Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

[LittleLambofJesus]

Luke alone includes Jesus’ promise that anyone who watches and prays will be allowed to escape all these things that will come to pass.

Matthew 24:42
“Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.

Mark 13:33
33 “Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is.’

Luke 21:
34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 “For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 “Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”




.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Luke has this in chapter 12. I have found I have to do phrase searches to find where similar verses are used from Matthew 24.
This concluded the Matthew, Mark and Luke 70ad Jerusalem/Temple discourse.......
When I have time, I will try to harmonize all 3 this with the book of Revelation........I hope this has been edifying.........

Matthew 24:
43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.
44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
Mark 13:35
“Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn.
36 If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’ ”
Luke 12:
39 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into.
40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

And this is the conclusion of Matthew 24

Matthew 24:
45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


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[LittleLambofJesus]

You are so busy matching up what agrees in the Greek you can't see forest for the trees.

Luke is talking about the desolation that occurs in Jerusalem 70AD. There was no temple for anything to be set up as it was destroyed. Whereas Matthew is talking about the abomination of desolation that is set up in the Temple. The Temple is the future Temple that has not yet been built.

I also agree about Luke 21 being 70ad

Matt 24:14, Luke 21:26 same event as Reve 3:10?






.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Mark leaves out "sabbath"
,

Perhaps because Saint Peter was preaching to Gentiles in Rome and so omitted reference to a particular Jewish custom. And tradition.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Luke alone includes Jesus’ promise that anyone who watches and prays will be allowed to escape all these things that will come to pass.

Matthew 24:42
“Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.

Mark 13:33
33 “Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is.’

Luke 21:
34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 “For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 “Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”




.

Presumably implying Pella?

All 3 Olivet discourses Use the language of enduring. To be saved. Which I think is largely equivalent?

 

[Erik Nelson]

Matthew and Mark have "tribulation". Luke never uses that word in his Gospel.

All 3 mention "sun, moon, stars".

Luke leaves out "sun darkened", "moon not give light" and "stars fall" but rather uses "signs"

All 3 mention the "powers of heavens"

Mark and Luke leave out "tribes mourn"

All 3 mention "son of man cloud/s with power and glory"

Luke 21:28 mentions the phrase "look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption<629> draws near";
[It is interesting to note that #G629 occurs only in this 1 verse of the Gospels].

Matthew 24:
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

Mark 13:
24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
25 “the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in heaven will be shaken.
26 “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.”

Luke 21:
25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;
26 “men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken.
27 “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 “Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption<629> draws near.”

.

Josephus mentions a wondrous sign of Angels warring in the clouds over Jerusalem during the Jewish war.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Matthew and Luke are the only Gospels that mention Noah.

Luke mentions "days of Noah" in chapter 17 instead of 21

Matthew 24:
37 “But as the days of Noah were,
so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
38 “For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
39 “and did not know until the flood came and took them all away,
so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Luke 17:
26 And as it came to pass in the days of Noah,
thus also will it be in the days of the Son of Man:
27 They were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until that day Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came and destroyed all.



.

maybe Gentile Romans had no major flood myth to relate to?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

maybe Gentile Romans had no major flood myth to relate to?

That could be.........



.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

When discussing what will happen in Jerusalem Luke talks 70 AD and Matthew talks a future event that has not occurred yet.
Conclusion - Both are comparable endtime prophecies.......except ...... When talking about what happens in Jerusalem in these chapters Luke talks 70AD and Matthew talks a future event.

Do you and/or others view Luke 17 as 70ad or future?
Is Luke 17 different than Luke 21?

Matthew 24:37
“But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Luk 17:26
“And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
===================
Mat 12:41
“The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
Luk 11:32
“The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
============
Mat 24:28
“For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
Luk 17:37
And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?” So He said to them,
“Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
=================
Mat 24:
18 “And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.
40 “Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.
Luk 17:31
31“In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And like
36 “Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”[fn]


,

 

[iamlamad]

Do you and/or others view Luke 17 as 70ad or future?
Is Luke 17 different than Luke 21?

Matthew 24:37
“But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Luk 17:26
“And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
===================
Mat 12:41
“The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
Luk 11:32
“The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
============
Mat 24:28
“For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
Luk 17:37
And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?” So He said to them,
“Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
=================
Mat 24:
18 “And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.
40 “Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.
Luk 17:31
31“In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And like
36 “Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”[fn]


,

Perhaps both Matthew and Luke are end times....but God had Luke written so it would also fit 70 AD.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Do you and/or others view Luke 17 as 70ad or future?
Is Luke 17 different than Luke 21?

