Matthew 24 Mount of Olives and Titus' 10th Legion on Mt Olives 70ad

[TribulationSigns]

You do understand Rome led a multinational coalition don't you?

OK, time to shine...

I can see that some people are still holding on to physical city of Jersualem, physical mount of olives, physical armies of Romans, etc.

No, we can only see from comparing Scripture with Scripture that to understand the symbolism we need to recognize that Jerusalem, the holy city and bride of God, is representative of the congregation, the People of God. In the Old Testament, that was the Jews. Zechariah 14 is in reference to their captivity, the apostasy that had gripped that old testament congregation, and this warfare in His congregation - the Body of Christ (Matthew 11:12) that ushers in the Messiah Himself and His messianic peace, comfort and the (millennial) Kingdom age. This time of Christ's first advent is when the Lord defeated the nations/gentiles that came against his people. Not Roman armies, not multinational coalition, not every physical nation in the world, and not at the end times in His second advent, but these nations were defeated by the Lord and by His army in their testimony. That's not rhetoric, but confirmed by Scripture. It was by the shedding of His blood that they were defeated.

Daniel 9:26

• "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

Indeed the people of the Prince were the Jews. They did destroy the city and sanctuary by putting Christ upon the Cross, and consequently the kingdom representative was taken from them and given to another. These were the nations that came against Jerusalem, as Christ this Prince, was delivered to the Gentiles for crucifixion by His own people. This language of delivering to the Gentiles is not coincidental, as it illustrates His people were working as Gentiles against their own Prince. Do you not realize that the Gentiles simply means anyone not a Jew, an alien or foreigner from Israel. Anyone who is not the true Jews or children of God are spiritually Gentiles (Revelation 3:9) and at war in Jerusalem. Doesn't matter if you say you are a Jew by bloodline, you are not one in God's eyes. There was no physical war going on in Jerusalem when Christ came, so why do you think God prophesied Christ's coming to end Jerusalem's warfare (Isiah 40:1-2) then? And to bring comfort to her? These are questions that many teachers ignore because it illustrates vividly that the Lord spoke this way. While they want to keep holding to an idea that understanding ar and city spiritually is of men rather than of God. But the Biblical fact is, she indeed was at war, but not warfare as the world defines it as you guys often tried to do so, but as God's word does. Not by all the literal/physical nations battling against her as the world defines it, but as God does. Two different generations or families, one the messengers and children of Satan and the other the messengers or children of God, at war. Even as Revelation 12 also depicts. The end result was that Christ came to the mount of Olives (signifying the anointed kingdom), came to Jerusalem as King, freed the children held in captivity, in the bondage of Satan and his minions, and judged those who fought against Him. Not in worldly Premillennialists or Preterists terms, but spiritual. As it is written:

Zechariah 12:89

• "In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
• And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
• And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

The only real question is when Christ poured out His Spirit of grace upon the house of David (Obviously at Pentecost), how was Jerusalem under seige by all the nations, and how did God seek to destroy all the nations that came against Jerusalem? When you answer that question honestly, you know that this NEVER spoke of a physical/literal war or nations. The Lord did defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem and did destroy the nations that came up against her and He did pour out His spirit upon the house of David, and they did look upon Him whom they had pierced. Could it be anymore clearer?!? Hello? It is DONE! Christ accomplished this at the cross. And they did mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, as also confirmed yet again in John 19.

John 19:36-37

• "For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
• And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced."

It's not scripture yet to be fulfilled, it's Scripture already fulfilled. We just need to take God's word as authoritative, rather than listen to the self-serving denials of men snared in Premillennial/Judaism/Preterism/Zionism.

The fact that Jesus stood on the Mt. of Olives is confirmed by the fact that the Mount of Olives was split in two from east to west by a Roman road in the first century. And indeed it was and is! The Mt. of Olives was, in fact, split down the middle by a Roman road that formed a valley through the middle of the mountain in the first century.

LOL! So you are saying that God need to use the Roman Road to split the mount? Pathetic. No! God was not talking about physical mount of olive here, but rather it represents His Old testament congregation, his kingdom on earth. The mountain in Scripture signifies kingdom, so what kingdom was it that the Lord causing the fall? Was it not the fall of His Old Testament congregation as a judgment for rejecting Messiah the Prince that He took the kingdom representative from them and gave to another? Stop studying Josephus books and world maps. It is not even a physical event, Selah!

