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Matt 26:64 High Priest "ye shall be seeing Son of Man upon clouds of the heaven"

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by LittleLambofJesus, Oct 1, 2019.

  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    I have a question about these scripture passages.
    Jesus exclaims to the High Priest that he would see Jesus coming on the clouds of the heaven.

    Thanks for any input.

    [Neither Luke nor John use plural clouds]

    Matt 26:
    63 Yet Jesus was silent.
    And the high priest answering said to Him, “I am putting under oath<1844> Thee according of the living God that to us Thou may be saying if Thou are being the Christ, the Son of the God.”
    64 “Jesus is saying to him "thou say”.
    “Moreover I am saying to ye, from present ye shall be seeing the Son of the Man sitting out of the rights of the Power and coming upon the clouds of the heaven.

    65 Then the High Priest rents his garments saying that, “He blasphemes!
    What still need we are having of witnesses? Look! now ye hear the blasphemy of Him.
    66 What to ye is seeming?”
    Yet answering they said “He is deserving of death.

    Mark 14:
    61 But Jesus was silent and not answers nothing.
    Again the high priest questioned Him and is saying to Him, “Thou are being the Christ, the Son of the God, the Blessed One?”
    62 Yet Jesus said “I AM"
    “and ye shall be seeing the Son of the Man sitting out of the rights of the Power and coming with the clouds of the heaven.”

    63 The yet High Priest rent his clothes saying “What further need still we are having of witnesses?
    64 Behold! now ye hear the blasphemy.
    What to ye is appearing? the yet they all condemn Him liable to be of death
    ==================================
    Revelation 1:7
    Behold! He is coming with the clouds, and shall-be-seeing/oyetai <3700> (5695) Him Every eye/ofqalmoV <3788> , even who any Him they pierce.
    And shall be bewailing over Him all the Tribes of the Land. Yea Amen.
    [Jeremiah 4:13/Zech 12:10]
     
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  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    For one thing a high percentage of near death expereincers report reviewing their lives with Messiah Yeshua -Jesus. That sure fits with:

    John 5:22 "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"

    3. The Life Review of Howard Storm


    I also believe that a day is coming when the feet of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus will again stand on the Mt. of Olives at which point predictions in Zechariah will come to pass.

    Zechariah 14


    4 Behold, a day of Jehovah cometh, when thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

    2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

    3 Then shall Jehovah go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

    4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east; and the mount of Olives shall be cleft in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

    5 And ye shall flee by the valley of my mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azel; yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah; and Jehovah my God shall come, and all the holy ones with thee.
     
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  3. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Jews are paying high prices to be buried as close as possible to the top of the Mount of Olives in order to gain an early resurrection !! (so I am told)
     
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  4. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    I just saw an article on that.
    Is that where the graves were opened up after the crucifixion of Jesus?

    =============================
    Jerusalem’s Mount of Olives cemetery running out of room | The Star

    JERUSALEM—For the past 3,000 years, Jewish families have been bringing their dead to the Mount of Olives cemetery.
    A maze of hillside tombs, this graveyard is the holiest place for those in the Jewish faith to be laid to rest.
    Many Jews believe that when the Messiah comes to Earth riding on a white donkey, the dead will rise from their graves and walk to the holy Temple Mount in Jerusalem’s Old City.
    From the Mount of Olives cemetery, that’s only a few hundred metres.
    “Everyone in that cemetery is buried with their feet facing the Temple Mount so they come straight up and don’t even have to turn around. No one is going to get confused on the walk,” said Ira Rappaport, 67, who moved from New York to Israel 41 years ago and whose parents are buried in the cemetery.
    ========================================

    ========================
    =====================
    An interesting vid concerning the graves at MofO and "stones crying out". I had always wondered about that verse as I was assuming Jesus was talking about the stones of the Temple......

    ............................
    Matthew 26:64 “Jesus is saying to him "thou say”.
    “Moreover I am saying to ye, from present ye shall be seeing the Son of the Man sitting out of the rights of the Power and coming upon the clouds of the heaven.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  5. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Yes the Jews are awaiting the first coming and the Church is waiting for the second coming. Both arrivals are centred on the Mount of Olives and there is an expectation of resurrection from the dead in both cases.
     