Matthew 24:37
“But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Luk 17:26
“And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
===================
Mat 12:41
“The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
Luk 11:32
“The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
============
Mat 24:28
“For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
Luk 17:37
And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?” So He said to them,
“Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
=================
Mat 24:
18 “And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.
40 “Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.
Luk 17:31
31“In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And like
36 “Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”[fn]


,

Luke 17 = 2C
sudden unexpected judgement and separation, without the obvious build ups to 70ad

according to the orthodox study bible (Luke 17:37 = Rev 20:9?):

 

[Erik Nelson]

Don K Preston makes the insightful observation that the Transfiguration. Symbolizes. The passing of the law of Moses and the writings of the prophets like Elijah. In favor of the New Testament of Christ. In whom God the father was most pleased.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Revelation 1:7 = John 19:37 = Zechariah 12:10 = Isaiah 53:5 = Psalms 22:16*

* Refuting rabbinic objections to Christianity and Messianic prophecies by Eitan Bar

according to the New Testament, Jesus Christ often linked. The Pharisees with the scribes.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Luke has this in chapter 12. I have found I have to do phrase searches to find where similar verses are used from Matthew 24.
This concluded the Matthew, Mark and Luke 70ad Jerusalem/Temple discourse.......
When I have time, I will try to harmonize all 3 this with the book of Revelation........I hope this has been edifying.........

Matthew 24:
43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.
44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
Mark 13:35
“Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn.
36 If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’ ”
Luke 12:
39 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into.
40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

And this is the conclusion of Matthew 24

Matthew 24:
45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


.

looks like Jesus said the same thing over & over (Luke 12 + Luke 17 + Matt 24/Mark 13/Luke 21)

 

[Erik Nelson]

Luke alone includes Jesus’ promise that anyone who watches and prays will be allowed to escape all these things that will come to pass.

Matthew 24:42
“Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.

Mark 13:33
33 “Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is.’

Luke 21:
34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 “For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 “Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”




.

I now understand the Olivet Discourse (OD) after Matt 24:36 refers to the Second Coming (2C) not 70AD

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Perhaps both Matthew and Luke are end times....but God had Luke written so it would also fit 70 AD.

Yeah.
Luke appears to be more understandable to a Gentile non Jew. It also harmonized quite nicely with Revelation..............

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Luke 17 = 2C
sudden unexpected judgement and separation, without the obvious build ups to 70ad

according to the orthodox study bible (Luke 17:37 = Rev 20:9?):

I actually have a thread on Luke 17:37:

"Where the body/carcass is, there the eagles be gathered" Matt 24 Luke 17-- 70ad and Revelation?

Matthew 24:28
for wherever the corpse<4430> may be,
there shall the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together.

Luke 17:37
And they answering say to him, 'Where, sir?'
and He saith to them, 'Where the body<4983> is, there will the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together.'

Which is used in 1 verse of Revelation concerning the destruction of the "Great City/Harlot/Queen".......70ad Jerusalem

Revelation 18:13
and cinnamon, and odours, and ointment, and frankincense,
and wine, and oil,
and fine flour, and wheat,
and cattle, and sheep,
and of horses, and of chariots,
and of bodies<4983> and souls<5590> of men.
============================================

Have you read thru the OSB?
Some info on it:

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Orthodox_Study_Bible

The Orthodox Study Bible
is a translation and annotation of the Bible currently in production by clergy and laity within the Orthodox Church. The text of the New Testament and Psalms translation is currently the New King James Version accompanied by Orthodox view..............

 

[Erik Nelson]

I actually have a thread on Luke 17:37:

"Where the body/carcass is, there the eagles be gathered" Matt 24 Luke 17-- 70ad and Revelation?

Matthew 24:28
for wherever the corpse<4430> may be,
there shall the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together.

Luke 17:37
And they answering say to him, 'Where, sir?'
and He saith to them, 'Where the body<4983> is, there will the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together.'

Which is used in 1 verse of Revelation concerning the destruction of the "Great City/Harlot/Queen".......70ad Jerusalem

Revelation 18:13
and cinnamon, and odours, and ointment, and frankincense,
and wine, and oil,
and fine flour, and wheat,
and cattle, and sheep,
and of horses, and of chariots,
and of bodies<4983> and souls<5590> of men.
============================================

Have you read thru the OSB?
Some info on it:

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Orthodox_Study_Bible

The Orthodox Study Bible
is a translation and annotation of the Bible currently in production by clergy and laity within the Orthodox Church. The text of the New Testament and Psalms translation is currently the New King James Version accompanied by Orthodox view..............

Luke 17 includes phrases from the entire Olivet discourse, both before and after Matthew 24:34, which could divide that version of the OD between 70 ad and the 2C

but Luke 17 conflates it all into a single event

the OSB says the sign of Jesus in heaven is the cross, which resembles the report of Constantine at Milvian bridge

 

[Erik Nelson]

GODAWA’S “CHRONICLES OF THE APOCALYPSE”

 

[parousia70]

Luke 17 includes phrases from the entire Olivet discourse, both before and after Matthew 24:34, which could divide that version of the OD between 70 ad and the 2C
but Luke 17 conflates it all into a single event

Indeed.