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Matthew 24:14-15: What did Jesus mean?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by random person, Nov 13, 2014.

  1. End of the Jewish Age & The Roman world! A.D. 70

  2. End of the whole earth! A.D. ????

  3. Double Fulfillment!

  4. Other

  5. I Don't Know

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  1. KrAZeD

    KrAZeD Newbie

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    forgive me I really didn't word that as properly as I should have.

    We easily agree he wrote what God intended- Though did Paul understand that "all creation under heaven" was more than what he currently new (other countries/continents). The importance is wether or not it was "fulfilled" at that time or if the completion of that assertion is still "ongoing". Just because paul reiterates that promise given to him doesn't automatically make the statement complete at that moment in time.

    If all creation under heaven represent the entire globe -as it should, who was traveling to North and South America at that time spreading the Word? Remember the "Americas" weren't "discovered" until many centuries later- though we know civilizations had been living in both south and north at the time of paul making this statement. An I really don't grasp how one can insinuate that either the Americas aren't part of the creation under heaven- or that the knowledge of the Americas existing disappeared for many centuries only to get "rediscovered", as well as no one recording the "gospel" in the Americas at this time- leading one to have to "believe" it was properly memorized and recited verbatim via word of mouth for 14+ centuries.

    Yes Paul is a minister to all creation and will continue to G so, however if Paul perceived that it was already done he might have been mistaken (as well as those thinking that as well), but by the time everything comes to pass it will G correct as God had meant and intended- as in when the gospel has literally reached every part of the entire earth- including hidden tribes in the middle of the rain forest.
     
  2. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    The known world, at that time, is what Paul is referring to as far as I'm concerned. His statement is pretty emphatic and I do not believe it to be hyperbole.

    Think about how the Ethiopian Eunuch received the gospel and afterward God miraculously swept Him away.

    How about the miracle of Cornelius? God wanted him to receive the gospel, so he sent an angel to Peter and after giving Peter a vision, to teach him that nothing is unclean...He sends peter to Cornelius.

    Never discount the power of God! I believe Paul's statement to be exactly what he said "all creation under heaven".
     
  3. Straightshot

    Straightshot Member

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    Response to the OP


    The Lord is speaking about the time of the end of this present age related to a regathered remnant of Israel .... the coming time of Jacob's trouble [Jeremiah] .... [70 AD was not a part of His projection]

    He speaks of these things [Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 13; 14; Matthew 24:15-16; Luke 21:20-36; Romans 11:25-36; Revelation 7:1-8; 12:6; 12:14-17]

    He is not finished with His national people of Israel as the preterist and the replacement theologist teaches

    The remnant has returned today in unbelief and in position for the setting that the Lord reveals

    1/3 of the nation will turn and believe upon their Messiah and King during the coming tribulation, the balance will be killed and lost forever
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2015
  4. KrAZeD

    KrAZeD Newbie

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    I don't discredit anything God can do.

    with respect to the eunuch and Cornelius, they are documented for our teaching and understanding- their are very few "documents" of Christianity showing up in the Americas or about the Americas around the time of Paul's writing. So the possibility of a disciple/apostle getting whisked to them to spread the gospel while possible seems more unlikely than so. An raises the query of if they were whisked to the Americas and other remote regions why is it not in scripture as well.

    Now you said it best with "as far as I am concerned", because your
    being honest. It should not G with what we are concerned with or desire but what God himself is concerned with and God desires. Does God mean only the portions of land/people that come in contact with the Israelites/Jews or is all creation of every man what He had in mind when Paul asserts his position of minister of all under the heavens. While you have chosen to view it as meaning only the land they had known at the time- why, hopefully it is not because that's the only way that verse can get understood according to your belief and view.

    I agree it is not hyperbole and is emphatic. Though care to explain who's the minister of those that resided in the Americas at that time- as well as any foreign land that they were not familiar with at that stage of history? Seems a little unfair to those whom were not "known" in that period of history to get left in the dark regarding the spreading of the gospel.

    Personally what keeps me fom viewing that verse as only the "perceived" known world, is that God knew where every person was located. He knew civilizations laid outside of their "known" world. I take it back to the Tower of Babel when God spread them abroad upon the face of all the earth. Their were people and civilizations across the seas and had no contact with those in the middle east. I don't see God not providing an equal opportunity of salvation to every man whom He gives the breath of life to, nor allowing them not to have a chance at redemption because they were not "known" at that time.
     
  5. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    I agree
    Does it have to be documented? Those very instances show that God will send the gospel to those who desire to know him. Recall that God will not refuse a contrite heart. Therefore knowing what God has said, it stands!
    I basically stand on scripture. God repeatedly shows He will answer those who see him. That's His word, and that's enough for me because scripture shows it many time Old and New testaments
    You have the answers in scripture. However what you're saying is you want God to document every instance for your sake...at least that's what I'm gathering. At the same time you have several instances of proof that God will answer those seeking Him, wherever they are.
    Yet we're told "The heavens declare the glory of God", and the earth also. There's witness in creation.
     
