Matthew 12:30, and the Ignorant

newton3005

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Matthew 12:30 starts off by saying “Whoever is not with me is against me...” At first glance this implies an either-or, with no in-between. Where does that leave the ignorant, who never heard of God and His Son? Are they against God, since because of their ignorance they haven’t had any opportunity to expressly take a side?

John 3:16-17 says “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” Does that mean that those whom Jesus and his disciples had yet to reach were, through their ignorance, against God? Is there no in-between level of uncertainty, either expressed or implied, as to which side to take? Is one’s ignorance of God then not an excuse, as it isn’t in matters of civil law?

Jesus and his disciples were on a mission to spread the word of God to those who don’t know of God. Can it be said that until those people accepted God, they were against Him? Notably, when Jesus was on the cross and the Roman soldiers were fighting over his garments, Jesus, in referring to them whom we can judge to be ignorant of God, says in Luke 23:34 “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” Also notably, referring to a response to one of my previous posts concerning forgiveness, those soldiers didn’t ask for it first; Jesus asks on their behalf.

But it seems that under Jesus’ axiom expressed in Matthew 12:30 above, they were against God because of their ignorance, notwithstanding their role in Jesus’ crucifixion. Seems that forgiveness may serve as an equalizer, mitigating one’s ignorance of God that what? Should not be deemed to be permanent if forgiveness is put into the equation?

If you as a Christian lived in a Muslim neighborhood, would you believe the Muslims to be against God because they don’t worship Him the way you do, under the presumption that because they don’t worship like you then they are against Christianity? Some of the Crusaders took that position when they went to war against the Muslims. Some of the other Crusaders even carried a rampage against the Jews. For those Crusaders, forgiveness wasn’t in their vocabulary. The Muslims, BTW, worship the same God that Christians do, except they came away with different teachings. In the Quran, Jesus is mentioned more times than Mohammed, and many of the people in the Bible who are considered to be righteous, are also considered to be righteous in the Quran, including Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses AND JESUS.

But going back to the Christian who lives in a Muslim neighborhood...Is he to believe, within his realm of understanding which may not be as sharp as others, that because his Muslim neighbors go to a mosque instead of a church, they are against God as he knows? But what does Jesus say about loving your neighbor? He says to love your neighbor as you love yourself, and if any reason to do so is necessary, it’s because Jesus says your neighbor is someone who could help you in your time of need. Ironically, your neighbor, whoever they are, would be considered to be for God if they help you!
 

eleos1954

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Matthew 12:30 starts off by saying “Whoever is not with me is against me...” At first glance this implies an either-or, with no in-between. Where does that leave the ignorant, who never heard of God and His Son? Are they against God, since because of their ignorance they haven’t had any opportunity to expressly take a side?

John 3:16-17 says “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” Does that mean that those whom Jesus and his disciples had yet to reach were, through their ignorance, against God? Is there no in-between level of uncertainty, either expressed or implied, as to which side to take? Is one’s ignorance of God then not an excuse, as it isn’t in matters of civil law?

Jesus and his disciples were on a mission to spread the word of God to those who don’t know of God. Can it be said that until those people accepted God, they were against Him? Notably, when Jesus was on the cross and the Roman soldiers were fighting over his garments, Jesus, in referring to them whom we can judge to be ignorant of God, says in Luke 23:34 “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” Also notably, referring to a response to one of my previous posts concerning forgiveness, those soldiers didn’t ask for it first; Jesus asks on their behalf.

But it seems that under Jesus’ axiom expressed in Matthew 12:30 above, they were against God because of their ignorance, notwithstanding their role in Jesus’ crucifixion. Seems that forgiveness may serve as an equalizer, mitigating one’s ignorance of God that what? Should not be deemed to be permanent if forgiveness is put into the equation?

If you as a Christian lived in a Muslim neighborhood, would you believe the Muslims to be against God because they don’t worship Him the way you do, under the presumption that because they don’t worship like you then they are against Christianity? Some of the Crusaders took that position when they went to war against the Muslims. Some of the other Crusaders even carried a rampage against the Jews. For those Crusaders, forgiveness wasn’t in their vocabulary. The Muslims, BTW, worship the same God that Christians do, except they came away with different teachings. In the Quran, Jesus is mentioned more times than Mohammed, and many of the people in the Bible who are considered to be righteous, are also considered to be righteous in the Quran, including Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses AND JESUS.

