Matthew 24

Echolipse

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Because He comes at the end of the seven years, I understand that we wont rise to meet Him until AFTER the tribulation.

The day of the Lord will come like a thief to the world but not to believers.

Ya, I'm familiar with the post-trib theory. Wasn't sure if I'd get any bites from pre-tribs.

Thanks for your comment though.
 
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granpa

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**Just a thought and looking for opinions**

Ref Matt 24:38 is it possible that Jesus was referring to only when he ends the War of Armegeddon and not about the rapture.

I'm thinking this due to the verse comes at the end of the 7-years.

Comments?
Jesus is clearly talking about a tsunami.
 
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keras

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In the 'days of Noah' they lived just as we do now, mostly without a thought of our Maker, committing all kinds of sins. He destroyed them all except 8 people, this time He has fire stored up until the Day of Doom. Deut 32:22 & 34-35
So the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath does not come at the Return, but very soon, triggered by an attack on Israel, as Psalm 83 describes. It will be the next great 'reset of civilization', enabling the establishment of a One World Govt, but the Lord's people will gather and settle in the holy Land, being at last a 'light to the nations'.
 
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Interplanner

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Your options are too limited. A "coming" can also mean the visitation on Israel of the wrath of the DofJ in 66+. One word-choice reason for thinking so is that Dan 9's "end" would come "like a flood." In this sense, the 'taken' ones are destroyed, as indicated by v39.

In general the materials here are about the 1st century issues until v29 when they make global reference. Notice how much is about Judea, and immediate, and practical, and how similar it is to Mt 10 about the 70 who preached throughout Israel. The expectation is that the world would end right after the DofJ. But there is the allowance that only the Father would decide that, and we now know He decided not then.

So the warnings of 32+, 36+, 42+, 45+ sort of loop back and are practical both to people in the 1st century when the zealot revolution took on Rome and lost pitifully, and to the Return. This does not answer whether the "coming" of v37 is the Return, because even the 1st ministry of Christ was a "coming", Lk. 19:44.
 
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JLB777

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**Just a thought and looking for opinions**

Ref Matt 24:38 is it possible that Jesus was referring to only when he ends the War of Armegeddon and not about the rapture.

I'm thinking this due to the verse comes at the end of the 7-years.

Comments?

You have to connect who was marrying and given in marriage, as well as who THEY were.

Which is why the earth was destroyed.

See Genesis 6.


JLB
 
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Douggg

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Verse 38 is referring to the gathering of the elect, and so are the parables that follow. The elect will be gathered right before God's wrath falls, just like it was in the days of Noah.

Before the AOD is setup to be worshipped?


Doug
 
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Psalm 91

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In the 'days of Noah' they lived just as we do now, mostly without a thought of our Maker, committing all kinds of sins. He destroyed them all except 8 people, this time He has fire stored up until the Day of Doom. Deut 32:22 & 34-35
So the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath does not come at the Return, but very soon, triggered by an attack on Israel, as Psalm 83 describes. It will be the next great 'reset of civilization', enabling the establishment of a One World Govt, but the Lord's people will gather and settle in the holy Land, being at last a 'light to the nations'.


It is looking like it's not time yet for Israel to be attacked as most of the action is in Syria and Egypt. The only connection I see to Israel is that Iran has warned the U.S. not to get involved in Syria...or else. But they don't say what the "or else" might be. Some speculate that Iran would attack Israel, but I doubt that. I don't think they have the courage to attack Israel. Every Arab country, as well as Iran, knows that Israel as been attacked before and always won. So I don't think any of them will attack alone. And even when they get a nuclear weapon, if they use it on Israel, they will destroy Arab countries too, with the radiation.

I am not sure if I am a pre-tribber or a mid-tribber but I will say that at the end when Jesus comes back there won't be many people left. And there will have been such a horrible time, how is it that they'd be like in the days of Noah, eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage? And anyone left who truly is a believer will be waiting and knowing that He's coming soon. I mean, the Battle of Armageddon will be taking place and the world will be in a shambles. So I think it will be pre-trib or mid-trib and I usually have leaned toward mid-trib. But I'm thinking lately that it will be pre-trib and my reason is not based on Scripture, lol. It is based on the fact that so many pastors, the most respected pastors in this country believe in a pre-trib Rapture. I really think that if they were wrong, God would tell them in some way so they would not deceive the people. Even Greg Laurie, whom I really respect and others believe in pre-trib. God would tell them in a dream or some way if they were wrong. It might sound crazy but those people are teaching God's people and I really believe that if the pre-trib Rapture was not a valid Scriptural teaching, God would let us know in some way. I know He would.
 
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Psalm 91

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I thought of another reason why I am turning more toward pre-trib. The early Christians in Thessalonica were concerned and thinking that they'd missed the Rapture. In 2Thessalonians Paul had to reassure them and explain to them what to expect to happen before the Rapture would occur. He didn't mention the Great Tribulation or the wrath of God happening first.
 
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keras

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Psalm 91, Your confidence is misplaced, the Bible tells us an alliance of nations will attack Israel, Psalm 83 and the Lord will destroy them by fire. Paul also tells us of this fire judgement in 2 Thess 1:7-9 an in v10 He will reveal Himself to His believers. This all happens on earth, no rapture mentioned here.
Regarding leaders and teachers, the Bible tells us there will be many false teachers, so we must each check the truth and not rely on ideas and theories that may not have scriptural support. Isaiah 56:9-12, Jer. 14:11-13, 2Tim 4:3-4
 
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JLB777

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I thought of another reason why I am turning more toward pre-trib. The early Christians in Thessalonica were concerned and thinking that they'd missed the Rapture. In 2Thessalonians Paul had to reassure them and explain to them what to expect to happen before the Rapture would occur. He didn't mention the Great Tribulation or the wrath of God happening first.