  6. KrAZeD

    KrAZeD Newbie

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    That depends on ones issue, while personally I don't always need proof to believe what I believe, proof helps in showing how it can G true and not just a desired interpretation. For those making a case such as the gospel "was" spread to all of the earth because this verse says this and supports that and this, then yes proof should G available since it is past. Without proof it's just a presumption.

    While we don't doubt all scripture is true, it's wether or not something is already fulfilled or will come to pass. For if the gospel had reached all of man then I would expect proof showing in the Americas- in a minimum of some sort of recorded account. Though since "our" discussion is of Paul in col 1 a "church" would G the bread and butter of showing complete passing of his statements especially since he is the minister unto the gentiles.

    While your position of it only being of the world he was familiar with, I see it representing every corner of the globe. Without proof then their is no way I can currently consider the alternative, especially since we are just getting to the stage that their is no one who hasn't been provided the gospel at one point in their life, providing credence to the notion that his statement is ongoing and not entirely completed yet and likewise that the "until" in matthew is present/future and not past.

    every instance- no. Though for completed prophecies (i.e. Egypt bondage, Christs death, Noah's flood, first destruction of the temple) do we not have more proof than we know what to do with. Theirs no doubt on fulfilled prophecy, theirs doubt on prophecies that lack the proof of their fulfillment, theirs doubt on passages when one must change the plain meaning to attempt to show or make sense of a statement or prophecy. In your case meaning just the "known world" of those days and not the entire creation- the entire earth that resides under heaven- unless of course heaven is small and only incorporates that much space in relation to the size of earth. Unless their is another minister for those outside of Paul's "heaven" at that time....

    My issue with that train of thought is who is actually speaking- God or man. God knows all, when He allows the Holy Spirit to come upon a man I presume that whatever they say and write is governed by God. When we read scripture take the man factor out and attempt to see it coming from God- Paul will and is a minister to all of creation, not just a select few who happened to dwell in a specific area of earth at that time. Even to this day his ministering is ongoing. An that is the thing, his ministry is ongoing, steadily accomplishing what he spoke of- reaching all creatures under heaven.

    can't agree more, those who seek God shall find Him, and all creation itself is a witness unto God.
     
  7. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    I get you train of thought but I fail to see what you drive at. Paul declared the gospel had been preached and spread (at that time).

    The only point I think debatable...is how it happened.
     
  8. Bible2

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    Regarding "the end of the world", in Matthew 24:3, the original Greek word (aion: G0165) translated as "world" can be translated as "age" (Ephesians 2:7, Colossians 1:26).

    It is sometimes claimed that the end of the "age" refers to the end of the Old-Covenant age in 70 AD. But the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law ended not at the destruction of the 2nd temple in 70 AD, but decades earlier, at the moment that Jesus died on the Cross (Matthew 27:50-51a), and abolished the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19), which was the same moment that he brought the New Covenant into effect (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:51a). So there was no transition period, no overlap at all (Hebrews 10:9b, Hebrews 7:12), between the time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and the time of the New Covenant.

    Also, while the apostles asked Jesus about the end of the age (Matthew 24:3), he didn't tell them that the end of the age would occur at the destruction of the 2nd temple, or (as is sometimes claimed) before the future tribulation, or even at the end of the future tribulation, i.e. at his (post-tribulation) 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-31), or when the end of the age would occur, just as Jesus didn't tell the apostles many other things during his ministry (John 16:12). It wouldn't be until much later that Jesus would show the apostle John, through the vision in the book of Revelation (given about 95 AD: Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), that the end of the age, when all the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Matthew 13:40, Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:15), won't occur until over 1,000 years after Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:15).
     
  9. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

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    Hi Bible2, Good to see you 2


    The only thing is, I wasn't talking about Matthew 24:3. I was talking about Matthew 24:14 being the 1260th day of Daniel 12 which is the same span of time as the 1260 days from Revelation 11.

    24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    The "end" that Jesus is talking about is not the end of the world but it will be for some, it's the end of salvation.

    It's the Two Witnesses and 144,000 that preach this Gospel to all the world and then God's plan of salvation will come to an end on the 1260th day at the seventh (not the last) trumpet. There will still be 75 days remaining after this for the 7 bowls which will bring us to The Last Day of Our End Time Tribulation. (1335 - 1260 = 75) I know this sounds strange.

    Our End Time Tribulation is going to begin at Revelation 8, this is what Jesus is telling us in verse 7.

    And there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

    This is the first earthquake during the tribulation mentioned in Revelation 8 just before the 1st trumpet..

    All these are the beginning of sorrows.

    All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.


    The sorrows or birth pains are the first four trumpets, the "first" plagues.

    "and there shall be pestillence, and famine, and earthquake in everyplace" - duTillet

    "and these are but the beginning of the plagues" - duTillet


    "seven angels having the seven last plagues,
    for in them the wrath of God is complete"


    Seven "last" plagues means there's got to be seven "first" plagues right?

