2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?



Gal 4:24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—

Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—

Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:27 For it is written: "REJOICE, O BARREN, YOU WHO DO NOT BEAR! BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR! FOR THE DESOLATE HAS MANY MORE CHILDREN THAN SHE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.

Gal 4:29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.



Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.



Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.

Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.

Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.



Heb 12:18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, (Mount Sinai)

Heb 12:19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.

Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW."

Heb 12:21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")

Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,

Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

.

 

[BobRyan]

So you start another thread and still don't respond to the contents of my post.

On the contrary - it is right there. Feel free to respond.

 

[BobRyan]

The term "Moral Law" is not found in scripture.
It is an invention of men found in the Westminster Confession of Faith.

Hi BB, (welcome to the thread)

Both the "Baptist Confession of Faith", C.H. Spurgeon - and "Westminster Confession of Faith" use that term and they do so for a number of reasons in the Bible not the least of which is 1 Cor 7:19 where the ceremonial law is contrasted with the moral law of God. "Circumcision does not matter - what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

so while the ceremonial law has ended the moral law of God such as "do not take God's name in vain" remains. That is right - it would still be "sin" for you to "take God's name in vain"! (As we all know)

Thus what matters "is keeping the Commandments of God" where that Law is the one where "the fifth commandment is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

No wonder the New Covenant says "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 instead of "I will abolish My Law"

 

[miamited]

Hi Ted, (welcome to the thread)

Both the "Baptist Confession of Faith", C.H. Spurgeon - and "Westminster Confession of Faith" use that term and they do so for a number of reasons in the Bible not the least of which is 1 Cor 7:19 where the ceremonial law is contrasted with the moral law of God. "Circumcision does not matter - what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

so while the ceremonial law has ended the moral law of God such as "do not take God's name in vain" remains. That is right - it would still be "sin" for you to "take God's name in vain"! (As we all know)

Thus what matters "is keeping the Commandments of God" where that Law is the one where "the fifth commandment is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

No wonder the New Covenant says "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 instead of "I will abolish My Law"

Hi rob,

I don't have a problem with this 'term' you're speaking of...I don't think. I also agree that a born again child of God should desire to keep the law. He should desire and strive to keep the law because of his love and desire for a closer relationship with God. No argument as far as whether or not we should want to keep the law. However, I know that we can't and I also know that keeping the law will not save anyone. It is actually that relationship with God through Jesus, that allows us the hope of our soon coming salvation.

BTW, Jeremiah didn't write any of the new covenant. The old covenant foretells that there is coming a time when God will write His law on their hearts and minds. That time is now. The writer of Hebrews, in reminding the Jews of the day that was coming, and had at that point come, repeats Jeremiah's prophecy.

For the record, I've never taught or believed that the law has been abolished.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[BABerean2]

Hi Ted, (welcome to the thread)

Both the "Baptist Confession of Faith", C.H. Spurgeon - and "Westminster Confession of Faith" use that term and they do so for a number of reasons in the Bible not the least of which is 1 Cor 7:19 where the ceremonial law is contrasted with the moral law of God. "Circumcision does not matter - what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

so while the ceremonial law has ended the moral law of God such as "do not take God's name in vain" remains. That is right - it would still be "sin" for you to "take God's name in vain"! (As we all know)

Thus what matters "is keeping the Commandments of God" where that Law is the one where "the fifth commandment is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

No wonder the New Covenant says "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 instead of "I will abolish My Law"

The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith copied most of the Westminster Confession.
Their main changes were related to infant baptism.
Almost all man-made confessions are flawed.


Your attempts to make the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant one and the same fall apart in the passage below, which contrasts the Sinai Covenant with the New Covenant of Christ.

.

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
(Mount Sinai)
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

The same thing happens in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Galatians 4:24-31, and in Hebrews 7:12.

The same contrast is also found in Matthew chapter 5, when Christ said "But I say..."
See Post #4 above.
.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yep interesting thread Bob,

This is what I have been trying to share elsewhere with others. MATTHEW 5:17 is in reference to both the MOSIAC BOOK of the shadow laws, the prophets and the psalms as well as God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS in the OLD and NEW COVENANTS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

So when it says JESUS did not come to destroy the LAW and the prophets many actually try to do just this by trying to claim that JESUS fullfilled God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) so that we do not have to. We know this is NOT true because JESUS goes on to MAGNIFY God's LAW (10 Commandments) applying the 10 commandments to our very thoughts and feelings from the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour.