The GOSPEL does all these things. Year round, does it not?... flowing with LIVING WATERS for all who are thirsty to DRINK from.

Rather, it is the Living Waters which is a SPIRIT, the Holy Spirit, not physical water, that was poured on Pentecost.

Do you seriously believe the LIVING WATERS of John 4:14 that began flowing from Jerusalem in the 1st century (and still are flowing today) are FAKE?

I said that it was NOT what God talked about. The Living Water did go to the former sea (Jews) and the Hinder sea (Gentiles) for those who are thirsty. God is painting a spiritual picture here.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi since you like to keep the context of the previous chapters it is interesting to note again that in Zech 12 the LORD destroys those nations who come against Jerusalem. Again this matches Zech 14 that Israel is victorious through the LORD in these days. I do believe and enjoy the promise of the living water through the holy spirit so in some areas we have a good overlap. I see the 1/3 who are left are not those converted from the 1st century but those who come through the tribulation.
Note that for my view to be correct Israel would have to be a sovereign nation and Jerusalem to be a troublesome stone to the whole world. Jerusalem would have to be divided and the temple would have to be coming back to offer sacrifices at a time when global government is coming with a world who's morals would have to rival those of Sodom and the pre-flood world. The church would have to be largely anemic and full of false covetous teachers who have departed from the faith. This is exactly what is the present day condition as the UN has made more resolutions against Israel than all other nations combined. The Jews have prepared the article for the temple services to resume and the covenant with the many will divide the land and Jerusalem.
There are a great many passages such as Ezekiel 36 which are still future and cannot be applied to the church that have not been fulfilled and they make perfect sense and are congruent with the literal view and match the current landscape of geopolitical world.

You do understand Rome led a multinational coalition don't you?

Show us your "good exegesis" of this verse. What does it mean "as He fights in the day of Battle"?
Clearly, this is referencing previous battles of God. This passage is pointing us to previous teaching in scripture for us to go to, in order to uncover the NATURE of how God fought in PREVIOUS days of Battle to this one, so we can recognize it when we see it.
.

Hello parousia. I didn't know that until I watched those 70 AD videos where he described the make up of the Roman army coming against Jerusalem. [I posted 1 below]

I found this on Wiki:

Imperial Roman army - Wikipedia

Under Augustus (ruled 30 BC – 14 AD), the army consisted of legions, eventually auxilia and also numeri.[2]

• Legions were formations numbering about 5,000 heavy infantry recruited from the ranks of Roman citizens only, transformed from earlier mixed conscript and volunteer soldiers serving an average of 10 years, to all-volunteer units of long-term professionals serving a standard 25-year term. (Conscription was only decreed in emergencies.)
• Auxilia were organised into regiments of about 500 strong under Augustus, a tenth the size of legions, recruited from the peregrini or non-citizen inhabitants of the empire who constituted approximately 90 percent of the Empire's population in the 1st century AD. The auxilia provided virtually all the army's cavalry, light infantry, archers and other specialists, in addition to heavy infantry equipped in a similar manner to legionaries.
• Numeri were allied native (or "barbarian") units from outside the Empire who fought alongside the regular forces on a mercenary basis. These were led by their own aristocrats and equipped in traditional fashion. Numbers fluctuated according to circumstances and are largely unknown.

===================================================
Matthew 24:3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, `Tell us, when? shall these be and what? the sign of Thy ParousiaV <3952>,
and of the together-finish<5055> of the Age?'
=======================
I believe the 10 kings in Revelation could be symbolizing the 10 Northern Tribes of divorced Israel who essentially became "Gentiles", another word Non-Jews.
They are shown attacking Jerusalem in Revelation 18:

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Jeremiah 1:15 For behold, I am calling All the families of the Kingdoms of the North,” says the LORD; “They shall come and each one set his throne At the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem, Against all its walls all around, And against all the cities of Judah.

Revelation 17:
12 ‘And the ten Horns which thou saw, are being ten Kings, who a kingdom not as yet receive,
but authority as Kings one hour they are receiving<2983> with the Beast,
16 And the ten Horns which thou saw and the Beast, These shall be hating the harlot, and They shall be making Her desolate and naked, and the fleshes of Her they shall be eating<5315>
and shall be burning Her in fire. 17 For the GOD gives into Their hearts to do the mind of Him, and to do One mind and to give Their kingdom to the Beast until shall be being finished<5055> the words of the GOD.

