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Featured Matthew 24 Mount of Olives and Titus's 10th Legion on Mt Olives 70ad

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by LittleLambofJesus, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    I am learning a lot of what was going on during the 1st century Jewish wars in relation to the 70ad Olivet Discourse.
    This is concerning Titus standing on the Mount of Olives.

    It appears that The Mount of Olives is mentioned in only 1 verse of the entire OT:

    Zechariah 14:4
    And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

    map of mount of olives.JPG

    ========================================
    First, the verses from the MoO narrative:

    Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

    Matthew 24
    1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
    3 Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying.............
    6 “Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and hearings of battles...but not as yet the End<5056>

    Mark 13

    1 And He going forth out of the Temple,
    3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives overlooking the Temple,
    7 “Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and hearings of battles, .....but not as yet the End<5056>

    Luke 21

    5 and of some saying concerning the Temple,
    9 “Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tumults<181>, no may be being frightened<4422>, for is binding these to be becoming,
    but not immediately the End<5056>
    =========================================
    Just a little bit of what was happening up to the 70ad destruction of Jerusalem. This site as a plethora of maps and pictures portraying the action going on back then........
    =============================
    https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html

    MARCH, A.D. 66 - JERUSALEM
    The Final Days of the Jewish Commonwealth ; Anarchy Erupts, and the Christians Flee

    Numerous signs, prodigies, and portents are seen in the land of Judaea at the outset of the rebellion. Included in those recorded by Josephus, armed hosts and chariots in the clouds are seen flying over all the land of Judaea; a light at night makes the temple appear as though it were on fire; Halley's Comet, in the appearance of a sword, flies over the region. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory says that the closest approach of the comet that year was in March, immediately prior to the revolt.

    Christians seem to have associated this period with the warnings and admonitions of Jesus Christ in Matthew 24, because after the withdrawal of Gallus and the Battle of Beth-horon, a great number of people flee the city of Jerusalem, led by the Mother Church, which headed east over the Jordan River to safety in the area of Pella, Jordan.
    Early Christian settlements sprung up all over the Roman Decapolis Scythopolis [Bet She'an], Hippos [Susieh], Gadara [Umm Qais], Pella [Tabaqat Fahl], Philadelphia [Amman], Gerasa [Jerash], Dion [Adun], Kanatha [Kanawat], Damascus, and Raphana [Abila] . Today this region is within the Kingdom of Jordan and the Golan Heights. During the flight out of Palestine, a number of documents were apparently hidden in the Dead Sea area along the route -- DSS Caves 4 and 7-10 are of particular interest.
    ==============================
    MAY, A.D. 66 - JERUSALEM
    Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66

    The Factions in Jerusalem During the Roman Siege

    The Roman Procurator Florus demands 17 talents from the Jewish Temple treasury. This is the triggering insult for the Jews to begin their revolt. The Roman garrison in Jerusalem is overrun by rebels, who take control of the city. The rebels cause cessation of all sacrifices to the Roman Emperor, thus challenging Rome head-on
    Florus cannot handle the situation, so the (Roman) Syrian Governor, Cestius Gallus, is called in to subdue the rebellion. He attacks Jerusalem, gets up to the walls of the city, then unexpectedly withdraws, suffering heavy losses in retreat.
    ==============================
    A.D. 66-69 - GALILEE
    PROGRESS OF THE LEGIONS UNDER VESPASIAN

    After the humiliation of Gallus -- who subsequently died (some said of shame) -- Nero commands General Vespasian (Titus Flavius Vespasianus) to take over command of the Jewish War.
    While civil war rages in Jerusalem, Vespasian decides to give time for the infighting in the city to weaken the Jewish defense against his armies. He then proceeds to subdue Galilee with the aid of his son Titus. After a number of sieges and clashes, he succeeds in calming northern Judaea
    JOSEPHUS CAPTURED IN THE SIEGE OF JOTAPATA
    Jewish General Josephus in captured in siege of Jotapata. After a short imprisonment, he serves the Roman field marshals until the completion of the war. After the war, Josephus is adopted into the Flavian family, and he writes the definitive history of the Roman-Jewish War
    =====================================
    "THE YEAR OF THE FOUR EMPERORS"
    Four emperors possess the ultimate world power in Rome in quick succession during this unsettled period. The first is Nero (Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus), who ends the reign of the Julio-Claudian dynasty by committing suicide on June 9th, 68.
    His last words were "Qualis artifex Pereo" which is translated "what an artist dies in me"

    General Galba in Spain declares himself emperor while Nero is still alive, and takes power upon his arrival in Rome.
    In January, 69, Galba is murdered by Otho who proclaims himself emperor.
    On April 15th, Otho commits suicide and his rival, Vitellius becomes emperor. In June, Vespasian resumes operations in Judea.
    In July, Vespasian is proclaimed emperor by the army. He transfers command of the Jewish war to his son Titus and heads for Rome. On December 20th, 69, Vitellius is beheaded in Rome and Vespasian is installed as emperor there.
    =================================================
    A.D. 70 - JERUSALEM
    TITUS TAKES OVER WAR AND HEADS STRAIGHT TO JERUSALEM

    They will take away your turban and remove your crown; everything will be changed; the low will be high and the high brought low. To ruin, and to ruin on ruin, am I going to bring it, to such ruin as was never known before this man came who is appointed to inflict the punishment which I am determined to impose on it." (Ez.21:23-27).

