Matthew 24:32-34 the budding of the fig tree?

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Why do futurists, premillennialists, and dispensationalists all interpret the budding of the fig tree as the 1948 founding of the secular state of Israel? Instead of the destruction of the temple, the coming of the Lord, and the end of the age?

Have any of you read Luke 21:29 where the exact same verse is not restricted to the fig tree exclusively but includes "all the trees", which means according to your interpretation to Matthew, all the nations of the world were founded in 1948?
 

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Jeremiah 24:1-10 is the best scripture that makes the allegory of Judah and figs.
So from this and by the way that Jesus cursed the fig tree, Matthew 21:19, we know the prophecy of Matthew 24:32 is about the Jewish people. Be aware this does not refer to all of the Israelites, they remain scattered among the nations.
Luke 21:29 does render that prophecy differently, there Jesus just seems to be saying how people should know when they see the things mentioned in Luke 21:25-28, happening: then the end is near.

We don't relate the 'fig tree budding' prophecy to 70AD, because the things of Luke 21:25-28 are yet to happen and the undeniable miracle of the re-establishment of the Jewish State of Israel in 1948 is the 'firstfruits' of the great restoration of all Israel.
 
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Dave Watchman

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Why do futurists, premillennialists, and dispensationalists all interpret the budding of the fig tree as the 1948 founding of the secular state of Israel? Instead of the destruction of the temple, the coming of the Lord, and the end of the age?

I would be about 2/3s Historicist who thinks the 1948 "Fig tree" means that summer is here.

Have any of you read Luke 21:29

No, I missed that one. Thanks for pointing it out.

Have any of you read Luke 21:29 where the exact same verse is not restricted to the fig tree exclusively but includes "all the trees", which means according to your interpretation to Matthew, all the nations of the world were founded in 1948?

Not all the nations, just the ones connected with the Fig tree.

israel-map.jpg


Starting from the top and continuing clockwise: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt.

Lebanon (1943)

Following World War I, France acquired a mandate over the northern portion of the former Ottoman Empire province of Syria. The French separated out the region of Lebanon in 1920, and granted this area independence in 1943.

Syria (1946)

Following World War I, France acquired a mandate over the northern portion of the former Ottoman Empire province of Syria. The French administered the area as Syria until granting it independence in 1946.

Jordan (1946)

Following World War I and the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, the UK received a mandate to govern much of the Middle East. Britain separated out a semi-autonomous region of Transjordan from Palestine in the early 1920s, and the area gained its independence in 1946; it adopted the name of Jordan in 1950.

Egypt (1952)

Partially independent from the UK in 1922, Egypt acquired full sovereignty with the overthrow of the British-backed monarchy in 1952.

Israel (1948)

Following World War II, Britain withdrew from its mandate of Palestine, and the UN proposed partitioning the area into Arab and Jewish states, an arrangement rejected by the Arabs. Nonetheless, an Israeli state was declared in 1948 and Israel subsequently defeated the Arab armies in a series of wars that did not end deep tensions between the two sides.

Do you think that this all was just a coincidence?

All between the years 1943 and 1952 –all within five years of the birth of The Fig Tree in 1948. These trees were not even nations before WW1 they were just parts of the Ottoman Empire and then parts of the British Empire or the French.

"“Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. As soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near"

"And all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

"Then all the trees of the woods will rejoice before the Lord.
For He is coming, for He is coming to judge the earth



From the CIA World Fact Book:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/resources/the-world-factbook/wfbExt/region_mde.html
(Click the name of the country then click "introduction")
 
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zionist jews have no entitlement to land.

israel had a purpose not only to produce the seed and the savior of the world but to be a holy nation and chosen priesthood set apart for god this continues on to be fulfilled by the church 1 peter 2:9-10 with our melchizedek high priest jesus.

the old covenant has passed away in a.d. 70 see hebrews 8:13 & 10:9 but had it still stood is secular israel fulfilling Leviticus 26:40-42 & deuteronomy 30:1-3? no!

physical circumcision was removed (galatians 5:1-5; galatians 6:15-16; colossians 3:11) and replaced by spiritual circumcision romans 2:28-29 and philippians 3:3.

but here's the kicker, circumcision is the title deed and entitlement to the land see genesis 17:14

no circumcision NO LAND!

this is demonstrated in joshua 5:2-9, god denied israel the land until all of israel was circumcized first.

but there was a removal of circumcision therefore a removal of the title deed and entitlement of the land.

what country and city did abraham desire and receive (hebrews 11:10,16; hebrews 12:22; galatians 4:25-26) the same city and country that requires faith (not works of the law) and spiritual circumcision (not circumcision of the flesh).

the land promise of palestine was a shadow for the reality of a heavenly country and a heavenly city.

the palestine promise was temporary and was removed in a.d. 70. as was circumcision which gave the israelites entitlement to the land as long as they also were obedient to the mosaic covenant see deuteronomy 28-30 and leviticus 26.
 