Revelation 18:
8 Thru this in one day shall be arriving<2240> Her blows, death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be utterly burned, that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her.
19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried, lamenting, weeping and mourning, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships<4143> in the sea, out of Her preciousness<5094>,
for to one hour was She was desolated
============================
Notice how he describes the make up of the Roman Army. His videos should receive oscars.......

....................................

 

[TribulationSigns]

The Olivet Discourse nor Zechariah 14 have any thing at all to do with 70 AD.

You are correct Zechariah 14 has nothing to do with 70AD. But it also does not talk about about a future event. So let me test your understanding of Zechariah 14:12. What did God really talk about here when he said:

Zechariah 14:12 KJV
[12] And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I found this on Wikipedia

LittleLamb...do you realize that Wikipedia is nothing but written from a biased point of view outside Word of God which always attempt to explain something from a secular or particular view. It is not an interpreter of God's Word. We must go with God's interpretation that only can be found and discerned within His Holy Word. NOT Wikipedia, writings of Josephus, Total War Game simulators, CNN News, etc.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLamb...do you realize that Wikipedia is nothing but written from a biased point of view outside Word of God which always attempt to explain something from a secular or particular view. It is not an interpreter of God's Word. We must go with God's interpretation that only can be found and discerned within His Holy Word. NOT Wikipedia, writings of Josephus, Total War Game simulators, CNN News, etc.

Yes, I realize that..................

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

are you trying to equate Rev and Mathew 24 and Zech 14 all to being fulfilled in
70AD?

To whom was that addressed to? You didn't quote the post.
I made no reference to Revelation in my OP..........but I reserve the right to reference it later.......

 

[JLB777]

You are correct Zechariah 14 has nothing to do with 70AD. But it also does not talk about about a future event. So let me test your understanding of Zechariah 14:12. What did God really talk about here when he said:

Zechariah 14:12 KJV
[12] And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Zechariah 14 is about a future event called the Day of the Lord.


Jesus taught His disciples about this in the Olivet Discourse.



Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5


The Day of the Lord is associated with with:


The Resurrection
The Rapture
The destruction of the wicked




JLB

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
I am learning a lot of what was going on during the 1st century Jewish wars in relation to the 70ad Olivet Discourse.
This is concerning Titus standing on the Mount of Olives.

It appears that The Mount of Olives is mentioned in only 1 verse of the entire OT:

The Olivet Discourse nor Zechariah 14 have anything to do with the events of 70 AD.
JLB

TribulationSigns said: ↑
You are correct Zechariah 14 has nothing to do with 70AD. But it also does not talk about about a future event. So let me test your understanding of Zechariah 14:12. What did God really talk about here when he said:

Zechariah 14:12 KJV
[12] And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Interesting post.............

Zechariah 14 is about a future event called the Day of the Lord.
Jesus taught His disciples about this in the Olivet Discourse.

Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,

The Day of the Lord is associated with with:
The Resurrection
The Rapture
The destruction of the wicked
JLB

Yes He did and why I devoted a lot of time harmonizing it.
Now ready to harmonize it with Revelation [Luke's Gospel being the easiest since his is written more for converted Jews and Gentiles]

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:1
And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.

Mark 13:1
And He going forth out of the Temple,
one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings”

Luke 21:5
and of some saying concerning the Temple,
that to goodly stones and votive-offerings it has been adorned

 

[JLB777]

Interesting post.............
Yes He did and why I devoted a lot of time harmonizing it.
Now ready to harmonize it with Revelation [Luke's Gospel being the easiest since his is written more for converted Jews and Gentiles]

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:1
And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.

Mark 13:1
And He going forth out of the Temple,
one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings”

Luke 21:5
and of some saying concerning the Temple,
that to goodly stones and votive-offerings it has been adorned

None of this addresses my point, which is:


The Olivet Discourse, nor Zechariah 14 have anything to do The the events of 70 AD.





JLB

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

None of this addresses my point, which is:

The Olivet Discourse, nor Zechariah 14 have anything to do The the events of 70 AD.

JLB

I disagree.
The Olivet Disourse also has everything to do with Revelation.

Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Revelation 11:2/13:10]

Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints

 

[JLB777]

I disagree.
The Olivet Disourse also has everything to do with Revelation.

Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Revelation 11:2/13:10]

Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints

Go ahead and show me where the events of 70 AD are mentioned in the Olivet Discourse.