    With Vespasian taking over the government of the Roman Empire, his son Titus Flavius Vespasianus (AD 9-79; Joint Emperor AD 69-79 ; Sole Emperor 79-81) takes over as field marshal of the Roman forces opposing the Jewish revolt. Titus and Tiberius Alexander, Prefect of Egypt, march to Caesarea from Alexandria, bringing with them reinforcements from the 18th and 3rd Augusta Legions. The 12th Legion marched down from Syria, and three thousand legionaries of the 23rd and/or 24th Legions marched west from the Euphrates. In April, 70, Titus led the 12th and 15th Legions and the 3rd Augusta and 18th Legion cohorts out of Caesarea towards Jerusalem. Upon arriving, he encamped on Mount Scopus, north of the city.
    ===============================
    APRIL, A.D. 70 - PHASE ONE
    THE ROMAN ARMY ARRIVES AT JERUSALEM TO PREPARE THE SIEGE

    The first night of Titus' encampment with the 15th, 3rd and 18th Legions, the 5th Legion arrived from Emmaus and set camp north of the city on Mount Scopus.
    Later the next day, the famed 10th Legion (founded by Julius Caesar) marched in from Jericho and camped on the Mount of Olives, east of the city.
    Instead of waiting to starve the Jews into submission, Titus decides to assault many different parts of the city and overwhelm the defenders. Titus was early on in the middle of the fighting with his soldiers. At least two times, Titus and his detachment are surrounded by defenders, only to escape unharmed.


    ‘Admirable as were the engines constructed by all the legions, those of the tenth were of peculiar excellence. Their scorpions were of greater power and their stone-projectors larger, and with these they not only kept in check the sallying parties, but those also on the ramparts. The stones that were thrown were of the weight of a talent, and had a range of two furlongs and more. The shock, not only to such as first met it, but even to those beyond them for a considerable distance, was irresistible. The Jews, however, at the first, could guard against the stone; for its approach was intimated, not only to the ear by its whiz, but also, being white, to the eye by its brightness. Accordingly they had watchmen posted on the towers, who gave warning when the engine was discharged and the stone projected, calling out in their native language, "The son is coming," on which those towards whom it was directed would separate, and lie down before it reached them. Thus it happened that, owing to these precautions, the stone fell harmless. It then occurred to the Romans to blacken it; when, taking a more successful aim, as it was no longer equally discernible in its approach, they swept down many at a single discharge.’ Josephus, Jewish Wars, bk. v. chap. vi. 3.
    ================================
    .......................................
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  2. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    Siege of Jerusalem, Just like Great Controversy - Chapter 1 - https://www.thedesireofagesproject....pter_1_-_myers_media_-_with_sound_effects.mp3

    Whole book here - FREE GC Audio Book

    Also see another mention of Mt of Olives:

    2Sa_15:30 And David went up by the ascent of mount Olivet, and wept as he went up, and had his head covered, and he went barefoot: and all the people that was with him covered every man his head, and they went up, weeping as they went up.

    Eze_11:23 And the glory of the LORD went up from the midst of the city, and stood upon the mountain which is on the east side of the city.
     
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  3. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    are you trying to equate Rev and Mathew 24 and Zech 14 all to being fulfilled in
    70AD?
     
  4. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    It is inconceivable that the disciples who witnessed those events would have understood the unfolding of them before their eyes as anything BUT their fulfillment.
     
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  5. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    in Zech 14 if you take the time to detail and note all that is to happen on that day we see that 70AD does not fit. In zech 14 the day the LORD comes with His saints and is king over all the earth Jerusalem is being overrun and the women ravished but the LORD fights on that day and kills off those who are invading it. The LORD is then king over all the earth and the Mt of Olives is said to split in two forming a new valley and a new river that flows year round. The nations from that time on will need to keep the feast of Tabernacles or they get no rain; again this shows a continuation of life after the LORD comes and is king over all the earth. Do you really think this is 70AD? or a day future? If you look at Zech 14 we see that in that day they will also say the LORD is one. I find this not to be speaking of the old Jewish concept of being 1 God but a new understanding that Jesus and the Father are the same God. As it is Jesus who has come.
    The Holy Spirit spoke through Zacharias in Luke 1 and spoke of Jesus and what He would do.
    67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:
    68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
    For He has visited and redeemed His people,
    69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
    In the house of His servant David,
    70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
    Who have been since the world began,
    71 That we should be saved from our enemies
    And from the hand of all who hate us,
    72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
    And to remember His holy covenant,
    73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
    74 To grant us that we,
    Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
    Might serve Him without fear,
    75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.

    Zech 14 shows this kind of deliverance promised in Luke. The Jews on this day will have their Joseph moment and recognize Jesus as the Messiah and God. From that point on they will worship and serve without fear and in holiness all the days of their lives.
     
  6. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Jesus IS King over all the earth. (Matthew 28:18)

    At Sinai, when God delivered the tablets to Moses, He came with ten thousands of His saints:
    And he said: “The Lord came from Sinai, And dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran, And He came with ten thousands of saints; From His right hand Came a fiery law for them.(Deuteronomy 33:2)

    How come none of the people saw those ten thousands of God's saints? Surely 10,000's of saints descending from Heaven upon Mt Sinai would be visible for miles around, no?