  6. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Matt 24:6 wasn't talking about wars 2000 yrs in the future, but the come Jewish Wars of the 1st century, pre 70AD...........

    Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread
    Matt 24:6 Wars and Rumors of Wars


    Matthew 24:6

    “Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not troubled, for is binding to becoming,but not as yet the End<5056>

    Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

    CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

    CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

    Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
    Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
    Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
    Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
    Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
    Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
    Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
    ============================
    Jesus, the Son of Man, was LITERALLY Seen in the Clouds in A.D. 66 - Revelation Revolution


    Jesus, the Son of Man, was LITERALLY Seen in the Clouds in A.D. 66


    The following may seem unbelievable. However, all information below is taken from unbiased historical records and is easily verifiable. Sources are also listed at the bottom of the page.

    the Parousia–“You will see the Son of Man . . . coming on the Clouds of Heaven”: In Mark 14:61-62 and John 21:22-23, Jesus declares that the High Priest Caiaphas and the Apostle John will live to see the Second Coming.
    In Mark 14:61-62, Jesus declares that the high priest who delivered him over to the Romans for execution will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven. Then in John 21:22-23, Jesus says that the Apostle John will remain alive until His return. Jesus also promised to return within His generation in Matthew 16:27-28, Matthew 24 and Mark 8:38-9:1. Because of statements like these, the disciples all believed that Jesus would return within many of their lifetimes.

    You will see the Son of Man . . . coming on the Clouds of Heaven”: The Second Coming is described in Revelation 19:11-14. Here Jesus leads an Army of Angels in the Sky.
    The second coming is described in detail in Revelation 19:11-14. Here, Jesus rides a white horse leading an army of angels on horseback on the clouds.
    ====================================
    Can clouds also symbolize horses and invading armies..........?

    Jeremiah 4:13-14
    Behold, he shall come up AS CLOUDS, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled. O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?

    Both Peter and Jude show clouds symbolizing people, which I take as the 1st century corrupt murderous Judean Rulers and their followers.

    2Pe 2:17
    These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
    Jde 1:12
    These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about[fn] by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots;

    [​IMG]

    TO BE CONTINUED
     
  7. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Do the Jews realize that after the 1st coming then the wrath comes upon them?

    "DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

    Isaiah 61:2
    To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Yahweh,
    And the day of vengeance<5359> of our 'Elohiym, To comfort all mourners.

    Luke 4:
    17 the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. Unrolling it, He found the place where it was written:
    21 and He began by saying, Today this Scripture is fulfilled<4137> in your hearing.”

    Isaiah 61:2
    To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Yahweh,
    And the day of vengeance<5359> of our 'Elohiym, To comfort all mourners.

    Luke 21:
    22 That days of vengeance<1557> these are, of the to be fulfilled<4130> all the having been written
    23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
    For there will be great Distress in the land and Wrath<3709> upon this people.

    1 Thessalonians 2:
    15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted<1559> us, and they do not please God and are contrary to all men,
    16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved; to fill up their sins always: but the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

    Revelation 19:2
    “For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication;
    and He has avenged<1556> on her the blood of His servants shed by her.”
     
  8. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    One thing I learned while in Israel was there are many believers in Jesus among the Jews in Israel these days.
    Some keep it quiet among themselves, some declare it openly at great cost.
     
  9. Matt5

    Matt5 Member

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    I think that is critical and important information for people at the end-time. You see Jesus comes back but not on the clouds. This is the Islamic Jesus who is the side-kick of the Mahdi, aka Antichrist. The Islamic Jesus fools people by doing miracles. He fools the foolish virgins so that they join Islam. A few years later the real Jesus comes back on the clouds.

    More Christians would join the foolish virgins group if they didn't know about the clouds thing.

    That Jesus returns with the Mahdi is in Islamic prophecy.
     
  10. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Islamic Jesus?
    Ummm.........ok.

    An interesting view of the "parousia" from this commentator:

    Jesus, the Son of Man, was LITERALLY Seen in the Clouds in A.D. 66 - Revelation Revolution

    Jesus, the Son of Man, was LITERALLY Seen in the Clouds in A.D. 66

    The following may seem unbelievable. However, all information below is taken from unbiased historical records and is easily verifiable. Sources are also listed at the bottom of the page.

