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Featured Matthew 25 Jesus Returns In Final Judgment, Eternal Kingdom

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Truth7t7, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Is there no one in heaven? Are the saints still sleeping? Do we not have eternal life yet?

    You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
    1 Corinthians 15:36

    31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.
    John 12:31

    And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
    Hebrews 9:27
     
  2. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely agree, the kingdom is like a mustard seed.

    Times of the gentiles: time period from Babylon until Rome where old covenant Israel was under the rule of gentile nations. Daniel 2 fulfilled with Christ, which ended the time of the gentiles ruling over old covenant Israel. True new covenant Israel now under the reign of God, who dwells with the temple that is the body of Christ.

    but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the gentiles, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.
    Revelation 11:2

    This happened during the Jewish Roman war

    Thus reconciling that this generation would not pass until these things take place.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  3. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    You deny a future second advent as you teach this took place in 70AD, and you believe the resurrection and final judgment are at a persons individual personal death.

    Ninja you have identified yourself as a preterist, and yes you teach "Full Preterism"

    A teaching that is heretical in my opinion, and banned in this forum.

    (Eschatology Forum Statement Of Purpose)

    V. Additional Rules

    Full Preterism Is Not Allowed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  4. Allenbee

    Allenbee New Member

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    Well done to all of you arguing against supporters of the WRONG JESUS..."the angel of light".

    By their fruit you will recognize them;
    1; throw your Bible away...it's all happened before.
    2; Jesus is here NOW..."we" speak to him daily !!!
    3; To hell with the earth..."we" all going to heaven.

    Right up satan's alley, very ugly, disturbing and makes us feel dirty and sad.

    Lets clean up... with GOD'S WILL...FOR THE WHOLE EARTH... FOREVER !!!

    26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    27 And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    28 And God blessed them: and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food: 30 and to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens, and to everything that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, [I have given] every green herb for food: and it was so.

    31 And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

    Now let's see that beauty established FOREVER ;

    And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God: 4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away.

    So war in heaven, satan looses, cast out of heaven...new heavens.
    satan cast down to earth...war on earth, satan looses...new earth.

    Hellaluuuuuuuuuuu JAH !!!

    Come Lord Jesus...come.:amen:
     
  5. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    That is not what the text of Luke 21:24 says.

    The events of 70 AD occur first in the verse.
    The times of the Gentiles occurs after 70 AD.


    Luk 21:24  And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 
    Luk 21:25  And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 
    Luk 21:26  Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 
    Luk 21:27  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 




    We also have Paul making a reference to this same period of time, which clearly did not end during 70 AD.

    Rom 11:25  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 



    The times of the Gentiles ends at the future Second Coming of Christ.

    Christ was not seated at the Father's right hand and also returned to the earth in 70 AD.
    Rather, God used the Romans to destroy the city and the sanctuary, just as He had allowed the Babylonians to do the same thing earlier, before Christ was born.



    A second fatal flaw of Full Preterism is the fact that the New Covenant was consummated at Calvary. It did not wait until 70 AD, based on Hebrews 10:16-18. There was not a time period between 30 AD and 70 AD when a person could come to salvation through either the Old Covenant or the New Covenant. Jesus told Nicodemus that a person must be "born again" of the Spirit to see the kingdom of God.

    A third fatal flaw is the fact that this rotten, sin- cursed world's days are not eternal.
    When the sun consumes most of its hydrogen fuel, the sun will become a red giant and melt the surface of the earth. So much for an eternal state...



    When navigating the road of Bible prophecy we should stay out of the ditches.
    Modern Dispensational Theology is a ditch on one side of the road and Full-Preterism is the ditch on the other side.


    Both systems only work by ignoring certain passages of scripture.

    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  6. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Good point !
    That explains ninjas response
     
  7. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Not completely following you here, would you be able to clarify this a little bit. Please correct me if I am wrong on what you are saying. It appears that you are saying that the time frame from when the Jews are killed or taken captive by the gentiles is separate from when the gentiles trample Jerusalem?
    This is your timeline then:
    1. Jews killed/taken captive; then after that
    2. Jerusalem trampled by gentiles

    The only problem with this, is that it does not say the Jews will be killed/captured AND THEN jerusalem trampled by gentiles. Luke 21:20-24 are all about the same event. While the gentiles are trampling Jerusalem, Jews would be killed and captured.

