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Featured Matthew 25 Jesus Returns In Final Judgment, Eternal Kingdom

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Truth7t7, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    I somewhat disagree with your wording of John 5:24 in the word "Resurrection" when a believer is saved, and is translated from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light. The words "quickened" "living" etc is a better fit?.

    The word resurrection is reserved for the bodily, not spiritual?

    John 5:24 is a prelude into the bodily resurrection as seen in John 5:28-29.

    I did a check on "Resurrection" in the New Testament KJV, with 40 results, looks like they all refer to the bodily resurrection?

    When discussing biblical views, resurrection is almost entirely refers to the bodily?
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  2. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Yes absolutely ,, from some of your earlier posts , it seemed like you did not believe this
    I was going to ask you about it
    although it is not flesh and bone like we have now it will be something similar , something of a physical made , since it be glorified and never die etc , but we don't know what material it will be made from , only God would know that
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  3. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    There is a point in time when "spiritual" events are a reality, just as heaven is now a real thing.
    I used to be dead.

    Now I am alive, and indwelled by the Spirit sent from God. (1 Corinthians 3:16)
    This is a reality.


    Joh 5:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 


    If a person were dead and then became alive what would most people call it?
    Lazarus was dead and then he became alive.



    Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 

    Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 
    Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 


    The first resurrection in Revelation chapter 20 is the same first resurrection found in John 5:24.

    The second resurrection in John chapter 5 is found in John 5:27-30.
    It is the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead.
    It is found at the end of Revelation chapter 20, which is the return of Christ, in "flaming fire".



    Rev 20:11  And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 


    Rev 20:12  And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 

    Rev 20:13  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 
    Rev 20:14  And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 


    .
     
  4. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Ok I better understand your reasoning :)


    John 5:24 I don't believe represent First Resurrection, as seen in Revelation 20:6

    If you look at the verse the believer is blessed to be in the "First Resurrection" because there are two resurrections on the last day as seen in John 5:28-29

    The term "Second Death" in Revelation 20:6 is the resurrection of the wicked, to the lake of fire, the believer is blessed not to partake in the second death/resurrection :)

    There are two future resurrections on the last day, "First the righteous" into the kingdom, "Second the wicked" into the lake of fire.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  5. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    I just want to say thank you. Instead of being very aggressive, you have been kind and patient with me. You make very good points and are honest about them. May God bless you!
     
  6. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Will you be honest with the forum?

    Please respond to post #260 in this thread.
     
  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Then what is the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20:6?

    How is the text from John 5:24 linked to the resurrection of life in John 5:29?
    Can you have the resurrection of life in John 5:29 without being first passed from death to life in John 5:24?
    Which one must come first?



    Joh 5:28  Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 
    Joh 5:29  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 

    .
     
  8. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    You have been very aggressive multiple times , I have tried to reach you on various levels but you get on the defensive quick . You speak of Jesus speaking in parables which are similar to analogies , I give you facts of real things happening in life and instead of trying to be understanding you will only say it be conspiracy theories . You simply are not willing to be understanding of anything shared with you unless it is what you want to hear,

    30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

    This scripture is Jesus speaking of HIMSELF coming on the clouds in great glory , He is point blank saying that the generation that sees the Great tribulation is the same generation that will see Jesus 2nd coming , and he is telling you that when he comes in the 2nd advent HE will be the One who is coming on the clouds in Great Glory , But you say that has happened already citing a vision Daniel had , That cannot be because Jesus is speaking of a future time when HE will be seen by the entire world coming on the clouds .Jesus is giving a prophecy of his own about Himself ,,it is LITERAL NOT hyperbole !

    40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

    This has not been fulfilled yet - NOT hyperbole !

    4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.

    It is too far fetched to think that this would happen in the generation of Jesus time for obvious reasons , The biblical books of the New Testament were still being written for nearly 70 years after Jesus ascended into heaven , If the Great Trib or Jesus return would have happened in an entire generation after Jesus accession we would have scripture about it or at least a historian writing about Jesus returning in power and great glory , but no such writings exist

    Two things you need to think about

    The key word in the scriptures you posted is ALL

    All the things in the entire discourse Must happen before Jesus returns

    When you acknowledge that ALL have not happened hopefully to will understand

    also considered the use of the word 'this'
    imagine someone speaking on radio taste testing potato chips and they pull a chip from a bowl and eat it and say This is the best tasting chip
    then they walk to another bowl and taste a chip from that bowl and say This is the best tasting chip . You will not know which chip they refer to as you cannot see them
    Unless they specify that they picking from a specific bowl

    The writer of the scripture did not expect that anyone would not see clearly that the scripture is of a prophetic matter that means ALL , as in ALL these things in the entire text will happen first before Jesus would be seen by every eye on earth seeing Him coming on the clouds in Great Glory
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  9. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    We believe in a future resurrection of the believer on the "Last Day" or second advent John 6:40?

    We believe this last day will account for the general resurrection of all that have lived John 5:28-29?