JLB

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
I am learning a lot of what was going on during the 1st century Jewish wars in relation to the 70ad Olivet Discourse.
This is concerning Titus standing on the Mount of Olives.

It appears that The Mount of Olives is mentioned in only 1 verse of the entire OT:

JLB777 said: ↑
The Olivet Discourse nor Zechariah 14 have anything to do with the events of 70 AD.
JLB

TribulationSigns said: ↑
You are correct Zechariah 14 has nothing to do with 70AD. But it also does not talk about about a future event. So let me test your understanding of Zechariah 14:12. What did God really talk about here when he said:

Zechariah 14:12 KJV
[12] And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Interesting post.............
Yes He did and why I devoted a lot of time harmonizing it.
Now ready to harmonize it with Revelation [Luke's Gospel being the easiest since his is written more for converted Jews and Gentiles]

JLB777 said: ↑
None of this addresses my point, which is:
The Olivet Discourse, nor Zechariah 14 have anything to do The the events of 70 AD.
JLB

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
I disagree.
The Olivet Disourse also has everything to do with Revelation.
Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10

Go ahead and show me where the events of 70 AD are mentioned in the Olivet Discourse.
JLB

Sure......

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:1
And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.
Mark 13:1
And He going forth out of the Temple,
one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings”
Luke 21
5 and of some saying concerning the Temple
that to goodly stones and votive-offerings it has been adorned

20 Whenever yet ye may be seeing Jerusalem being surrounded <2944> by armies, then be ye knowing that has neared the desolating of Her

Luke 19:
43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee,and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee and shall be encompassing Thee and pressing Thee from-every-side.
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee,
and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely leveled the whole circuit of the City, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings..................

Revelation 14:8
And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great, the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations".

..................................

 

[JLB777]

Sure......

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:1
And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.
Mark 13:1
And He going forth out of the Temple,
one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings”
Luke 21
5 and of some saying concerning the Temple
that to goodly stones and votive-offerings it has been adorned

Nothing here from the Olivet Discourse.


Try again.


The Olivet Discourse was Jesus answering a specific question from His disciples privately, which began here:


Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
Matthew 24:3

The Olivet Discourse is everything from Matthew 24:3 through Matthew 25:46.


Hence the term “Olivet Discourse”, Not “Temple grounds” discourse.



Here is when the armies will surround Jerusalem in the context of His coming and the end of the age.


Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.
Zechariah 14:1-6




JLB

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I did a little studying on the first fall of Jerusalem and the Temple by the King of Babylon n the OT.

Very similar to Vespasian and Titus and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad [which event I also view in Revelation]

2Ki 25:
1 Now it came to pass in the ninth year of his reign, in the tenth month, on the tenth day of the month, that Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon and all his army came against Jerusalem and encamped against it; and they built a siege wall against it all around.
3 By the ninth day of the fourth month the famine had become so severe in the city that there was no food for the people of the land.
Jer 52:
4 Nebuchadnezzar was the king of Babylon. He marched out against Jerusalem. All his armies went with him. It was in the ninth year of the rule of Zedekiah.
It was on the tenth day of the tenth month. The armies set up camp outside the city. They set up ladders and built ramps and towers all around it.
6 By the fourth month, on the ninth day of the month, the famine had become so severe in the city that there was no food for the people of the land.

Very similar to Jerusalem 70ad, the great City showing in Revelation;;;;
===============================================
https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

Josephus mentions Babylon and pestilences in it:

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Wars and rumours of wars," &c. These commotions, like distant thunder, that forebodes the approaching storm, "At first heard solemn o'er the verge of heaven,"
were so frequent from the death of our Lord until the destruction of Jerusalem,that whole interval might, with propriety, appealed to, in illustration of this prophecy. One hundred and fifty of the copious pages of Josephus, which contain the history of this period, are every where stained with blood. To particularize in a few instances : About three years after the death of Christ, a war broke out between Herod and Aretas, king of Arabia Petraea.....................

Mat 24:7
“For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
And there will be famines, pestilences,[fn] and earthquakes in various places.

Luk 21:11
“And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.

About this period a great number, of Jews, on account of a pestilence which raged at Babylon, removed from that city to Se leucia, where the Greeks and Syrians rose against them, and destroyed of this devoted people more than five myriads ! "The extent of this slaughter (says Josephus) had no parallel in any former period of their history." Again, about five years after; this dreadful massacre,
==========================================================
What caused the famine to be more severe just before the Romans sieged the City:
========================
John of Gischala, who headed one of the factions, burnt storehouses full of provisions ; and Simon, his great antagonist, who headed another of them, soon afterwards followed his example. Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength. At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity :- nothing was to be heard but "the confused noise of the warrior, " -- nothing to be seen but garments rolled in blood," -- nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance............................