    Luke 21:20-24
    And when ye may see Jerusalem surrounded by encampments, then know that come nigh did her desolation; 21then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains; and those in her midst, let them depart out; and those in the countries, let them not come in to her; 22because these are days of vengeance, to fulfil all things that have been written. 23And wo to those with child, and to those giving suck, in those days; for there shall be great distress on the land, and wrath on this
    people; 24and they shall fall by the mouth of the sword, and shall be led captive to all the nations, and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by nations, till the times of nations be fulfilled

    here is where I believe you make a good case for it being afterward, it says AND THEN.
    But the problem is still Luke 21:32
    verily I say to you — This generation may not pass away till all may have come to pass;

    The pharisees were also told they would see this Matthew 26:64 and the disciples were earlier told they would see this Matthew 13:27-28

    While i think this can be used to make a good point, I am still on the fence about this one, as even some futurist commentators say that this is different than the times of jerusalem being trampled by
    gentiles.

    agree to the point that it was future to those it was spoken to, as Christ said THIS GENERATION will not pass away after ALL THESE THINGS take place.

    agree, christ was the nobleman who went away to claim a kingdom (ascended to the fathers right hand) and then returned to punish those who didn't want him king.

    Luke 19:27
    And these enemies of mine who were unwilling for me to rule over them, bring them here and slay them in front of me.’”


    The old covenant never brought salvation even when it was in full effect before the new covenant (hebrews 8:7). This, i bet, we both agree upon. However, there definitely was a transition period of about 40 years:
    Hebrews 8:13
    In speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

    Absolutely agree, but the kingdom is eternal.

    I agree, and I would go even farther to say that all systems ignore certain verses to make theology work. Not just those 2.

    The problem is Luke 21:32 verily I say to you — This generation may not pass away till all may have come to pass;

    To say "this generation" is about a future one is to completely ignore context. Do you have a better answer for this, because if you do, I am genuinely and seriously interested.
     
  8. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    how am i a full preterist if I believe in a future resurrection and judgement?
     
  9. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    What is your belief on what happens when a person dies?
     
  10. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Ninja you have openly stated the second advent took place in 70 AD, the resurrection and final judgment is at a persons individual personal death.

    1. You deny a future second advent, as you teach this took place in 70AD.

    2. You deny a future bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ, as you teach this happens at a persons personal death.

    3. You deny a future final judgment of all, as you teach this happens at a persons personal death.

    Post #229 Your teacing in denial of a future second advent, Matthew 16:28 to support this teaching, "Standard Full Preterism"!

    You falsely teach "The Standard Full Preterist Eschatology"

    Your "Full Preterist" teaching is banned in this forum.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  11. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    The spirit is separated from the physical body and goes to either heaven or hades , because there are only 2 places it can go ,
    When we speak of the "dead in Christ" it means those who have been "born again" in spirit as Jesus taught a person must be born again in the spirit to be able to enter the Kingdom of God , so when a true born again Christian dies their spirit goes to be with the Lord Jesus in heaven. They will come with Jesus out of heaven when Jesus comes back to earth at his 2nd advent

    When a person dies that has rejected Jesus as savoir or simply not accepted because they do not believe in God and not be "born again" their spirit will go to hades and will be there until the Great White Throne judgment takes place
    Then they are judged and sentenced to spend eternity in the "lake of fire" where they are conscience and aware for all eternity that they should have accepted Jesus gift of salvation , it will be torment for eternity to know that all they had to do was believe on Christ and they chose not to
     
  12. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    The designation of a Valley of Jehoshaphat is applied as a specific toponym for the first time by the pilgrim of Bordeaux, in 333. Since then it has become a general designation for the Kidron Valley, between Jerusalem and the Mount of Olives, which is repeatedly mentioned in the Old Testament and the New, under its own name.
    Valley of Meggido , Valley of Jezzreal are in the same place all in the very same area as the war moves along the valley

    Book of Ezekiel has about 4 full chapters on this very same war

    Rev17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

    19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

    Matthew 24 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather

    Jol 3
    “In those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
    2 I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.
    There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel,
    because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.
    3 They cast lots for my people and traded boys for prostitutes; they sold girls for wine to drink.
    9 Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war! Rouse the warriors!
    Let all the fighting men draw near and attack.
    10 Beat your plowshares into swords
    and your pruning hooks into spears.
    Let the weakling say,
    “I am strong!”
    11 Come quickly, all you nations from every side, and assemble there.
    Bring down your warriors, Lord!
    12 “Let the nations be roused;let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat,
    for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side.