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Do you think that this all was just a coincidence?

No. I think it was all carefully orchestrated by the Jewish elite that controlled the UN. No hand of God required.
 
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Dave Watchman

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zionist jews have no entitlement to land.

That sounds like Colonel Klink talking. No soup for me? Would you allow them "air" to breathe? Or are they entitled to have some "water" to drink.

israel had a purpose not only to produce the seed and the savior of the world but to be a holy nation and chosen priesthood set apart for god this continues on to be fulfilled by the church 1 peter 2:9-10 with our melchizedek high priest jesus.

Israel's purpose now is to be blinded in part and to hold up the sign that summer is here and Jesus is coming soon. But He might not have been coming at all because He might have never left in the first place so Daniel 9 was worded 2600 years ago in a way that was more than artful, more than genius. Daniel 9 was articulated in a manner that could encompass two future comings, one was for sure but the other was a potential coming if required but either way the Script remains true.

"Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes,
[there will be seven 'sevens,'] and [sixty-two 'sevens.']

The reason why the weeks are split up is due to the fact that they want us to "Know and understand this". If the "second coming" would be required it would take place "seven 'sevens,' from an official command to restore and build Jerusalem. There had to be an Israel for this to take place but notice that it's not from the time that Jerusalem is captured, it's from the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.

the old covenant has passed away in a.d. 70

Peaceful Sabbath
 
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Dave Watchman

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No. I think it was all carefully orchestrated by the Jewish elite that controlled the UN.

No hand of God required.

I'm sorry Vincent, that would mean the "Jewish elite" would have had to have control on much more than the UN. They would have had to had controlled Suleiman the Magnificent and his father who had control of Palestine and it's surrounding nations in 1535 when Suleiman gave the decree to restore and build Jerusalem. (Walls still standing from that decree can be seen today.) If the "Jewish elite" are in such complete control, don't you think they would have dealt themselves a better hand from 1939 to 1945?

"Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes,

[there will be seven 'sevens,'] and [sixty-two 'sevens.']

Suleiman the Magnificent made the decree to restore Jerusalem in 1535 + 434 [sixty-two 'sevens.'] = 1969

The Knesset gave the order to restore Jerusalem on Passover eve 1969 + 49 [seven 'sevens,'] = 2018

No > Hand of God required.
 
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I'm sorry Vincent, that would mean the "Jewish elite" would have had to have control on much more than the UN.

No it wouldn't. All they needed was to make the Jews victims of atrocities. After that it was a simple matter of converting that worldwide sympathy into a piece of property.

Suleiman the Magnificent made the decree to restore Jerusalem in 1535 + 434 [sixty-two 'sevens.'] = 1969

The Knesset gave the order to restore Jerusalem on Passover eve 1969 + 49 [seven 'sevens,'] = 2018

No > Hand of God required.

Artaxerxes made a decree to rebuild Jerusalem in 458 BC. Exactly 490 years before Jesus was crucified. Fits like a glove.
 
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This concept of "double fulfillment" sure is convenient isn't it?
Well, Either you believe Lord Jesus is coming back or you don't. Israel, to the chagrin of many, is who we need to watch, like it or not.
 
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This concept of "double fulfillment" sure is convenient isn't it?

I'm not sure "convenient" will prove to be the right word for the people at the end of the world.

No it wouldn't. All they needed was to make the Jews victims of atrocities.

After that it was a simple matter of converting that worldwide sympathy into a piece of property.

Like staging 911 so we could go to war in the middle east? Interesting, I wonder how they knew a sacrifice of six million people would generate enough worldwide sympathy to get their nation back?

Artaxerxes made a decree to rebuild Jerusalem in 458 BC. Exactly 490 years before Jesus was crucified.
Fits like a glove.

Excellent! The next fitment is almost here, we're just waiting for that "last" finger to go in but it's a big one. 434 years between decrees to rebuild Jerusalem are hard to come by and don't just grow on Fig trees.

1535<-------434------->1969

1969<-49->2018?

Did you also notice 1948 + the 70 year Psalm "generation" = 2018?

Daniel 9 has nothing to do with His return.

It was about his first coming only.

No double fulfillment.

No? No soup for me? I'm not sure dual or double are the best words to use here. Maybe a "simultaneous" prophecy or an "is what it is" prophecy is in order. It starts to look like if you can find the right decree to restore Jerusalem, adding seven weeks and sixty-two weeks should get you something very Big. What are the chances of that being accidental? After reading what Isaac Newton said, a quadruple or quintuple descriptor may be in order.