MATTHEW 5:17 is stating JESUS did not come to destroy the law and the prophets. All the SHADOW laws that pointed to JESUS as the MESSIAH are fulfilled in JESUS just as he perfectly fulfilled God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) in order to be our perfect sacrifice for sin to show us God's LOVE and to bring us back to God.

God's WORD does not say JESUS fulfilled God's LAW so that we are now free to break it. God's WORD does not teach lawlessness. JESUS saves us from SIN not to to continue in sin *JOHN 8:31-36.

God bless.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi rob,

I don't have a problem with this 'term' you're speaking of...I don't think. I also agree that a born again child of God should desire to keep the law. He should desire and strive to keep the law because of his love and desire for a closer relationship with God. No argument as far as whether or not we should want to keep the law. However, I know that we can't and I also know that keeping the law will not save anyone. It is actually that relationship with God through Jesus, that allows us the hope of our soon coming salvation.

Rom 3:23 "ALL have sinned" -- no question about it.

No lost person can become a saved person by law-keeping Rom 3:19-20

BUT in Romans 8:4-11 Paul says there is only one group that "does not submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" and that is the lost.

Because the saved are under the New Covenant, have the LAW written on heart and mind AND walk according to the Spirit. So then the Romans 6 and Romans 8 rules apply to the saved - not the lost.

BTW, Jeremiah didn't write any of the new covenant.

Of course he did..

Jer 31:
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

The old covenant foretells that there is coming a time when God will write His law on their hearts and minds. That time is now. The writer of Hebrews, in reminding the Jews of the day that was coming, and had at that point come, repeats Jeremiah's prophecy.

The language is unchanged in Hebrews 8:6-11 where we are informed that it is the same NEW Covenant of Jer 31 and that it has the same tense in terms of the promise.

For the record, I've never taught or believed that the law has been abolished.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Well then we are both on the same page in that regard my friend.

 

[BobRyan]

The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith copied most of the Westminster Confession.
Their main changes were related to infant baptism.
Almost all man-made confessions are flawed.

Your attempts to make the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant one and the same fall apart in the passage below, which contrasts the Sinai Covenant with the New Covenant of Christ.

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
(Mount Sinai)
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

The same thing happens in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Galatians 4:24-31, and in Hebrews 7:12.

The same contrast is also found in Matthew chapter 5, when Christ said "But I say..."
See Post #4 above.
.

1. The New Covenant is found in Jeremiah 31:31-33
2. There is only ONE Gospel Gal 1:6-9 and it was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 -- and is the NEW Covenant.
3. The old Covenant in its basic concept was "Obey and Live" as Gal 3 points out - and everyone who is lost is lost under that covenant of LAW - still to this very day.
4. Fulfilling perfectly - a moral command - does not delete it or make it right for someone else to take God's name in vain.

 

[BABerean2]

So when it says JESUS did not come to destroy the LAW and the prophets many actually try to do just this by trying to claim that JESUS fullfilled God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) so that we do not have to.

We find the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant below.

In Galatians 3:16-29 Paul says the Sinai Covenant was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed(Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

We find below that the New Covenant is a higher standard of conduct than the Old Covenant.

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

.

 

[ace of hearts]

On the contrary - it is right there. Feel free to respond.

OK So it's still a sin to take God's name in vain. Now what?

 

[BobRyan]

Hi bob,

I'm always in agreement with the Scriptures. Jesus said that he did not come to destroy the law. That's a true statement. The law of God still stands and shall always. But, let's remember the purpose of the law. The law was given to convict of sin. It still does.

Hi Ted - welcome to the thread.

Yes all that you have said is true. Amen!

Paul's own words were that by the law shall no flesh be saved. That was true before Jesus came and is still true now that he waits ready to receive those who are his.

Amen! Rom 3:19-20 absolutely true just as you say.

Jesus came to 'complete' the law. The law convicts and by the law we know that we are sinners. There was no hope. No one could keep the law, except God's Son. Jesus, however, came to give us that hope. To show us that even while we were yet sinners, we could have an enduring and steadfast hope that our lawlessness will be forgiven.

Yes! True! Amen again!

Yes, the law still stands. And no, no one can keep it perfectly. Praise God for Jesus! He is our righteousness because we certainly can't earn any righteousness of our own efforts. We are still sinners and the law still stands.

All true. However the fact that you do not take God's name in vain today - does not mean that all your past sins did not exist - you would still need salvation.