    Where is the independent historical confirmation of this monumental event that would have been visible to anyone with eyes for miles and miles around?

    THOUSANDS of Jews Accepted and followed their Messiah in the first century... it is demonstrably false to claim the Jews Rejected Him... many did, but the prophesied Believing remnant, through whom true Israel continued, fully accepted Him.
    And God DID fight against those who fought against THAT REMNANT, WHICH IS TRUE ISRAEL.
    As Prophesied, the Lord of the Vineyard did indeed come to them and was the stone that ground them to powder (Matthew 21:40-45)

    Also, let's look at Zechariah 14:8

    And it shall come to pass in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the eastern sea, and half of them toward the western sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

    Are those living waters not a present reality today?:

    "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” John 7:38

    I'm not still waiting for the fulfillment of that Which Christ already has fulfilled for us, are you?

    Have you not drank from those Living Waters?
    I have, and I thirst for them no more. John 4:14

    The "That day" of Zechariah 14, according to Christ Himself, arrived during His earthly ministry.. Any interpretation of Zechariah 14 that disregards this Biblical fact must be rejected by the Honest Bible expositor.

    The Living Waters of Zechariah 14:8 are a present FULFILLED reality. It is not some pie in the sky future thing/event we are still waiting for.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  7. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Luke's Gospel appears to give more detail of the pending instruction of Jerusalem in Luke 19.
    Most scholars agree that Luke 21 is 70ad and most partial preterists agree that at least the first 2/3rds of the OD is fulfilled. Some believe Matt 24 and Luk 21 are different timing events.

    However, most scholars agree that Luke 21 is 70ad and that his gospel was written more towards a non-Jewish audience [and why I believe His Gospel harmonizes easier with
    Revelation]

    Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
    =======================================
    Let us now proceed to delve further into the Mount of Olives Discourse.

    Matt 23 and Luk 13 both use the exact same prophecy concerning the pending destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad. [Luke's Gospel appears to give more detail of it in Luke 19].

    Matthew 23:

    37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
    38 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate<2048>
    Luke 13:
    34 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
    35 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate<2048>,

    Luke 21:
    20 Whenever yet ye may be seeing Jerusalem being surrounded <2944> by armies, then be ye knowing that has neared the desolating<2050> of Her
    21then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing into the mountains;..............
    22 That days of vengeance these are, of the to be fulfilled<4130> all the having been written

    Luke 19
    41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments on Her, 42 saying, "that if Thou knew and Thou, even indeed in this day, the toward peace of Thee, now yet it was hid from Thy eyes.
    43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee, [Revelation 18:8]
    and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee
    and shall be encompassing< 4033> Thee a,
    and pressing Thee from-every-side.
    44 And shall be leveling Thee
    and Thy offspring in Thee.
    And not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
    stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation of Thee".
    =============================
    I believe this one day is the day of the Passover when Titus sieged Jerusalem

    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

    THE DAY on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover


    Revelation 18:8
    Thru this in ONE DAY shall be arriving<2240> Her blows, death and sorrow and famine. [Luke 19:43]
    ================================
    I believe Ezekiel 22 is showing that 70ad Passover gathering of the Jews into Jerusalem......
    What better way to gather them than on the Day of the Lord's Passover sacrifice.

    Ezekiel 22:
    1 And there is a word of Yahweh unto me, saying, 2 ‘And thou, son of adam! dost thou judge? dost thou judge the City of blood? then thou hast caused it to know all its abominations,
    17 And there is a word of Yahweh unto me, saying, ‘Son of adam!
    18 The House of Israel hath been to Me for dross, All of them [are] brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, In the midst of a furnace — dross hath silver been,
    19 Therefore, thus said Adonay Yahweh: Because of your all becoming dross, Therefore, behold!
    I am gathering you unto the midst of Jerusalem,
    20 A gathering of silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, Unto the midst of a furnace — to blow on it fire, to melt it, So do I gather in Mine anger and in My fury, And I have let rest, and have melted you.21 And I have heaped you up, And blown on you in the fire of My wrath<5678>, And ye have been melted<5413> in its midst.
    22 As the melting of silver in the midst of a furnace, So are ye melted in its midst, And ye have known that I, Yahweh, I have poured out My fury<2534> upon you.’
    =================================
    https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
    "..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
    ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM


    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

    THE DAY on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover
    the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance
    ; and, according to Josephus this event took place suddenly ; thus, not only fulfilling the predictions of our LORD, that these calamities should come, like the swift-darting lightning" that cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the West," and " as a snare on all of them (the Jews) who dwelt upon the face of the whole earth ".................

    Finding it impossible to restrain the impetuosity and cruelty of his soldiers, the Commander in chief proceeded, with some of his superior officers, to take a survey of those parts of the edifice which were still uninjured by the conflagration. It had not, at this time, reached the inner Temple, which Titus entered, and viewed with silent admiration. Struck with the magnificence of its architecture, and the beauty of its decorations, which even surpassed the report of fame concerning them ; and perceiving that the sanctuary had not yet caught fire, he redoubled his efforts to stop the progress of the flames................................