"Thus have we in this short Prophecy, a prediction of all the main periods relating to the coming of the Messiah;
  • the time of his birth,
  • that of his death,
  • that of the rejection of the Jews,
  • the duration of the Jewish war whereby he caused the city and sanctuary to be destroyed,
  • and the time of his second coming:
and so the interpretation here given is more full and complete and adequate to the design, than if we should restrain it to his first coming only, as Interpreters usually do".

I'll post the quote from Isaac again but if it bothers anyone, they don't have to read it. When I first found it I couldn't make sense of it because I was trying to apply the 62 weeks by itself. Keep reading over what Newton says and then keep reading this translation of Daniel 9:25 with the "and":

"Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes,

[there will be seven 'sevens,'] and [sixty-two 'sevens.']


Try to keep in mind that this was written 2600 years ago and consider that at the time there may not have been a second coming required. The Jews might have cooperated and accepted their Messiah in the first century. Jesus wound have come one time and never departed to heaven, making a second coming unnecessary. Daniel 9 was written in such a way to include both possibilities in a compact simultaneous fashion.

I think there's still more going on here that has to do with Daniel 9 being a continuation of Daniel 8 which did concern our end times and would then lend support to Daniel 9 including information on a second arrival of the Anointed One. But for now I should content myself with how lucky we are to live in a "day" that Isaac Newton would have loved to see.

Sir Isaac Newton
on Daniel 9:


"The former part of the Prophecy related to the first coming of Christ, being dated to his coming as a Prophet; this being dated to his coming to be Prince or King, seems to relate to his second coming. There, the Prophet was consummate, and the most holy anointed: here, he that was anointed comes to be Prince and to reign. For Daniel's Prophecies reach to the end of the world; and there is scarce a Prophecy in the Old Testament concerning Christ, which doth not in something or other relate to his second coming."

"This part of the Prophecy being therefore not yet fulfilled, I shall not attempt a particular interpretation of it, but content myself with observing, that as the seventy and the sixty two weeks were Jewish weeks, ending with sabbatical years; so the seven weeks are the compass of a Jubilee, and begin and end with actions proper for a Jubilee, and of the highest nature for which a Jubilee can be kept: and that since the commandment to return and to build Jerusalem, precedes the Messiah the Prince 49 years; it may perhaps come forth not from the Jews themselves, but from some other kingdom friendly to them, and precede their return from captivity, and give occasion to it."

"Thus have we in this short Prophecy, a prediction of all the main periods relating to the coming of the Messiah; the time of his birth, that of his death, that of the rejection of the Jews, the duration of the Jewish war whereby he caused the city and sanctuary to be destroyed, and the time of his second coming: and so the interpretation here given is more full and complete and adequate to the design, than if we should restrain it to his first coming only, as Interpreters usually do. We avoid also the doing violence to the language of Daniel, by taking the seven weeks and sixty two weeks for one number. Had that been Daniel's meaning, he would have said sixty and nine weeks, and not seven weeks and sixty two weeks."

Notice also in the primary application of Daniel 9 the "seven" weeks seemed lost in significance occurring at the start of the countdown.

In the secondary application the period of seven weeks is the mirror image occurring at the opposite end.

Primary: 7 weeks and 62 weeks.
Secondary: 62 weeks and 7 weeks.

Primary: Artaxerxes (457) + 49 + 434 (-1 for the zero year) = 27

Secondary: Suleiman (1535) + 434 = 1969, The Knesset (1969) + 49 = 2018

Either way,: "From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, [there will be seven 'sevens,'] and [sixty-two 'sevens.']

The odds of a 434 year gap between decrees to rebuild Jerusalem are probably fairly slim. If this secondary application is true, it is a monumental indicator that time is indeed very short and that anything can happen at anytime.

We shall soon see...

"The years of our life are seventy,
or even by reason of strength eighty;
yet their span is but toil and trouble;
they are soon gone, and we fly away.
 
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The Jews might have cooperated and accepted their Messiah in the first century. Jesus wound have come one time and never departed to heaven, making a second coming unnecessary.

First of all, I find it quite incredible that you think God's plan was left to the will of the people, claiming if the Jews had accepted Jesus the plan would've been different, as though God didn't know what they would choose. Secondly, even if all the Jews had accepted Jesus at that time, God still wanted the gospel spread throughout the world, and he still would've given humanity the time necessary to accept it, and then come back for us at the resurrection on the last day.

You're really making Daniel 9 far more complicated than it is.
 
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Like staging 911 so we could go to war in the middle east? Interesting, I wonder how they knew a sacrifice of six million people would generate enough worldwide sympathy to get their nation back?