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover...............

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive. The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen. In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ;................
==================================
Matthew 24:19
“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
Mark 13:17
“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
Luke 21:
22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.

Revelation 6:6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "measure of grain/wheat a denari and three measures of barleys a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".

Revelation 9:6
And in those days the men shall be seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and they shall be desiring/yearning<1937> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.

Revelation 18:8
“Thru this shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and mourning and famine
And in fire She shall be being burned, for strong is the Lord God the One judging Her.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Was Titus and the Roman army destroyed in 70 AD?
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
Zechariah 14:12
Did Titus and the Roman army have their eyes melted from their heads?
The Olivet Discourse nor Zechariah 14 have anything to do with the events of 70 AD.
JLB

The 1st century Jews [and probably some Romans] were melted in the flames of 70ad Jerusalem. Ask the Jews about it...........

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

Ezekiel 22:
1 And there is a word of Yahweh unto me, saying, 2 ‘And thou, son of adam! dost thou judge? dost thou judge the City of blood? then thou hast caused it to know all its abominations,
17 And there is a word of Yahweh unto me, saying, ‘Son of adam!18 The House of Israel hath been to Me for dross, All of them [are] brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, In the midst of a furnace — dross hath silver been,
19 Therefore, thus said Adonay Yahweh: Because of your all becoming dross, Therefore, behold!
I am gathering you unto the midst of Jerusalem,
20 A gathering of silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, Unto the midst of a furnace — to blow on it fire, to melt it, So do I gather in Mine anger and in My fury, And I have let rest, and have melted you.
21 And I have heaped you up, And blown on you in the fire of My wrath<5678>, And ye have been melted<5413> in its midst.
22 As the melting of silver in the midst of a furnace, So are ye melted in its midst, And ye have known that I, Yahweh, I have poured out My fury<2534> upon you.’


Is the "GEHENNA" of Matt 23:33 the "LAKE OF FIRE" in Revelation? Poll thread

Matthew 23:
15 Woe to ye Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! That ye are going about the sea and the dry/xhran <3584> to make one proselyte, and whenever he may be becoming, ye are making him a son of geennhV<1067> twofold-more of ye-selves
Matthew 23:33
33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the gehenna <1067>

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............
Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance.............

Meanwhile the Temple continued burning, until at length, vast as was its size, the flames completely enveloped the, whole building ; which, from the extent of the conflagration, impressed the distant spectator with an idea that the whole city was now on fire. The tumult and disorder which ensued upon this event, it is impossible (says Josephus) for language to describe.

The Roman legions made the most horrid outcries ; the rebels, finding themselves exposed to the fury of both fire and sword, screamed dreadfully ; while the unhappy people who were pent up between the enemy and the flames, deplored their situation in the most pitiable complaints. Those on the hill and those in the city seemed mutually to return the groans of each other. Such as were expiring through famine, were revived by this hideous scene, and seemed to acquire new spirits to deplore their misfortunes. The lamentations from the city wore re-echoed from the adjacent mountains, and places beyond Jordan. The flames which enveloped the Temple were so violent and impetuous, that the lofty hill. on which it stood appeared, even front its deep foundations, as one large body of fire.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The 1st century Jews [and probably some Romans] were melted in the flames of 70ad Jerusalem. Ask the Jews about it...........

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

Oh please! Stop it. JLB777 is correct! The verses you are using has NOTHING to do with events in 70AD.

Zechariah 14:11-12 KJV
[11] And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
[12] And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Please be logic here, will you? Do you claim that the Great City in Revelation 17/18 symbolizing the physical city of Jerusalem in 70AD "as" the Lake of Fire? And that is considered as the "plague" Lord smite upon ALL people that fought against the city of Jerusalem, meaning Titus and Romans, not the Jews? See how flawed your preterist doctrine is when you tried to misapply verses?

And do you have a historical proof that "ALL people who fought against Jerusalem" had their flesh torn away from their bones WHILE THEY STAND UPON THEIR FEET?! Not to mention that their tongues were taking out of their mouths, and their eyes out of its socket. All because of "Fire" in Jerusalem?! Wow!