He didn't mention the Great Tribulation?

The Abomination of Desolation is what triggers the Great Tribulation.

That is what he starts off by explaining.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

The man of sin sitting in the temple of God showing himself as God is the AOD Jesus said would trigger the GT.

For then then will be Great Tribulation...


Remember, the man of sin, the Lawless one, the antichrist will be alive on earth when Jesus returns, because it is The Lord Jesus who destroys him, by the brightness of His Coming.


Jesus personally destroys the antichrist.

That means Jesus returns after the Great Tribulation.

There would be no Great Tribulation if Jesus destroyed him before the Great tribulation started.


JLB
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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Before the AOD is setup to be worshipped?


Doug
No silly, the gathering of the elect is after the abomination of desolation, and it's also immediately after the tribulation of those days, which will be shortened for the sake of the elect.
 
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Psalm 91

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Psalm 91, Your confidence is misplaced, the Bible tells us an alliance of nations will attack Israel, Psalm 83 and the Lord will destroy them by fire. Paul also tells us of this fire judgement in 2 Thess 1:7-9 an in v10 He will reveal Himself to His believers. This all happens on earth, no rapture mentioned here.
Regarding leaders and teachers, the Bible tells us there will be many false teachers, so we must each check the truth and not rely on ideas and theories that may not have scriptural support. Isaiah 56:9-12, Jer. 14:11-13, 2Tim 4:3-4


I check the Word of God for my truth. :) I think you should read 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 Of course, if you don't believe in the Rapture, you're not going to accept the meaning of this chapter and will try to say it means something else. But the key is when Paul says in verse 1: "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him..."

I was not speaking of the alliance of nations. I don't believe that we are there yet, that is all I was saying. The current conflict has very little to do with Israel. I think there is much to be done before that alliance is formed. I believe we are still experiencing the "birth pains", "wars and rumors of war".

I am not relying on theories, as I have seen MANY on this forum do. I follow the Word of God very literally. However, we are living in a time of many false teachers and I believe that those who teach the Word of God are in His will and He will lead them. Therefore, I don't believe He would let them deceive people if the pre-trib Rapture were not true. Even the early Christians were expecting the Rapture at any time. Those who try to make it a new teaching from the 1800's are not accurate historically. I know that my posts are not really clear sometimes but please know that in spite of how they may read, I am a true follower of the inspired Word of God and I do not deviate. I'm pretty much a Calvinist and a Dispensationalist. I do not follow the belief that after an entire Old Testament which told of the relationship between God and His people that He would suddenly forsake them in the New Testament because they didn't believe in Jesus. They disappointed Him many times in the Old Testament and He did not break His Covenant with them. He is God and He changes not as His Word says. They refused the New Covenant so they live under the Law. They are the ones who have lost out, but He will bring them back. They will see the One whom they crucified, their Messiah.

I have taken many inductive Bible studies and though my memory of details may be a little hazy at times due to my age, I know what I believe.

I came to the Eschatology forum to learn, as I've forgotten a lot by not reading much lately and not discussing endtimes. But I have found so far, a lot of weird ideas and people actually post Scripture to supposedly support their weird ideas. It's not accurate understanding and it's disappointing. There are a few who have a clear knowledge of endtime prophecy and they seem to be spending their time trying to convince the authors of the weird ideas of the truth. God bless them. I have no patience for that because I know from other forums that it's futile. Especially preterists. All we can do is pray for them.
 
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bibletruth469

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Echolipse said:
**Just a thought and looking for opinions**

Ref Matt 24:38 is it possible that Jesus was referring to only when he ends the War of Armegeddon and not about the rapture.

I'm thinking this due to the verse comes at the end of the 7-years.

Comments?

This entire passage, Matt 24:36-44, is about ' no one knows the day or hour'. I am pre- trib, however I believe this passage is referring to the second coming and not the rapture . No one except the Father knows when Christ's exact timing will be at the end of the tribulation . They will see ' the sign' of his coming. Look at Matt 24:29-31. All the people on the earth will see him appear in the sky.

As for the days of Noah as you mentioned in vs 38, the people left on the earth after the terrible judgements of Gods wrath , will try the best that they can to carry on with life. However , they will be taken by surprise when Christ appears back to the earth for their judgement

. Look at 2 thes 8-10" In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of The Lord and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day. This particular passage is about the second coming of Christ back to the earth to judge.

As we read on in Matt 24: 40-43( one taken and the other left ) IMO , this is also not about the rapture , however the judgement that the people left on the earth will face. The one taken will be cast out and the one left will be there to repopulate the 1000 year kingdom. This passage ties together with the sheep and goat judgement which is a parable about the same judgment . Look at Matt 25:31-46.
 
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keras wrote:
Paul also tells us of this fire judgement in 2 Thess 1:7-9

Shame on you for equating a modern Israel event with the general wrath of God mentioned in 2 Thess. That was expected to happen right after the DofJ, as Mt 24 & //s said, unless the Father delayed, which he did. It is very easy to see that the Return was expected extremely soon in the Thess. letters. But there was an allowance in Mt 24 & //s, and it has been that way since.

By general wrath of God, I really mean general as in Rom 1-3. There is nothing but confusion in how futurism tries to find chrono-mechanical details about this wrath instead of the ethical-moral-philosophical statement Paul made and how it framed the Gospel of grace, which is what we are to preach. We are not to "preach" eschatology, though we might need to know a few things. It is not to be a passion.
 
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