    Preterism and the Parousia–“You will see the Son of Man . . . coming on the Clouds of Heaven”: In Mark 14:61-62 and John 21:22-23, Jesus declares that the High Priest Caiaphas and the Apostle John will live to see the Second Coming.

    In Mark 14:61-62, Jesus declares that the high priest who delivered him over to the Romans for execution will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven. Then in John 21:22-23, Jesus says that the Apostle John will remain alive until His return. Jesus also promised to return within His generation in Matthew 16:27-28, Matthew 24 and Mark 8:38-9:1. Because of statements like these, the disciples all believed that Jesus would return within many of their lifetimes.

    Preterist View of the Parousia–“You will see the Son of Man . . . coming on the Clouds of Heaven”: The Second Coming is described in Revelation 19:11-14. Here Jesus leads an Army of Angels in the Sky.

    The second coming is described in detail in Revelation 19:11-14. Here, Jesus rides a white horse leading an army of angels on horseback on the clouds.

    [​IMG]An artistic depiction of the second coming as it is described in Revelation 19

    A Preterist View of the Second Coming–“You will see the Son of Man . . . coming on the Clouds of Heaven”: The Second Coming is recorded in Roman History.

    An eerily similar event is recorded to have occurred in Iyyar of A.D. 66 at the start of the worst war in Israel’s history, Israel’s war with Rome:

    [O]n the twenty-first day of the month of Artemisius [Jyar], a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sunsetting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities.1

    [​IMG]
    An artistic depiction of the army in the clouds in A.D. 66.

    The first-century Jewish historian Josephus describes a heavenly army in the clouds much like the army Jesus leads in Revelation 19:11-14. This event is also recorded by other historians. The first-century pagan historian Tacitus also mentions this event: “In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour.”2 Pseudo-Hegesippus also describes the coming of Christ on the clouds with His mighty angels at that time when he writes, “A certain figure appeared of tremendous size, which many saw, just as the books of the Jews have disclosed, and before the setting of the sun there were suddenly seen in the clouds chariots in the clouds and armed battle arrays by which the cities of all Iudaea and its territories were invaded.”3 The medieval Jewish historian Sepher Yosippon expounds upon this angelic army in the sky of A.D. 66 by saying, “Moreover, in those days were seen chariots of fire and horsemen, a great force flying across the sky near to the ground coming against Jerusalem and all the land of Judah, all of them horses of fire and riders of fire.”4 The parallels between these three accounts and Revelation 19 are striking. However, in Yosippon’s account one can see how 2 Thessalonians 1:7 was explicitly and LITERALLY fulfilled in A.D. 66: “This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.”

    [​IMG]
    Yosippon adds the fact that this angelic army in the sky of A.D. 66 was composed of cavalry that blazed with fire LITERALLY fulfilling 2 Thessalonians 1:7: “This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.”
    =================================
    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
    Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
    Also see:
    Rapture refuted

    [6] - Josephus has collected the chief of these portents together, and introduces his account by a reflection on the strangeness of that infatuation, which could induce his countrymen to give credit to impostors, and unfounded reports, whilst they disregarded the divine admonitions, confirmed, as he asserts they Were, by the following extraordinary signs :

    1. "A meteor, resembling a sword, [7] hung over Jerusalem during one whole year."

    2. "On the eighth of the month Zanthicus, (before the feast of unleavened bread) at the ninth hour of the night, there shone round about the altar, and the circumjacent buildings of the temple, a light equal to the brightness of the day, which continued for the space of half an hour."

    3. "As the High Priest were leading a heifer to the altar to be sacrificed, she brought forth a lamb, in the midst of the temple."

    4 "' About the sixth hour of the night, the eastern gate of the temple was seen to open without human assistance."

    5. "Soon after the feast of the Passover, in various parts of the country, before the Setting of the sun, chariots and armed men were seen in the air, passing round about Jerusalem. "

    6. "At the subsequent feast of Pentecost, while the priests were going, by night, into the inner, temple to perform their customary ministrations, they first felt, as they said, a shaking, accompanied by an indistinct murmuring, and afterwards voices as of a multitude, saying, in a distinct and earnest manner, "LET US DEPART HENCE."