    The tumult and disorder which ensued upon this event, it is impossible (says Josephus) for language to describe. The Roman legions made the most horrid outcries ; the rebels, finding themselves exposed to the fury of both fire and sword, screamed dreadfully ; while the unhappy people who were pent up between the enemy and the flames, deplored their situation in the most pitiable complaints. Those on the hill and those in the city seemed mutually to return the groans of each other.
    Such as were expiring through famine, were revived by this hideous scene, and seemed to acquire new spirits to deplore their misfortunes. The lamentations from the city wore re-echoed from the adjacent mountains, and places beyond Jordan.
    The flames which enveloped the Temple were so violent and impetuous, that the lofty hill on which it stood appeared, even front its deep foundations, as one large body of fire.

    Amongst the tragical events which at this time occured, the following is more particularly deserving of notice : a false prophet, pretending to a divine commission, affirmed that, if the people would repair to the Temple, they should behold signs of their speedy deliverance. Accordingly about six thousand persons, chiefly women and children, assembled in a gallery, that was yet standing, on the outside of the building. Whilst they waited in anxious expectation of the promised miracle, the Romans with the most wanton barbarity, set fire to the gallery ; from which, multitudes; rendered frantic by their horrible situation, precipitated themselves on the ruins below, and were killed by the fall
    ====================================
    Revelation 18:8
    8 Thru this in ONE DAY shall be arriving<2240> Her blows, death and sorrow and famine. [Luke 19:43]
    And in fire She shall be utterly burned<2618>, that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her.
    18 and they cried<2896>, observing the smoke of Her firing<4451>, saying,
    "What like to the great City?"

    ...................
    ...................
    ...................
     
  8. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    =================================
    Some interesting history on Titus and the 10th Legion that encamped on Mt Olives.

    Titus - Wikipedia

    Titus (/ˈtaɪtəs/; Latin: Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus;[a] 30 December 39 AD – 13 September 81 AD) was Roman emperor from 79 to 81. A member of the Flavian dynasty, Titus succeeded his father Vespasian upon his death, thus becoming the first Roman emperor to come to the throne after his own biological father.

    Before becoming emperor, Titus gained renown as a military commander, serving under his father in Judea during the First Jewish–Roman War. The campaign came to a brief halt with the death of emperor Nero in 68, launching Vespasian's bid for the imperial power during the Year of the Four Emperors. When Vespasian was declared Emperor on 1 July 69, Titus was left in charge of ending the Jewish rebellion. In 70, he besieged and captured Jerusalem, and destroyed the city and the Second Temple. For this achievement Titus was awarded a triumph; the Arch of Titus commemorates his victory to this day.
    ============================================
    Legio X Fretensis - Wikipedia

    Legio X Fretensis ("Tenth legion of the Strait") was a legion of the Imperial Roman army. It was founded by the young Gaius Octavius (later to become Augustus Caesar) in 41/40 BC to fight during the period of civil war that started the dissolution of the Roman Republic. X Fretensis is then recorded to have existed at least until the 410s.

    X Fretensis symbols were the bull — the holy animal of the goddess Venus (mythical ancestor of the gens Julia) — a ship (probably a reference to the Battles of Naulochus and/or Actium), the god Neptune, and a boar. The symbol of Taurus may also mean that it was organized between 20 April and 20 May.

    Active 41 BC to after 410
    Country Roman Empire
    Type Roman legion (Marian)
    Garrison/HQ Judaea (20s BC)
    Syria (c. 6-66)
    Jerusalem (ca. 73-late 3rd century)
    Aila (late 3rd century-after 410s)
    Nickname(s) Fretensis, "of the sea strait"
    Mascot(s) Bull, ship, Neptune, boar
    Engagements Battle of Naulochus (36 BC)
    Battle of Actium (31 BC)
    Corbulo Parthian campaign
    First Jewish-Roman War (66–73)
    Siege of Masada (72-73)
    Trajan Parthian campaign
    Bar Kokhba's revolt (132-135)

    ========================================

    During the spring of 71, Titus set sail for Rome. A new military governor was then appointed from Rome, Lucilius Bassus, whose assigned task was to undertake the "mopping-up" operations in Judaea. Naturally, he used X Fretensis to oppose the few remaining fortresses that still resisted. As part of this, X Fretensis took Herodium, and then crossed the Jordan to capture the fortress of Machaerus on the shore of the Dead Sea. Due to illness, Bassus did not live to complete his mission. Lucius Flavius Silva replaced him, and moved against the last Jewish stronghold, Masada, probably in the autumn of 72. He used Legio X, auxiliary troops, and thousands of Jewish prisoners. After his orders for surrender were rejected, Silva established several base camps and a wall of circumvallation completely around the fortress. When the Romans finally broke through the walls of this citadel, they discovered that the Jewish defenders had chosen death with a mass suicide.
    ===============================================
    This vid of Masada is from the same person who made the awesome 70ad Jerusalem vids.

    ..........................

    Nah 3:1
    1 Woe to the city of blood, full of lies, full of plunder, never without victims!
    4 all because of the wanton lust of a prostitute, alluring, the mistress of sorceries, who enslaved nations by her prostitution and peoples by her witchcraft.
    5 “I am against you,” declares the LORD Almighty. “I will lift your skirts over your face. I will show the nations your nakedness and the kingdoms your shame.
    12 All your fortresses are like fig trees with their first ripe fruit; when they are shaken, the figs fall into the mouth of the eater.