    In looking at Revelation 20:4-6 we see a "First Resurrection" and those that partake in this are blessed "Believer" the "Second Death or Resurrection" has no power over the dead believer, they live spiritually.

    There are "Two" future resurrections on the last day.

    Firsts the righteous

    &

    Second the wicked/second death

    It appears you want to apply first and second to the believer, not so :)

    Two resurrections are seen, second death represents the wicked resurrection.

    First/Believer

    Second death/Wicked
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  10. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Based on the passage below, does this bodily resurrection of "all" the dead include both the righteous and the wicked at the same hour?
    However, one is judged as righteous and one not?


    Are you saying that one happens before the other?
    If so what is the time interval in between the two?


    Joh 5:28  Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 
    Joh 5:29  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 

    .
     
  11. Truth7t7

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    When Jesus Christ returrns, earthly time ceases Revelation 10:6-7KJV

    Do you not see two separate resurrections in Revelation 20:4-6?

    Wheat and tares?

    Wicked are bound, tied up in bundles in the field?

    The wheat is gathered into the barn/kingdom

    The wrath of God is poured out on the wicked in the field.

    Two separate resurrections, one to eternal life, the other to eternal damnation.

    kingdom of light resurrected to eternal life

    kingdom of darkness resurrected to the lake of fire.

    Sheep on right, goats on left, separate resurrections and judgment on the last day.

    1 Corinthians 15:52-54 states the event of the resurrection is the twinkling of an eye.

    However when this takes place, time ceases, eternity begins.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  12. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Based on the above, I see only one simultaneous bodily resurrection for both the wicked and the just.
    This is what we find in Revelation 11:18.
    One group is rewarded and the other is destroyed.


    Therefore, the first resurrection in Revelation chapter 20 must be the same resurrection as John 5:24, because it actually happens before the bodily resurrection found later in Revelation chapter 20.

    The 1,000 years is symbolic of the "Church Age", with the "first resurrection" being the time when these souls came to faith in Christ.
    These souls consist of all believers from the thief on the cross at Calvary to the last believer who comes to faith during the end times.
    Some of these went through the "first resurrection" almost 2,000 years ago.


    There is also a direct link between John 5:24 and those who are part of the resurrection of life in the bodily resurrection found in John 5:27-30. You cannot be a part of the resurrection of life unless you previously went through John 5:24. The two are intimately connected.

    Why is this important? Because many people ignore John 5:24 and its critical role in the life of a Christian, who must be "born again" of the Spirit of God, found in John chapter 3, which only comes at the moment of faith in Christ.


    We may not agree on this one, but thanks for the discussion, Brother.

    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  13. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    We will disagree, there are two separate resurrections seen in Revelation 20:4-6 as previously shown.

    First Resurrection believer who is blessed

    Second death/resurrection wicked.

    Time has no bearing on the fact of two separate resurrections.

    John 5:24 is not a resurrection as previously explained, the word resurrection is reserved in the new testament for the bodily not the spiritual as seen in John 5:24

    We will disagree :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  14. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    What do you call it when a person who was dead becomes alive?

    .
     
  15. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    If your spiritually dead and receive Jesus in salvation you become a "christian" born of the spirit.

    If your like Lararus he was called forth or "raised from the dead" in a physical body that later died.

    In the future second advent, the believer will receive a glorifid body at the "resurrection"

    hope that helps :)
     
  16. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for finally answering my questions and your reasonings behind why you believe it to be that way.
     
  17. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 20:4-6 gives more precision...


    Those whose names are not found written in the Book of Life will be cast into the Lake of fire [this is the second death Revelation 20:15], and those whose names are written in the Book of Life will receive eternal life in a immortal incorruptible body and will be allowed to enter New Jerusalem that will come down on the New Earth Revelation 21 Revelation 22.


    1,000 years will separate the resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6....and the Great White Throne Judgment Revelation 20:11-15....it does not matter that you like it or not.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  18. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    You are welcome.

    pro3:5
    Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;
    in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.
    Do not be wise in your own eyes;

    2 Timothy
    All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work


    Even though in human culture and society , people use slang terms and use hyperbole , that is people ; -Not God , understand that the Holy Spirit is the One who authored the words of the Holy Bible and it was men who were the instrument of God to put those words on paper so that all generations could study the Word of God

    I hope that you will seek out a few BIBLE Believing churches and ask the pastors to help you come to understand better that Jesus has still yet to return ,when it happens everyone on earth will see it as it happens

    Rev1
    7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

    8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

    12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

    Rev2213 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

    18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

    19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
     
  19. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    2Th 1:7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 
    2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 
    2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 
    2Th 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. 



    2Ti 4:1  I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 



    Rev 11:18  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 



    .
     
  20. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Will you answer my question :)

    Do you believe in a future resurrection, where the believer will receive a "Glorified Immortal Body" like Jesus Christ Has, of flesh and bone?

    1 Corinthians 15:52-54, Philippians 3:2, Luke 24:39
     
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