    14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision!
    For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.
    The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars no longer shine.
    16 The Lord will roar from Zion
    and thunder from Jerusalem;
    the earth and the heavens will tremble.
    But the Lord will be a refuge for his people,
    a stronghold for the people of Israel.

    YES there will be war , the bloodiest most horrific war the world has or will ever see during this GREAT TRIBULATION !

    Even the scientists tell us that Israel has the worlds largest population of every type of carnivorous flesh eating birds

    Have you accepted that there will be war as described above , seems if you could prove it wrong and provide evidence that Jesus has already returned you would have done so
     
  13. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    You are correct about th second advent. But you are making straw man arguments about the ressurection and judgement
     
  14. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    If Jesus said all these things would happen during his audiences generation, then I believe him.

    Did Jesus not suffer yet. Will Jesus suffer under a future generation?
    25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
    Luke 17:25 -
     
  15. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    That misunderstanding of yours is why you do not get the truth , you have been deceived by assumption , assumption with no evidence at all , when Jesus ascended into heaven he said he would always be with us , but that refers the "Comforter" The Holy Spirit that is with us , ONLY if we accept Jesus teaching of being born again , The time Jesus returns to earth is still in the future , the very near future ,
     
  16. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Please point out the misunderstanding about the passage posted
     
  17. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Stop the "Full Preterism" that is banned in this forum.
     
  18. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    You misunderstanding is abundantly clear
    You misinterpret the scripture by choice
    You think it means something that it does not mean
    You refuse Gods word when given , you say Jesus has returned , if it is true then you should have some evidence that it has happened, historical writings that say it has happened ,
    Again it is simply that you do not understand what you read , it should occur to you that simply because there are literally hundreds of scriptures that indicate that Jesus is yet to come should cause you to rethink how you see this. Jesus said himself that he would be gone and will send the Holy Spirit to comfort us while he is gone .
    You simply are deceived
     
  19. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    There are clearly 2 different questions found in Matthew's Gospel account.

    1. When will the temple be destroyed?

    2. What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age.

    The timeline seems much clearer in Luke's version and we can verify people being beaten in synagogues during Paul's persecution of the Church.
    We also have Christ warning the women about nursing mothers, while He was being led to the Cross. Luke 23:27-31


    We also have Christ weeping over the city and talking about the temple and the city being surrounded in Luke's Gospel. Luke 19:41-44.


    Another thing that many people overlook is the fact that some aspects of the kingdom occurred before Christ ascended to heaven.

    Luk 21:29  And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 
    Luk 21:30  When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. 
    Luk 21:31  So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. 


    (Mat_12:28  But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.)

    Some aspects of the kingdom came into being during His earthly ministry, based on Matthew 12:28, because He did cast out devils before Calvary.

    Luk 21:32  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. 

    Did some aspects of the kingdom come in during His earthly ministry, and His sacrifice, and His resurrection from the dead?

    (Luk_16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.)

    People were being pressed into the kingdom of God, since the time of John the Baptist.

    Once a person becomes "born again" through the Spirit of God, which is the resurrection from the dead found in John 5:24, they have already passed into the kingdom of God.
    Therefore, there is a present and a future aspect to the kingdom for those who are in Christ.





    We may never figure it all out completely and so sometimes we may have to agree to disagree on some topics.

    I appreciate the kind conversation.


    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  20. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Do you believe in a future resurrection, where the believer will receive a "Glorified Immortal Body" like Jesus Christ Has, of flesh and bone?

    1 Corinthians 15:52-54, Philippians 3:2, Luke 24:39
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
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