    Luke 21:
    29 And He told a parable to them.
    Be seeing the fig-tree and all the trees,
    30 whenever they should be budding<4261> already observing from yourselves
    ye are knowing thru that already nigh the summer is.
    31 “So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.

    Rev 6
    13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.
    15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders,[fn] the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
    16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
    17 “For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
     
  9. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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  10. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    You have made your conclusions a bit hastily and not with real good exegeses. The LORD has always been the fountain of living water as Jer 3 said that the Jews had forsaken the LORD the fountain of living waters for broken cisterns that can hold no water. In Zech 14 if we note all the specifics and compare with 70 AD it does not match. The 1st couple verses describe the battle on the day of the LORD.

    Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
    And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
    2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
    The city shall be taken,
    The houses rifled,
    And the women ravished.
    Half of the city shall go into captivity,
    But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city

    Verse 2 all the nations are gathered not just Rome. The city is taken and half goes into captivity.

    verse 3
    Then the LORD will go forth
    And fight against those nations,
    As He fights in the day of battle.

    He is fighting against those who have over taken Jerusalem.

    Verse 4 5
    And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
    Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
    And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
    From east to west,
    Making a very large valley;
    Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
    And half of it toward the south.
    5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
    For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
    Yes, you shall flee
    As you fled from the earthquake
    In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

    The mount of Olives splits in two creating a new valley one that will be used as an escape route for those in Jerusalem. It even references the days of Uzziah as a previous similar incident. This can only be talking about the Jews. This valley has specific directions as to how it will split as well.

    Signs in the day and night.

    Thus the LORD my God will come,
    And all the saints with You.[fn]
    6 It shall come to pass in that day
    That there will be no light;
    The lights will diminish.
    7 It shall be one day
    Which is known to the LORD—
    Neither day nor night.
    But at evening time it shall happen
    That it will be light.

    The day this happens strange things with the sun and moon will occur.

    The LORD comes and look what happens.

    And in that day it shall be
    That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
    Half of them toward the eastern sea
    And half of them toward the western sea;
    In both summer and winter it shall occur.
    9 And the LORD shall be King over all the earth.
    In that day it shall be—
    “The LORD is one,”[fn]
    And His name one.
    10 All the land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. Jerusalem[fn] shall be raised up and inhabited in her place from Benjamin’s Gate to the place of the First Gate and the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses.
    11 The people shall dwell in it;
    And no longer shall there be utter destruction,
    But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

    OK this portion is at serious contradiction with 70AD. The living waters that flow are giving directions to flow with end destinations and promised to flow year round. in verse 10 a 3rd topographical change is noted. A new plan from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem shall be raised and inhabited with the specific gates mentioned. People will dwell there and no longer utter destruction but Jerusalem safely inhabited... This is matching very well with the Luke 1 prophecy I quoted in my 1st post that Israel is delivered from their enemies and will worship and serve without fear and in holiness all of their days. In 70AD they got wiped out. the Mt of Olives did not split this valley did not form. It was not dark at day and bright at night. The promise of being safely inhabited did not occur.

    12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
    Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
    Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
    And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
    13 It shall come to pass in that day
    That a great panic from the LORD will be among them.
    Everyone will seize the hand of his neighbor,
    And raise his hand against his neighbor’s hand;
    14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem.
    And the wealth of all the surrounding nations
    Shall be gathered together:
    Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance.

    The outcome of this battle is total destruction of those who come against Jerusalem. The graphic detail of how they die is proof that on the day the LORD comes he wipes out not Israel but saves them. The wealth of the surrounding nations will be gathered and this matches verse one which said the spoil will be divided in their midst. Does this have anything to do with 70AD?

    After this day is over what happens next?

    16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
    20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the LORD’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the LORD of hosts.[fn] Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

    All the nations that are left...this shows who won this battle and many nations wont be left. These nations must keep the feast of tabernacles in Jerusalem or they get no rain. This is all literal and really going to happen. If you look at Rev and think about Armageddon this fits right here. The last line is a bit curious as there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD. The command to utterly destroy those nations and take possession of the promised land is now fulfilled by the LORD as Israel never did it and now it is complete.

    I have taken this text and believe what it says is going to happen. We agree on a great many things such as being under the new covenant and Jesus having all authority. But really man if Jesus is reigning the wold is as corrupt as it has ever been. This world is not under His authority and will be one day soon.
     
  11. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Agreed. My KJV reads:

    Zechariah 14:8-9 KJV
    [8] And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
    [9] And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

    I am not going to write a commentary on Zechariah 14 tonight. It is about the FIRST advent of Christ, not the second coming as most belief. The former sea represents the Old Testament. The hinder sea represents the New Testament. The living waters is the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit that saves. it went out of Jerusalem where Christ died at the Cross, to cover God's Elect of Old and New Testament where Christ is their King. This has nothing to do with literal Jersuaelm, the landscapes where water may flow, etc.