And notice in verse 11 saying there shall be no more utter destruction, but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. What Jerusalem is this, then? But you are trying to apply Revelation 17/18 as if the city needed to be destroyed forever. Your doctrine does NOT make any sense whatsoever.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Oh please! Stop it. JLB777 is correct! The verses you are using has NOTHING to do with events in 70AD.

You are entitled to your opinion and I am satisfied with mine......
The Jews of today would agree with me IF they would read the Olivet Discourse and Revelation........

2 Corinthians 3:14 but their minds were hardened,
for unto this day the same veil<2571> at the reading of the Old Covenant doth remain unwithdrawn -- which in Christ is being made useless --

G2571 matches the Greek κάλυμμα (kalymma),
which occurs 4 times in 4 verses

Revelation 1:1
An unveiling/revealing of Jesus Christ, which gives to him, the God, to show to the bond-servants of Him which-things is binding to be becoming in swiftness.
And He signifies-it, commissioning thru the messenger of Him, to the bond-servant of Him, John.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The Jews of today would agree with me IF they would read the Olivet Discourse and Revelation...

That is the problem. Why do you only care about what Jews thinks or believe? We should go to God's Word, and what He says matters. He is the authority. Not Jews, Josephus, you or me.

And I can see why you can't really answer the questions I posted for you to explain yourself below:

Please be logic here, will you? Do you claim that the Great City in Revelation 17/18 symbolizing the physical city of Jerusalem in 70AD "as" the Lake of Fire? And that is considered as the "plague" Lord smite upon ALL people that fought against the city of Jerusalem, meaning Titus and Romans, not the Jews? See how flawed your preterist doctrine is when you tried to misapply verses?

And do you have a historical proof that "ALL people who fought against Jerusalem" had their flesh torn away from their bones WHILE THEY STAND UPON THEIR FEET?! Not to mention that their tongues were taking out of their mouths, and their eyes out of its socket. All because of "Fire" in Jerusalem?! Wow!

And notice in verse 11 saying there shall be no more utter destruction, but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. What Jerusalem is this, then? But you are trying to apply Revelation 17/18 as if the city needed to be destroyed forever. Your doctrine does NOT make any sense whatsoever.

And instead of a response to my honest questions, the best you can say is, "You are entitled to your opinion and I am satisfied with mine." This proves that you are avoiding to answer to defend your doctrine.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Now back to the topic of the Mount of Olives discourse and Titus standing on it in 70ad...

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

Matthew 23:33
33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the gehenna <1067>
37 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
38 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate<2048>
Luke 13:
34 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
35 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate<2048>,
-----------------------
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............
Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance.............

Meanwhile the Temple continued burning, until at length, vast as was its size, the flames completely enveloped the, whole building ; which, from the extent of the conflagration, impressed the distant spectator with an idea that the whole city was now on fire. The tumult and disorder which ensued upon this event, it is impossible (says Josephus) for language to describe.

The Roman legions made the most horrid outcries ; the rebels, finding themselves exposed to the fury of both fire and sword, screamed dreadfully ; while the unhappy people who were pent up between the enemy and the flames, deplored their situation in the most pitiable complaints. Those on the hill and those in the city seemed mutually to return the groans of each other. Such as were expiring through famine, were revived by this hideous scene, and seemed to acquire new spirits to deplore their misfortunes. The lamentations from the city wore re-echoed from the adjacent mountains, and places beyond Jordan. The flames which enveloped the Temple were so violent and impetuous, that the lofty hill. on which it stood appeared, even front its deep foundations, as one large body of fire.[/QUOTE]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I can see that some people are still holding on to physical city of Jersualem, physical mount of olives, physical armies of Romans, etc.
.

1st century Jerusalem was a literal City, the Temple and Sanctuary literal building.

Matthew 24:1
And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.
Mark 13:1
And He going forth out of the Temple,
one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings”
Luke 21:5
and of some saying concerning the Temple,
that to goodly stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned<2885>

Matthew 24:2
And Jesus said to them, “ are ye not seeing all these?
Amen I am saying to ye,
not no may be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>.”

Mark 13:2
And Jesus answering said to him, “thou are beholding these, the great buildings.
Not no may be being left here stone upon stone which not no may be being thrown-down<2647>

Luke 21:6
“These which ye are beholding.
Shall be coming days in which not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>
[Luke 19:44]
========================================
Revelation 14:8
And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great,
the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations".

Rev 16:19
Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell.
And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.