And the fact that you have a sinful nature as a saved born-again saint does not mean you "still must continue to take God's name in vain" as 1 Cor 10 says "God will not allow you to be tempted beyond that which you are able" and Romans 8:4-11 says only the lost "do not submit to the law of God neither indeed can they". Romans 6 makes the case we are slaves of the one that we actually obey.

Oh, and yes, it is, was and shall always be a sin to use God's name in cursing.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Amen!

And it is interesting because that command "do not take God's name in vain" was true from Eden to this very day... yet is first "written in stone" in Ex 20:7

 

[BobRyan]

OK So it's still a sin to take God's name in vain. Now what?

now we agree that Christ perfectly fulfilled that moral command - part of the moral law of God as Matthew 5 states - but in fulfilling (perfectly complying) He did not open a door of rebellion for us - to ignore the moral law of God. Rather He enables the Gospel benefit of the LAW written on heart and mind under the NEW Covenant. It is not even remotely deleting the moral law to fulfill (comply with) it.

I "tried" to have that discussion with you on your thread - but you did not appear to be willing to have it then.

 

[ace of hearts]

Hi BB, (welcome to the thread)

Both the "Baptist Confession of Faith", C.H. Spurgeon - and "Westminster Confession of Faith" use that term and they do so for a number of reasons in the Bible not the least of which is 1 Cor 7:19 where the ceremonial law is contrasted with the moral law of God. "Circumcision does not matter - what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

so while the ceremonial law has ended the moral law of God such as "do not take God's name in vain" remains. That is right - it would still be "sin" for you to "take God's name in vain"! (As we all know)

Thus what matters "is keeping the Commandments of God" where that Law is the one where "the fifth commandment is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

No wonder the New Covenant says "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 instead of "I will abolish My Law"

So what does any of this have to do with Mat 5:17-18?

If Jesus came to fulfil (complete or satisfy) the law what law is it that's written on the heart?

 

[BobRyan]

1. The New Covenant is found in Jeremiah 31:31-33
2. There is only ONE Gospel Gal 1:6-9 and it was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 -- and is the NEW Covenant.
3. The old Covenant in its basic concept was "Obey and Live" as Gal 3 points out - and everyone who is lost is lost under that covenant of LAW - still to this very day.
4. Fulfilling perfectly - a moral command - does not delete it or make it right for someone else to take God's name in vain.

We find the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant below.

In Galatians 3:16-29 Paul says the Sinai Covenant was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed(Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

.

The Sabbath was 'made for MANKIND' Mark 2:27
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23
Isaiah 56:6-8 gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping
It is a sin even for gentiles to "take God's name in vain" -- to this very day.

 

[BABerean2]

The Sabbath was 'made for MANKIND' Mark 2:27
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23
Isaiah 56:6-8 gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping

Col 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.


Some of us cannot let go of the covenant of "bondage", which is found below.

Gal 4:24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—
Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written: "REJOICE, O BARREN, YOU WHO DO NOT BEAR! BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR! FOR THE DESOLATE HAS MANY MORE CHILDREN THAN SHE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

.

 

[ace of hearts]

now we agree that Christ perfectly fulfilled that moral command - part of the moral law of God as Matthew 5 states - but in fulfilling (perfectly complying) He did not open a door of rebellion for us - to ignore the moral law of God. Rather He enables the Gospel benefit of the LAW written on heart and mind under the NEW Covenant. It is not even remotely deleting the moral law to fulfill (comply with) it.

I "tried" to have that discussion with you on your thread - but you did not appear to be willing to have it then.

Did I make that claim? No. Am I obligated to the law? No. Do I love Jesus? Yes! Do I love God the Father? Yes! Now why would I desecrate His name? Would it be because the law says it's a sin? No. Could it be because I love Him? Yes. Am I being lawless (living a wicked life style)? No. Did Jesus give new commandments? Yes! Jn 13:34 is a great example. Is complying with that obedience to the law (famous 10)? No. Does that mean I don't take His name in vain? Yes! Where does Jesus say it's OK to sin? Nowhere. Now what does that have to do with Mat 5:17-18? Nothing. But it does go down a rabbit trail away from Mat 5:17-18. Essentially what you're saying is Jesus didn't fulfil the law and we are required to fulfil the law. Is there any NT Scripture saying we're to keep (fulfil, practice) the law (famous 10). No. Does Jesus promote the law? Where? Maybe you'll try to use Mat 19 or one of the other accounts of the incident in the other two synoptic Gospels. What is the full story?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Col 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.