    Quite incorrect. The feast of tabernacles took place since the Cross that covers the whole New Testament period where God's Elect, including us, can come up to the mountain (kingdom) of God to worship Christ in spirit and truth! Not coming up upon mountain physically every year. While the families of Egypt representing those who have not yet saved where they will not be blessed or saved with Holy Spirit (Remember, the Holy Spirit as the Living Water that comes out of Jerusalem?) And I am sorry but Zechariah says NOT one word about sacrifices being instituted again. That may be man's interpretation of Zechariah chapter 14, but it most certainly doesn't say that. Let read a bit further in Zechariah 14:

    Zechariah 14:19-21
    • "This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
    • In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
    • Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts."
    Tell me... when have/are/will all nations ever come to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles? Of course, the answer is when Christ bound Satan, that he will NOT deceive the nations to prevent them from coming to Jerusalem. And they who are being saved could come to be part of the Holy City just as the Jews in the Old Testament as an example or type! Not something we have to do again physically in the future! We are already going up into Jerusalem IN CHRIST! It's a done deal, not will be a done deal in the future like you believe. You need to compare it with the rest of Scripture to verify:

    Mic 4:1-3
    • "But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
    • And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem
    • And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
    Has Christ brought this peace to the nations, and are the nations now at peace with God that they have beaten their swords into plowshares? Not literally. But symbolically that we no longer fight God before we were saved, but now working in the field to spread Gospel to reap Elects on God's behalf! This is what swords into plowshares signify! That is what is in the picture! So no, Sorry, no, God did NOT as geography defines Jerusalem, but as God does.

    Zechariah 8:22-23
    • "Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
    • Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."
    Were not the nations, the Gentile branches, already grafted into the Israel Covenant, signified by the Olive Tree? See.. it is NOT about future. It is symbolic language illustrating just when the Gentiles (nations) were set free from Satan's bondage to come up to Jerusalem.

    Revelation 20:2-3
    • "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    • And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."
    Selah!
     
  12. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    the scriptures say no prophecy is of any private interpretation and not to be led into every wind of doctrine. I have met many who have taken a literal approach to the prophecies where they seem to be speaking literally and it is remarkable that we can come to the same conclusions by studying the same text. Where did the symbol key you adhere to come from? Where is the scripture noting which seas represent the new and old testament? The idea that the LORD is king over the earth in not supported by the reality of the rampant evil of the world under his rule. Dan 2 and 7 both say when the kingdom comes that it will cover the earth and Dan 7 says every tribe tongue and nation will be under this ruler.

    Dan 7
    11 “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.
    13 “I was watching in the night visions,
    And behold, One like the Son of Man,
    Coming with the clouds of heaven!
    He came to the Ancient of Days,
    And they brought Him near before Him.
    14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
    That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
    His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
    Which shall not pass away,
    And His kingdom the one
    Which shall not be destroyed.

    If Jesus has taken over as king every tribe tongue and nation would be serving him. The idea that 70AD is Rev fulfilled would have to relegate these passages to the past. It seems clear that the kingdom does not come until the pompous one is destroyed by the 2nd coming and this kingdom is global and has no end. Does the world now reflect the righteousness that Christ reigning would bring in? or does it look like antichrist is rising and tribulation is coming?
     
  13. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And by the Word of God, they are incorrect! :)

    The former sea and the hinder sea. Do you really understand these? God was not talking about the Dead Sea and the Mediterranean sea here. Try to learn how to compare Scripture with Scripture and see what God is really talking about here:

    The first thing that we must understand is that Zech. 14 is a continuation of the previous two chapters, so it is necessary to read 12-14 all together to get the full context of the prophecy. The following passages from each of these three chapters let us know without a doubt what time period is in view for the entire prophecy:

    Zechariah 12:10 KJV
    [10] And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    Zechariah 13:1-2 KJV
    [1] In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
    [2] And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

    Zechariah 14:8-9 KJV
    [8] And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
    [9] And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

    All three of these passages are talking about the exact same event - the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. And the spiritual pictures that God paints for us all throughout His word to demonstrate this are absolutely amazing. Still doubt?

    Exodus 17:5-6 KJV
    [5] And the LORD said unto Moses, Go on before the people, and take with thee of the elders of Israel; and thy rod, wherewith thou smotest the river, take in thine hand, and go.
    [6] Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.

    1 Corinthians 10:1-4 KJV
    [1] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
    [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
    [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
    [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    John 4:10 KJV
    [10] Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

    John 4:14 KJV
    [14] But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

    So pay attention to the following verses:

    John 7:37-39 KJV
    [37] In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
    [38] He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
    [39] (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

    See. Christ is the rock that had to be smitten (at the Cross) so that the Living water could flow? Hello? The living water is the Holy Spirit that was poured out on the day of Pentecost after Christ has been glorified, didn't He? Notice that John 7:39 says that "the Holy Ghost was NOT yet given; BECAUSE that Jesus was NOT yet glorified." Jesus had to be glorified (the rock had to be smitten FIRST), in order for the Holy Spirit to be given (the living water begins to flow). This already happened at the Cross/Pentecost. This is "the spirit of grace and of supplications." Not a physical water like you thought which was poured upon the house of David in Zechariah 12:10. This is the "foundation opened to the house of David." in Zechariah 13:1; this is the "living waters" flowing out from Jersualem where Christ was smitten in Zechariah 14:8. Didn't you realize that Jersualem represents Christ whic his what "washing of regeneration" that took away the sins and iniquity of the Spiritual Israel of God. Not national Israel! As it is written:

    Titus 3:4-7 KJV
    [4] But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
    [5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    [6] Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
    [7] That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    Well, this living water obviously speaks of purification of God's people who are cleansed by the blood of the Lamb and the washing of water through the Holy Spirit. Therefore, we are not saved unless the Living Water has come out of Jerusalem FIRST when Christ was smitten. It is spiritual discernment, not something you look for literal fulfillment, sorry to disappoint you.