    The Book of Matthew is different than any other book in the New Testament. Matthew 24 is like a condensed version of Revelation. Matthew 24 from verse 7 to 31, Jesus is talking about Our End Time Tribulation, in a fast pace chronological order.
    Luke 21 started out the same but for some reason Jesus stopped at verse 12 “But before all this" and started talking about His Disciples immediate future.

    http://www.christianforums.com/t7859904/#post66895139

    http://www.christianforums.com/t7859904/#post66895219 (page 16 of the PDF)

    http://www.christianforums.com/t7859904-2/#post66912087


    If you read page 16 to 18 starting at The Genealogy, it should be clear that the duTillet is the most original and accurate version of Matthew. It has the missing name of Jesus' Grandfather. Could the original Greek word (aion: G0165), actually not be the original word from Matthew. Unlike the other books of the New Testament that were translated from Greek to English, Matthew was originally written in Hebrew and then translated to Greek and then translated to English.

    אבית , Abiud.

    אביור , Abiur.


    Now the name Abner is sometimes written as אבינר , Abiner (cf. 1 Sam. 14:50, 51). Supposing the scribe to have had before him אביוד הוליד את אבינר , “Abiud begat Abiner,” he might easily omit the second name as a dittograph.

    - Hugh Schonfield 1927



    Learn ye the parable from the fig tree; When its branch is tender, and the leaves sprout, ye know that the ripe fruit is nigh - du Tillet


    Notice: "the ripe fruit is nigh" does it kind of remind you of "the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale"



    Matthew 24 (duTillet MS)

    1 And Jesus went out; and as he was departing from the Temple his disciples drew nigh in order to shew him the buildings of the Temple.

    2 But he answered them, saying, Regard ye all these things? Verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here stone upon stone, that shall not be overthrown.

    3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, his disciples approached him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what sign shall there be at thy coming, and the end of the world?

    4 Then Jesus answered and saith unto them, Let there be no man deceive you.

    5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Messiah; and shall deceive many.

    6 For ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not dismayed: it needs must be that such things be done, but the end is not yet.

    7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be pestilence, and famine, and earthquake, in every place.

    8 And these are but the beginning of the plagues.

    9 Then shall they give you over to the tribulation, and shall slay you: and all nations shall hate you on account of my name.

    10 And then shall many be offended, and a man shall betray his neighbour, yea, a man shall hate his brother.

    11 And many false prophets shall arise, and shall lead many astray.

    12 And because apostasy shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

    13 But whoso endureth unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    14 And this tidings of the kingdom shall be preached throughout the world for a witness unto all the Gentiles; and then shall the end come.

    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, he who said that it should stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

    16 then let them which be in Judah flee unto the mountains:

    17and he that is upon the roof, let him not descend to take ought out of his house:

    18 and he that is in the field, let him not return to take his clothes.

    19 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that are about to bear, and to them that give suck in those days!

    20 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath:

    21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as there has never been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be after it.

    22 And if those days had not been shortened, there should no flesh be saved: only on account of the elect those days shall be shortened.

    23 Then if any man saith unto you, Behold, here is the Messiah, or there; believe it not.

    24 Because there shall arise false Messiahs, and false prophets, and shall give great signs and wonders; that so they may bring about, if that were possible, the going astray of the very elect.

    25 Behold, I have told you.

    26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth:behold, he is in the 27 apartments; believe it not.

    27 For as the lightning goeth forth from the east, and appeareth even unto the west; so shall be the coming of the Son of Man.

    28 Wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

    29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:

    30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven:and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, when they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with great power and glory .

    31 And he shall send his angels with a trumpet, and a great voice, that they may gather together his elect from the four winds, from the heights of heaven to the extremities thereof.

    32 Learn ye the parable from the fig tree; When its branch is tender, and the leaves sprout, ye know that the ripe fruit is nigh:

    33 so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till the whole be accomplished.

    35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

    36 Until that day, and concerning that hour there shall be no man that knoweth, not even the angels in heaven, but my Father only.

    37 And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man.

    38 For as they were in the days that were before the flood eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,

    39 and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall be the coming of the Son of Man.

    40 Then shall two be in the field; one shall be taken, and one shall be left.

    41 Two [women] shall be grinding at the mill; one shall be taken, and one shall be left.

    41a Two shall be in one bed; one shall be taken, and one shall be left.

    42 Be ye alert therefore:for ye know not at what hour your Lord cometh.

    43 But know this, if the householder had known at what hour the thief would come, in truth, he would have been alert, and not allowed his house to be broken into.

    44 Therefore be ye also ready: for ye know not at what hour the Son of Man cometh.

    45 Who then is a faithful and prudent servant, whom the lord hath set over his household, that he may give them bread in due season?

    46 Happy is that servant, whom at his lord's coming unto his house he shall find so doing.

    47 Verily I say unto you, That, in truth, he shall set him over all his substance.

    48 But if such a servant shall say evilly in his heart, that his lord delayeth to come;

    49 and beginneth to smite the servants which are with him, and eateth and drinketh with the drunken;

    50 the lord of that servant shall come on a day when he expecteth not, and in an hour when he knoweth not, and shall surprise him suddenly,

    51 and appoint his portion with the hypocrites: there, shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
     
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