Some of us cannot let go of the covenant of "bondage", which is found below.

Gal 4:24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—
Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written: "REJOICE, O BARREN, YOU WHO DO NOT BEAR! BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR! FOR THE DESOLATE HAS MANY MORE CHILDREN THAN SHE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

Your confused brother, your mixing up the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's ETERNAL LAW in the NEW COVENANT that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHOTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7: 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT was how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT points to?

COLOSSIANS 2 is talking about the SHADOW laws in CIRCUMCISION and BAPTISM v11-13 then the MOSIAC SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES v14. So the CONTEXT of the chapter is the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT that point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT. Now v16 PAUL is referening the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures to do with the SHADOW laws in FEAST days.

COLOSSIANS 2:16 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY [FEASTIVALS], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS <plural>:

PAUL is quoting from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures here..

EZEKIEL 45:17 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give BURNT OFFERINGS, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the Sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a MEAT OFFERING, mingled with oil, and the DRINK OFFERING thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of EVERY SABBATH, beside the continual BURN'T OFFERING, and his DRINK OFFERING.

ISAIAH 1:10-14 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your NEW MOONS and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

LEVITICUS 23:4 [4] These are THE FEASTS OF THE LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread…… [13] And the MEAT OFFERING thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the DRINK OFFERING thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

HOSEA 2:11 [11], I will also cause all her mirth to CEASE, HER [ISRAEL'S] FEAST DAYS, her NEW MOONS, and HER SABBATHS, and all HER [ISRAELS] SOLEMN FEASTS.

wait for it back to the NEW...

HEBREWS 9:1-12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

HEBREWS 10:1-9
[1], FOR THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, AND NOT THE VERY IMAGE OF THE THINGS, CAN NEVER WITH THOSE SACRIFICES which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[2], For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[3], But in those SACRIFICES there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[4], For it is not possible that THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND GOATS should take away sins.
[5], Why when he comes into the world, he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS YOU WOULD NOT BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME:
[6], IN BURN'T OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN YOU HAVE HAD NO PLEASURE.
[7], Then said I, See, I come in the VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME, to do your will, O God.
[8], Above when he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU WOULD NOT, neither had pleasure therein; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW;
[9], Then said he, See, I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.

NOTE; the LAW in reference here is NOT God's 10 Commandments but the law of sin offereings from the SHADOW laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the LAW *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26 from the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 (Please look at the attached scriptures)

.........

CONCLUSION; The CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION is a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT pointing to a NEW HEART to LOVE and OBEY GOD in the NEW COVENANT. The SHADOW laws of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant are the within CHAPTER CONTEXT BEFORE COL 2:14
Colossians 2 is not a reference to God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) that give us a knowledge of what SIN is when broken. They are a reference to the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 that point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

..............

The weekly SABBATH is a requirement outside of the ANNUAL FEASTS as it is one of God's ETNERNAL LAWS (10 commandments)

God's 4th commandment.

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> [Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day] [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God [This is a direct reference from God's Word defining what the Sabbath is; The SABBATH = the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK]: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and MADE IT HOLY.

According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNES *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. According to God's WORD if we break any one of God's 10 Commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

Sorry brother your only being warned in love. You mix up your Shadow laws with God's 10 Commandments. Besides God's 4th Commandment which is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH written on stone, there were "SPECIAL" annual ceremonial Sabbath connected to the annual Jewish festivals in the OLD COVENANT written in the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

Besides God's 4th Commandment which is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH written on stone, there were "SPECIAL" annual ceremonial Sabbath connected to the annual Jewish festivals in the OLD COVENANT written in the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

These ceremonial Sabbath were not God's 4th Commandment of the 10 Commandments but were connected to annual festivals and could fall on ANY DAY of the week depending on the yearly cycle (please read LEVITICUS 23;24-39).

These ceremonial "SPECIAL" Sabbath were connected to..

* Annual festival of The blowing of trumpet (Leviticus 23:24)
* Annual Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:32)
* Annual Feast of tabernacles (Leviticus 23:39)

These "SPECIAL" Sabbath could fall on any day and were connected directly to these festivals that were prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and God's plan of Salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

You have your Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT mixed up with God's ETERNAL LAW that give us a KNOWLEDGE of sin (Romans 3:20).

DETAILED SCRIPTURE SUPPORT COLOSSIANS 2 LINKING THE NEW TESTAMENT TO OLD

Hope this is helpful.

God bless.