    7. As the last and most fearful omen, Josephus relates that one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a rustic of the lower class, during the Feast of Tabernacles, suddenly exclaimed in the temple, "A voice from the east a voice from the west -- a voice from the four winds- a voice against Jerusalem and the temple -- a voice against bridegrooms and brides -- a voice against the whole people !"
    ==============================

    TO BE CONTINUED
     
  11. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Continuing........

    A Realized Eschatological View of the Second Coming–The Coming of the Lord Described:
    Yosippon’s Description of the Angelic Army of Fire in the Sky in A.D. 66 fulfills descriptions of the Coming of the Lord in Isaiah 66:15, Psalm 68:17 and Habakkuk 3:1-8 in a Surprisingly Literal Way.


    The coming of Christ in the presence of fiery angels riding horses and chariots recorded in A.D. 66 and predicted in 2 Thessalonians mirrors the coming of the Lord in Isaiah 66:15 in a surprisingly literal way: “For behold, the Lord will come in fire and His chariots like the whirlwind, to render His anger with fury, and His rebuke with flames of fire.” Descriptions of the coming of the Lord in judgment in Psalm 68:17 and Habakkuk 3:1-8 are also described in a similar fashion. Interestingly, the fiery army of angelic horsemen and charioteers of A.D. 66 was not the first time a specter like this was recorded in Israel.

    Covenant Eschatology and the Parousia–The Second Coming Described:
    Yosippon’s Description of the Angelic Army of Fire in the Sky in A.D. 66 EXACTLY Mirrors the Army of Angels of Fire described in 2 Kings 6:17.


    In 2 Kings 6:17 Elisha is protected by an army of angels like those who were expected to accompany Jesus during the second coming. This fiery army of angels is described exactly as the army of horsemen, horses and chariots of fire recorded by Yosippon. 2 Kings 6:17 reads, “And Elisha prayed, ‘Open his eyes, Lord, so that he may see.’ Then the Lord opened the servant’s eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.” Notice that in both cases an army of angelic horsemen appeared as horsemen and chariots of fire.
    =======================

    To be continued.................
     
  12. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    ==================================

    A Realized Eschatological View of the Parousia–The Parousia Described: According to Acts 9:3-6 and Revelation 1:13-16, Jesus’ Resurrection Body was Further Glorified after His Ascension into Heaven such that it Beamed with Radiance like Blazing Fire. Thus Jesus’ Body took on a Form similar to that of the Angels of Heaven according to 2 Kings 6:17, 2 Corinthians 11:14 and Matthew 28:2-3.


    Why did the angels of 2 Kings 6:17 and those described by Yosippon in A.D. 66 appear as beings of fire? And why does 2 Thessalonians 1:7 imply that Jesus was to take on a form like that of blazing fire during His second coming? Though Jesus’ resurrection body strongly resembled His physical body while He was still on earth, this appears to have changed after Jesus ascended into heaven in Acts 1 (Acts 9:3-6, Revelation 1:13-16). After His ascension, Jesus’ body as it is described throughout the remainder of the Bible closely resembles Biblical descriptions of the heavenly Father and other beings in heaven—beaming with fiery brilliance. In Ezekiel 1:26-28, Ezekiel describes a vision of God in which, like descriptions of Jesus in Acts 9:3-6 and Revelation 1:13-16, God is said to shine with glorious brilliance:

    Above the vault over their heads was what looked like a throne of lapis lazuli, and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man. I saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal, as if full of fire, and that from there down he looked like fire; and brilliant light surrounded him. Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord [emphasis mine].

    The angels of heaven are also depicted in a similar manner according to 2 Kings 6:17, Matthew 28:2-3 and 2 Corinthians 11:14. Matthew 28:2-3 reads, “[A]n angel of the Lord descended from heaven . . . his appearance was like lightning[.]” 2 Corinthians 11:14 echoes Matthew 28:2-3: “And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.” Christ’s body after having risen to heaven is pictured with similar fiery luminescence:

    [A]nd among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance (Revelation 1:13-16).”