    Two things. First, you got all timing wrong. Second, you are looking for some literal or physical nations, empire, kingdom, water, war, famines, etc. for fulfillment when you totally miss what God was actually talking about. God do not need to make room within "rampant evil of the world" to fulfill His Kingdom. Remember, Jesus said that His Kingdom is not of this world. Read John 18:36 yourself. You got wrong idea about "kingdom" and "peace" how it should look like on earth. No, our peace is with God through the blood of Christ, not world peace on Earth.

    First, forget 70AD doctrine. Its false doctrine. Second, the living water of Zechariah 14 has nothing to do with Daniel 7's beasts and the little horn because the living water has everything to do with Christ's Cross and Pentecost - not for the world, but for God's Elect whom He seals (saves). Beside, the beast and little horn are not who you thought they are, just like you did not understand what and when the Living Water took place.
     
  14. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    Hi since you like to keep the context of the previous chapters it is interesting to note again that in Zech 12 the LORD destroys those nations who come against Jerusalem. Again this matches Zech 14 that Israel is victorious through the LORD in these days. I do believe and enjoy the promise of the living water through the holy spirit so in some areas we have a good overlap. I see the 1/3 who are left are not those converted from the 1st century but those who come through the tribulation.
    Note that for my view to be correct Israel would have to be a sovereign nation and Jerusalem to be a troublesome stone to the whole world. Jerusalem would have to be divided and the temple would have to be coming back to offer sacrifices at a time when global government is coming with a world who's morals would have to rival those of Sodom and the pre-flood world. The church would have to be largely anemic and full of false covetous teachers who have departed from the faith. This is exactly what is the present day condition as the UN has made more resolutions against Israel than all other nations combined. The Jews have prepared the article for the temple services to resume and the covenant with the many will divide the land and Jerusalem.
    There are a great many passages such as Ezekiel 36 which are still future and cannot be applied to the church that have not been fulfilled and they make perfect sense and are congruent with the literal view and match the current landscape of geopolitical world.
     
  15. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Let's test your exegesis and let our readers decide who's is better.
    The fact remains, unless one can find another OT prophesy about the arrival of Living Waters, Zechariah 14:8 is the ONLY verse that Jesus was claiming fulfillment of in John 7:38.
    And Jesus' Interpretation MUST be the FINAL AUTHORITATIVE one for us.

    You do understand Rome led a multinational coalition don't you?

    OK, time to shine...
    Show us your "good exegesis" of this verse.
    What does it mean "as He fights in the day of Battle"?
    Clearly, this is referencing previous battles of God.
    This passage is pointing us to previous teaching in scripture for us to go to, in order to uncover the NATURE of how God fought in PREVIOUS days of Battle to this one, so we can recognize it when we see it.

    Show us ANY scripture that teaches /explains the nature of God fighting in the day of Battle.. there are plenty to choose from. Which ones do you believe this passage is referencing?
    Show me yours and I'll show you mine.
    EXEGETE!

    I tend to agree with the ECF on this one, applying it to Christ's earthly ministry.
    Tertullian (A.D. 145-220) wrote (barely 150 years after it happened):
    “But at night He went out to the Mount of Olives. For thus had Zechariah pointed out: ‘And His feet shall stand in that day on the Mount of Olives’
    Tertullian was alluding to the fact that the Olivet prophecy set the stage for the judgment-coming of Christ that would once for all break down the Jewish/Gentile division. Matthew Henry explains the theology behind the prophecy:

    The partition-wall between Jew and Gentiles shall be taken away. The mountains about Jerusalem, and particularly this, signified it to be an enclosure, and that it stood in the way of those who would approach to it. Between the Gentiles and Jerusalem this mountain of Bether, of division, stood, Cant. ii. 17. But by the destruction of Jerusalem this mountain shall be made to cleave in the midst, and so the Jewish pale shall be taken down, and the church laid in common with the Gentiles, who were made one with the Jews by the breaking down of this middle wall of partition, Eph. ii. 14.8

    Please demonstrate for us how the above is an unreasonable, incorrect interpretation of the Passage in Zechariah.
    Please use objectivity.
    Check this out... Complete with Photographic, physical Evidence!

    The fact that Jesus stood on the Mt. of Olives is confirmed by the fact that the Mount of Olives was split in two from east to west by a Roman road in the first century.

    And indeed it was and is! The Mt. of Olives was, in fact, split down the middle by a Roman road that formed a valley through the middle of the mountain in the first century.

    Below is a photograph of the Mount of Olives taken a little over a hundred years ago showing the Mount of Olives split in two by a road.

    [​IMG]



    The GOSPEL does all these things. Year round, does it not?... flowing with LIVING WATERS for all who are thirsty to DRINK from.

    Do you seriously believe the LIVING WATERS of John 4:14 that began flowing from Jerusalem in the 1st century (and still are flowing today) are FAKE?
    Inferior?
    Not enough?
    Inefficient?
    Lacking?
    POWERLESS?