Case in point. It's not hard to turn the will of the people in your favour. Need a reason to invade Afghanistan? Kill Americans and blame it on Afghanistan. Need a reason to invade Iraq? Tell the people they have dangerous weapons. Need a reason to invade Vietnam? Pretend the VC sunk your battleship. Need a reason to invade Cuba? Fake a plane bombing and blame it on Cuba. Need a new land for a displaced people? Kill a bunch and make the world feel sorry for them.
 
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That sounds like Colonel Klink talking. No soup for me? Would you allow them "air" to breathe? Or are they entitled to have some "water" to drink.



Israel's purpose now is to be blinded in part and to hold up the sign that summer is here and Jesus is coming soon. But He might not have been coming at all because He might have never left in the first place so Daniel 9 was worded 2600 years ago in a way that was more than artful, more than genius. Daniel 9 was articulated in a manner that could encompass two future comings, one was for sure but the other was a potential coming if required but either way the Script remains true.

"Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes,
[there will be seven 'sevens,'] and [sixty-two 'sevens.']

The reason why the weeks are split up is due to the fact that they want us to "Know and understand this". If the "second coming" would be required it would take place "seven 'sevens,' from an official command to restore and build Jerusalem. There had to be an Israel for this to take place but notice that it's not from the time that Jerusalem is captured, it's from the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.



Peaceful Sabbath

Matthew 21:19-22:10 is entirely on the subject of Old Covenant Israel.

Jesus did at times use a fig tree to illustrate fleshly Israel. Once was when He cursed a fig tree on His way to Jerusalem (Matt. 21:19). After He cursed it, He said to it, "Let there be no more fruit from you forever." This indicated the cutting off of fleshly Israel as God's chosen nation forever. Today Christ's Kingdom is God's nation, and all physical Jews are welcome to become citizens of that along with all other nationalities. But fleshly Israel will never again, according to Jesus (Matt. 21:43), produce fruit as God's chosen nation. That holy duty and privilege belongs to Christ's followers both now and forever (cf. Luke 13:7-9; Rev. 6:13). The fig tree was not the main symbol of Israel anyway, instead, it was the olive tree.

- D. A. Green
 
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Daniel 9 has nothing to do with His return. It was about his first coming only. No double fulfillment.

That nation in the middle east is irrelevant to God's plan.

Dan. 9:24-27 deals with the first coming and parousia of Christ. Parousia which means presence appears 4 times in Matt. 24 in verses 3, 27, 37, & 39.

Compare the above text from Daniel with Daniel 12:1-7 & Matthew 24. These are the precise same events.
 
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Dave Watchman

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First of all, I find it quite incredible that you think God's plan was left to the will of the people, claiming if the Jews had accepted Jesus the plan would've been different, as though God didn't know what they would choose.

Are you trying to say that their chance was not for real? What do you think would have happened if the first century Jews would have accepted their Messiah? Would the Temple have been destroyed in 70 AD? Would Stephen have still been stoned? Would Paul still be knocked off his horse by Jesus on his way to Damascus?

I'm sure God knows the end from the beginning but He still gives people the more than fair and honest chance before He takes their kingdom away from them.

Secondly, even if all the Jews had accepted Jesus at that time, God still wanted the gospel spread throughout the world, and he still would've given humanity the time necessary to accept it, and then come back for us at the resurrection on the last day.

No argument from me here. It's just that He would have done this in a somewhat different manner. If the Jews accepted their Messiah, Jesus would have began the Kingdom of God on earth right away. John the Baptist would not have died, "lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction". Jesus would have sent disciples out from Jerusalem to invite anyone who wanted to be saved to come live in Jerusalem. Jerusalem would eventually grow to such a huge population that walls would no longer contain it.

Then, after some time, Lucifer in the guise of Gog Magog would attempt to attack the unwalled Holy City but Jesus would destroy them where they stood and we would spend the next seven years burying them and burning their wooden weapons. And the wolf would lay down with the lamb and we could watch an infant stick his hand into a viper's den while we built Ezekiel's Temple.

But instead Daniel gets unsealed for the final generation, the Gospels are written, Paul gets knocked off his horse, we get an end time Babylon, Antichrist, mark of the beast, two witnesses of 144,000 and a brand New Jerusalem.

Case in point. It's not hard to turn the will of the people in your favour. Need a reason to invade Afghanistan? Kill Americans and blame it on Afghanistan. Need a reason to invade Iraq? Tell the people they have dangerous weapons. Need a reason to invade Vietnam? Pretend the VC sunk your battleship. Need a reason to invade Cuba? Fake a plane bombing and blame it on Cuba. Need a new land for a displaced people? Kill a bunch and make the world feel sorry for them.

I'll leave the geopolitical stuff to Wolf Blitzer.

He was born in 1948, bless his heart.

Wolf Isaac Blitzer
(born March 22, 1948)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Blitzer
 
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