    [​IMG]
    After his ascension into heaven, Jesus’ resurrection body was further glorified according to Revelation 1:13-16 such that it resembled the image of the Father and the heavenly host—shinning like blazing fire.

    The burning brightness of Christ’s resurrection body after His ascension is also mentioned in Acts 9:3-6 where Paul is temporarily blinded after seeing the immense radiance that was the post-ascended Christ.

    Notice that Yosippon states that the horses seen in the sky were horses of fire whereas Revelation 19:14 says that the angels rode white horses during the parousia, is this a contradiction? No. Many people who have had revelatory near-death experiences (NDE’s) state that beings in the highest heavenly realms exude brilliant white light. Thus the horses described by Yosippon would have also likely shown in a brilliant white light like that of other beings in heaven.

    [​IMG]
    The transfiguration
    =============================================
     
  13. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    continued....

    Transfiguration mentioned:
    Preterism, The Parousia Described:
    2 Peter 1:16-18 indicates that the Transfiguration was a Model of the Parousia. This Fact is Confirmed by Yosippon who describes what appears to be the Coming of Christ on the Clouds in a Radiant Form similar to the Description of Christ during the Transfiguration.

    The fact that Jesus was expected to appear in the radiant glory of His post-ascension resurrection body at the time of the parousia is also implied in 2 Peter 1:16-18:

    For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming [parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, ‘This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased’— and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

    2 Peter 1:16-18 is a description of the transfiguration. During the transfiguration, Jesus appeared to the disciples in the likeness of a being of light. (Matthew 17, Mark 9, Luke 9) What is interesting about this description of the transfiguration is that the Greek word translated coming in v. 16 is parousia, the same word often used to refer to the second coming throughout the New Testament. The fact that Peter uses the word parousia to describe the moment in which Jesus was transformed into a being of light implies that Peter may have seen the transfiguration as a visionary shadow or model of the parousia, the second coming. The fact that the transfiguration in which Jesus appeared in bright, radiant glory may be a kind of model of the second coming seems to be confirmed by Yosippon’s description of the fiery army in the clouds of A.D. 66. At this time Jesus appeared in fiery radiance in the clouds of heaven bearing the same luminescent likeness of His body at the transfiguration in confirmation of 2 Peter 1:16-18.

    It should also be noted that this is not the only way in which the transfiguration was a model of the second coming. According to Matthew 17:5 the Glory Cloud also appeared in the midst of the transfiguration: “While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, ‘This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!’” This bright cloud is the Glory Cloud, the quintessential sign of the presence of God.
    For historical evidence of the presence of the Glory Cloud in A.D. 68 and A.D. 70 see The Appearance of Christ in A.D. 68? and The Coming of Christ in A.D. 70–Like You’ve Never Heard it Before!.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Hello mkgal.
    I have not read much of Hank H. Thanks for bringing him up.............
     
  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Matthew 24:3
    Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
    when shall these be?
    and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-consummation<4930> of the Age?

    Robert Roberts : The Signs of the Son of Man's Presence at the Destruction of Jerusalem. (1855) Free Online Books

    The Signs of the Son of Man's Presence at the Destruction of Jerusalem.
    By Robert Roberts
    Jan. 16, 1855.

    These two judgment days are covered by the oracle contained in the prophecy of the Seventy Weeks. The judgment of Judah and Jerusalem is there predicted in these words: "the Prince's people coming shall destroy the City and the Temple; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and to the end of the war desolations are decreed." The same judgment is also foretold in Daniel 7:10-12, saying, "The Little Horn of the Goat waxed great above the army of the heavens; and it cast down of the army and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. And it magnified itself above the Commander of the army, and by it the daily was taken away, and the foundation of its holy place was cast down. And an army was given against the Daily because of rebellion, and it cast down the Truth to the ground; and it practiced and prospered." And in verse twenty-three of the same chapter, "When the transgressors are come to the full, a king (Moses styles the power--"a nation") of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences (Moses says, "whose tongue Israel should not understand"), shall stand up (or be brought against them). And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power; and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper and practice, and shall destroy multitudes, even the people of the holy ones." This was the "abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet" that was to "stand on the holy land," encompassing Jerusalem with its armies, to which Jesus referred, saying, "When you see this, then let them which be in Judea flee unto the mountains; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written (against Judah's Commonwealth) may be fulfilled. For there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people"--"great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the State to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh (of Judah's race) be saved; but on account of the chosen, those days shall be shortened."

