Matthew 4:17

[dreadnought]

Heaven, of course, is what our lives become when we repent of our sin (Matt 4:17). It's not a popular message. I suspect that is because not a lot of people are eager to repent of their sin. And, yes, life is eternal (John 3:16).

I've never shared this in a United Methodist/Nazerene forum before. I am curious what the reaction will be.

 

[Soyeong]

Heaven, of course, is what our lives become when we repent of our sin (Matt 4:17). It's not a popular message. I suspect that is because not a lot of people are eager to repent of their sin. And, yes, life is eternal (John 3:16).

I've never shared this in a United Methodist/Nazerene forum before. I am curious what the reaction will be.

Indeed, Christianity is just as much about getting heaven into us as it is about getting us into heaven.

 

[Basil the Great]

Your message about sin and repentance would have been a very normal preaching message within the former Methodist Church and it's former sister denomination, the Evangelical United Brethren Church, say 3-4 generations back. (They merged to form the UMC in the late 1960's.) However, this is not the type of message that has very common now for decades. I think that altar calls were quite normal as well, but again, this has not been too common for sometime now, unless it is in the UMC churches in the South? I cannot speak to the more conservative Wesleyan groups like the Nazarenes and the Primitive Methodists and the Free Methodists. Maybe some of them still have altar calls and maybe they still preach about sin and repentance?

 

[dreadnought]

Your message about sin and repentance would have been a very normal preaching message within the former Methodist Church and it's former sister denomination, the Evangelical United Brethren Church, say 3-4 generations back. (They merged to form the UMC in the late 1960's.) However, this is not the type of message that has very common now for decades. I think that altar calls were quite normal as well, but again, this has not been too common for sometime now, unless it is in the UMC churches in the South? I cannot speak to the more conservative Wesleyan groups like the Nazarenes and the Primitive Methodists and the Free Methodists. Maybe some of them still have altar calls and maybe they still preach about sin and repentance?

All I can witness to is what I see with my own eyes. My church conference, the California-Nevada Conference, has gone badly astray and has been losing members by the droves. I fear it will spread across the country.

 

[Basil the Great]

Well, I began a thread on this topic a few months back re: a possible split within the UMC over the issue. If the UMC eventually votes to be like the Episcopal Church, the United Church of the Christ, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and the Presbyterian Church (USA), then there are only two options it would seem. There could be a split in the denomination like there was during the Civil War or maybe no official split, but perhaps 1/3 of the UMC members might just decide to walk out and go to more conservative denominations.

 

[dreadnought]

Well, I began a thread on this topic a few months back re: a possible split within the UMC over the issue. If the UMC eventually votes to be like the Episcopal Church, the United Church of the Christ, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and the Presbyterian Church (USA), then there are only two options it would seem. There could be a split in the denomination like there was during the Civil War or maybe no official split, but perhaps 1/3 of the UMC members might just decide to walk out and go to more conservative denominations.

Yes, I've heard talk about a split but know little about it. I don't know how we/they could pull it off, though. Where would the money come to build the new churches? The better strategy would be to steer the church to the right, if we could accomplish that. I'm hoping that the rest of the country doesn't follow the path of the California-Nevada Conference.

 

[Creech]

Heaven, of course, is what our lives become when we repent of our sin (Matt 4:17). It's not a popular message. I suspect that is because not a lot of people are eager to repent of their sin. And, yes, life is eternal (John 3:16).

I've never shared this in a United Methodist/Nazerene forum before. I am curious what the reaction will be.

I'm a little confused by what I bolded, and I don't think Matthew 4:17 would support this statement. Can you elaborate on how you read the passage? I don't think Jesus is saying our lives become heaven, as the Kingdom of heaven is just Matthew's way of saying the Kingdom of God. The way I read this, Jesus is inviting all to repent and turn to God in order to prepare for the kingdom and the new world he is establishing.

 

[Another Lazarus]

Heaven, of course, is what our lives become when we repent of our sin (Matt 4:17)

The kingdom of Heaven is not found in the churches, in palaces, or in gold or in diamond, or in abundant banquet.

The glory of God is found when we forgive one another and pray for those who persecute us, and share our bread with the needy.

 

[dreadnought]

I'm a little confused by what I bolded, and I don't think Matthew 4:17 would support this statement. Can you elaborate on how you read the passage? I don't think Jesus is saying our lives become heaven, as the Kingdom of heaven is just Matthew's way of saying the Kingdom of God. The way I read this, Jesus is inviting all to repent and turn to God in order to prepare for the kingdom and the new world he is establishing.

The Lord commanded us to repent. The only way to find out what this passage means is to repent. The reason I put it that way is that I figured a lot of people might already be aware of this.