But going back to the Christian who lives in a Muslim neighborhood...Is he to believe, within his realm of understanding which may not be as sharp as others, that because his Muslim neighbors go to a mosque instead of a church, they are against God as he knows? But what does Jesus say about loving your neighbor? He says to love your neighbor as you love yourself, and if any reason to do so is necessary, it’s because Jesus says your neighbor is someone who could help you in your time of need. Ironically, your neighbor, whoever they are, would be considered to be for God if they help you!

The Muslims, BTW, worship the same God that Christians do, except they came away with different teachings

Jesus IS God. non-converted Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet not God in the flesh. So no, they do not worship the same God. They teach that Jesus was a prophet and not God in the flesh.
 
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zoidar

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Matthew 12:30 starts off by saying “Whoever is not with me is against me...” At first glance this implies an either-or, with no in-between. Where does that leave the ignorant, who never heard of God and His Son? Are they against God, since because of their ignorance they haven’t had any opportunity to expressly take a side?

John 3:16-17 says “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” Does that mean that those whom Jesus and his disciples had yet to reach were, through their ignorance, against God? Is there no in-between level of uncertainty, either expressed or implied, as to which side to take? Is one’s ignorance of God then not an excuse, as it isn’t in matters of civil law?

Jesus and his disciples were on a mission to spread the word of God to those who don’t know of God. Can it be said that until those people accepted God, they were against Him? Notably, when Jesus was on the cross and the Roman soldiers were fighting over his garments, Jesus, in referring to them whom we can judge to be ignorant of God, says in Luke 23:34 “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” Also notably, referring to a response to one of my previous posts concerning forgiveness, those soldiers didn’t ask for it first; Jesus asks on their behalf.

But it seems that under Jesus’ axiom expressed in Matthew 12:30 above, they were against God because of their ignorance, notwithstanding their role in Jesus’ crucifixion. Seems that forgiveness may serve as an equalizer, mitigating one’s ignorance of God that what? Should not be deemed to be permanent if forgiveness is put into the equation?

If you as a Christian lived in a Muslim neighborhood, would you believe the Muslims to be against God because they don’t worship Him the way you do, under the presumption that because they don’t worship like you then they are against Christianity? Some of the Crusaders took that position when they went to war against the Muslims. Some of the other Crusaders even carried a rampage against the Jews. For those Crusaders, forgiveness wasn’t in their vocabulary. The Muslims, BTW, worship the same God that Christians do, except they came away with different teachings. In the Quran, Jesus is mentioned more times than Mohammed, and many of the people in the Bible who are considered to be righteous, are also considered to be righteous in the Quran, including Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses AND JESUS.

But going back to the Christian who lives in a Muslim neighborhood...Is he to believe, within his realm of understanding which may not be as sharp as others, that because his Muslim neighbors go to a mosque instead of a church, they are against God as he knows? But what does Jesus say about loving your neighbor? He says to love your neighbor as you love yourself, and if any reason to do so is necessary, it’s because Jesus says your neighbor is someone who could help you in your time of need. Ironically, your neighbor, whoever they are, would be considered to be for God if they help you!

I think Matthew 12:30 was directed to those that heard him, yet denied him. But It's a general truth since everyone who doesn't believe in him is a natural enemy, since all men are sinners in Adam. There is only one remedy to sin, the cross of Christ.

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
— Ephesians 2:1-5


Even if Muslims try to worship the same God, they fail since they deny Christ as Lord and him as the only way to salvation. The way to worship God is through His Son.
 
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SkyWriting

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I think Matthew 12:30 was directed to those that heard him, yet denied him. But It's a general truth since everyone who doesn't believe in him is a natural enemy, since all men are sinners in Adam. There is only one remedy to sin, the cross of Christ.

A tree actually. His death actually. His promise actually. Faith actually.
 
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