    The judgment upon the Gentile powers is thus spoken of by Daniel in the prophecy of the Seventy Weeks: "That determined shall be poured upon the Desolator." The words are few, but full of terrible import. What is that which is determined? This question opens up the details of "the judgement written," to execute which "is the honor of all God's saints." The present Desolator is the Turk; but the Desolator contemporary with the judgment is Gog, who succeeds the Turk in hostility to the peace and welfare of Judah and Jerusalem.

    Gog is the last dynasty destined to occupy the throne of the Little Horn of the Goat, which represents a power common to Daniel's third and fourth beasts; and consists in taking away the dominion of three of them, and in destroying the body politic of the fourth with fire and sword. The systems represented by these four beasts, the fourth of which is comprehensive of the Dragon, the Ten Horned and Two-Horned Beasts, Image of the Beast, and the False Prophet of the Apocalypse; these all occupy "the court of the Gentiles" for the times thereof appointed. When these times are fulfilled, the hour of their judgment comes; and, if that of Judah and Jerusalem was terrible, that of the Gentiles shall be more so. Judah's tribulation at the hand of the Roman Horn of the Goat, was greater than anything that had befallen them since the foundation of their commonwealth; but the trouble that awaits the powers of the Gentile heavens and the nations over which they rule, is such as the history of the world from the confusion of human speech to that same time, can afford no adequate idea; for the hour of their judgement is "the great and the terrible day of the Lord."

    Between these two judgments, 1783 years have hitherto elapsed. A few more years have yet to expire ere the second judgment arrive. The beginning and ending of this long period is marked by the fall and rising again of Jerusalem; and its course by the calamities of Judah and the prostration of their city as expressed in the words of Jesus, saying, "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, UNTIL the Times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."

    Having fixed the attention of his disciples upon the end of the times allotted to the nations for their ascendancy over Judah and Jerusalem, the Lord Jesus informed them that at that crisis "Signs shall be in the sun, and moon, and stars, and upon the earth distress of nations in perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them for fear and anticipation of the events coming upon the habitable; for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And at that epoch they (Judah) shall see the Son of Man coming in cloud with power and great glory."--Matt. 26:64................

    The attaining to this "end," without apostasy from the faith, hope, and walk of the kingdom's gospel, was a work that tried the reclaimed sheep of the house of Israel to the utmost; for even "children would rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death;" and as to the apostles, they would be hated of all on account of their testimony for the name of Jesus. "But," said he, "he that endureth to the end shall be saved."...........................

    The Roman Horn of the Goat was the agent of him whose name is, "The who is, the who was, and the who is to come." When therefore that power went against Judea, the Divine Name came against it, and the Romans were for the time being "the people of the Prince" of Judah. The Lord Jesus was as literally present at the overthrow of their commonwealth, as he was present and near to Paul a few minutes before he threw him to the ground, and demanded why he persecuted him? He was present, but not seen by Paul and his companions, nevertheless they felt his power. The operations of the siege and destruction of Jerusalem were under his directions; hence, that unaccountable interruption of the siege, in which for no obvious cause the Romans drew off their army from the city, and afforded the faithful in Christ an opportunity to "depart out of it."

    But, it may be inquired, How do you know that Jesus was present at the siege in the absence of the testimony of eye-witnesses? I answer, because Jesus declared he world be present at the end of the age. The subject of the Mount Olivet discourse was the parousia and the erchomenos of Jesus. The word parousia signifies "presence," or being nigh to; from pareimi, nigh to, and I am; and is used in connection with the sunteleia tou aionos, "The end of the age" related to the Mosaic Law. Jesus reproduces Daniel's prophecy of the destruction of the temple, saying, "There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." This was in effect proclaiming the end of the age when read in connection with the declaration that Jerusalem should thenceforth be trodden down of the nations until their times be fulfilled; at the end of which times, the city should see him again, and hail him the blessed of the Lord. The disciples, who were Jews, understood it thus; and therefore they said to him, "Tell us when shall these things be? And what the sign of thy being nigh, and of the end of the age?" The sign of his parousia, or being nigh, was also the sign of the end of the age; and this was the sign--the abomination of desolation standing on holy ground, or as Mark expresses it, "Standing where it ought not," as foretold by Daniel. Luke expresses the sign with less ambiguity--"When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof draweth nigh." This was "the sign" to that generation of the parousia or nighness of Jesus, and of the end of an age or dispensation, or cycle, that could not exist without the temple.