    Wow.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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  16. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Thank you for providing those verses.

    Here are the places in the NT where it is used.
    [It is also where Jesus ascended from in Acts 1:11-12, which is also interesting.]

    Matthew 21:1 Now when they drew near Jerusalem, and came to Bethphage,[fn] at the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples,
    Matthew 24:3 Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling! to us.....
    Matthew 26:30 And when they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

    Mark 11:1
    Now when they drew near Jerusalem, to Bethphage and Bethany, at the Mount of Olives, He sent two of His disciples;
    Mark 13:3 and of sitting of Him into the Mount of Olives facing the Temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew inquired of Him privately...
    Mark 14:26 And when they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

    Luke 19:29
    And it came to pass, when He drew near to Bethphage[fn] and Bethany, at the mountain being called of Olives, that He sent two of His disciples,
    Luke 19:37 Then, as He was now drawing near the descent of the Mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works they had seen,
    Luke 21:37 And in the daytime He was teaching in the temple, but at night He went out and stayed on the Mount the one being called of Olives.
    Luke 22:39 Coming out, He went to the Mount of Olives, as He was accustomed, and His Disciples also followed Him.

    John 8:1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
    ====================================
    Acts 1:
    11 who also said, 'Men, Galileans, why do ye stand gazing into the heaven? this Jesus who was received up from you into the heaven, shall so come in what manner ye saw him going on to the heaven.'
    12 Then did they return to Jerusalem from the Mount that is called Olivet<1638>, that is near Jerusalem, a sabbath's journey
    ;

    https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
    https://www.preteristarchive.com/BibleStudies/DeadSeaScrolls/1QM_4Q491-496_war-scroll.html


    ....................................
     
  17. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    the living waters that Jesus promised were and always have been available. The LORD in Jer said they had forsaken Him the fountain of living waters and had hewn out cisterns that can hold not water. To relegate this promise of the new river flowing year round to be the promise of the Holy Spirit is a stretch. The armies that come against Jerusalem are destroyed then and not victorious. The graphic melting of them is depicted. Then a clear new order is established when the LORD is king over all the earth. Daniel clearly says that the judgment is found in favor of the saints who are being persecuted and the son of man comes and his dominion is all. In this world today we see Christians being killed. We see massive ammounts of abortion and pornography and homosexuality and now transgender initiatives being forwarded that label Christians as haters and intolerant. This is not ruling with a rod of iron.
    The promise of receiving living water by coming to Jesus is not proof that the river described in Zech is not a literal river. Joel on the day of the LORD also speaks of the new waters to flow.
    For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
    15 The sun and moon will grow dark,
    And the stars will diminish their brightness.
    16 The LORD also will roar from Zion,
    And utter His voice from Jerusalem;
    The heavens and earth will shake;
    But the LORD will be a shelter for His people,
    And the strength of the children of Israel.
    17 “So you shall know that I am the LORD your God,
    Dwelling in Zion My holy mountain.
    Then Jerusalem shall be holy,
    And no aliens shall ever pass through her again.”
    And it will come to pass in that day
    That the mountains shall drip with new wine,
    The hills shall flow with milk,
    And all the brooks of Judah shall be flooded with water;
    A fountain shall flow from the house of the LORD
    And water the Valley of Acacias.
    19 “Egypt shall be a desolation,
    And Edom a desolate wilderness,
    Because of violence against the people of Judah,
    For they have shed innocent blood in their land.
    20 But Judah shall abide forever,
    And Jerusalem from generation to generation.
    21 For I will acquit them of the guilt of bloodshed, whom I had not acquitted;
    For the LORD dwells in Zion.”
     
  18. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I see that you have trouble quote verses (and its context) to prove your position.

    Where in Scripture that Israel need to be a sovereign physical nation? And Jerusalem need to be a physical city? Verses, please. Besides, you got wrong Israel and Jerusalem to begin with anyway.

    Divided? Scripture, please.

    Where in Scripture that a physical temple need to rebuild and animal sacrifices restored despite the fact that Christ already provided himself once and once for all?

    Global Government? Sigh.

    This is already taking place and THIS is Babylon the Great!

    Man-made speculations without Scripture support, whatsoever.

    It is because you have a carnal mind that lacks spiritual discernment of what the Word of God actually talks about. You are watching too much TV News and fantasy books of Zionism false prophets for interpretations which is NOT God's interpretations.[/quote]
     
  19. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    Then the Lord will go forth
    And fight against those nations,
    As He fights in the day of battle.
    Zachariah 14:3


    Was Titus and the Roman army destroyed in 70 AD?


    And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
    Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
    Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
    And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
    Zechariah 14:12



    The Olivet Discourse nor Zechariah 14 have any thing at all to do with 70 AD.





    JLB
     
  20. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    Then the Lord will go forth
    And fight against those nations,
    As He fights in the day of battle.
    Zachariah 14:3


    Was Titus and the Roman army destroyed in 70 AD?



    And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
    Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
    Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
    And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
    Zechariah 14:12



    Did Titus and the Roman army have their eyes melted from their heads?



    The Olivet Discourse nor Zechariah 14 have anything to do with the events of 70 AD.



    JLB
     
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