    For like the lightning, the sign would break forth from the east and proceed westward against Jerusalem; "so," said he, "shall the parousia, or nearness of the Son of Man be:" and here is the reason why it shall be so; "for," continues he, "wheresoever the carcass (or body politic of Judah) is, there will the eagles (of Rome) be gathered together"--that is, according to the history, Titus at the head of the Roman Legions of the East should compass Jerusalem, for the purpose of destroying it.

    The parousia, or proximity, of the Son of Man to Jerusalem in the crisis of its overthrow was to be in the lifetime of that generation, according to the words of Jesus, who said, "This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled." But of the precise time when the temple should disappear, and the Mosaic Economy "vanish away," the Father only could tell; for Jesus said, "Of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only." Matt. 24:36; Mark 13:32. The disciples were permitted to know only the proximity of the judgment of Gehenna, termed in our English version "the damnation of hell." :As the days of Noah, so would the parousia of the Son of Man be;" unexpected to the faithless, but looked for by them who watched for the sign, though not knowing the hour of its approach..............................

    ................. The Twelve were commissioned to the Circumcision; so that the kosmon apanta, rendered in the Common Version "all the world," relates only to the citizens of the Commonwealth of Israel; a truth which well defines the limits of the phrase, I am with you all the days, till the consummation of the age--to the end of the age and the end of the commonwealth; two ending things, hence the word SUN teleia, for the state once had an end before in the reign of Nebuchadnezzar; but not "the age:" that did not end till the parousia of the Son of Man, when both were finished for a time.................................

    During these eight years a very lamentable state of things obtained in the churches of Judea. Many were seduced from the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and became again entangled in the pollutions of the world. They were the "perilous times of the last days" of the Mosaic economy, in which professors were "lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, implacable, devils (diaboloi), incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that were good, betrayers, heady, high-minded, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof." They maintained the form of Christianity, but the false prophets among them neutralized its power over them by their traditions, which deceived and corrupted them. They betrayed and hated one another; smote their fellow-servants, and ate and drank with the drunken in their disgusting revels. They were presumptuous and self-willed, and spoke evil of the things they did not understand. They were spots and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feasted with the faithful. Cursed children, who had forsaken the right way for the wages of unrighteousness--the scoffers of the last days, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the (fulfillment of the) promise of His parousia or proximity? What evidence is there of His being near to put and end to the age and commonwealth of Israel--"the (Mosaic) heavens and the earth which are now," A.D.. 66? For since the fathers (of the nation) fell asleep, all things continue as from the creation (of the state?)

    Such was the apostasy foretold by the Lord Jesus, which exhausted the patience of God with Judah; and caused them to be broken off as a withered branch at the destruction of their city and temple. "Many," said He, "shall be seduced (skandalist-hesontai, caused to stumble), and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of the many shall be cooled. But he who suffers patiently to the end, the same shall be saved." This state of things in the Jewish churches was a great affliction to the apostles; who saw much of the work done under their administration about to be consumed as wood, hay, and stubble--mere tares bound up in bundles to be burned in the fiery furnace of divine wrath upon the land. But they did not forget the words of the Lord Jesus, who had told them, saying, "When ye shall see all these things know that HE (the Son of Man) is nigh at the doors"--engus estin epi thurais. This nearness was His parousia, inappropriately rendered "coming" in the Common Version. They, and the gold, and silver, and precious stones, who continued steadfast in the faith, perceived it, and watched with intense solicitude for the end. For the apostles wrote to them, saying, "the end of all things hath approached: be ye therefore sober, and watch even to prayers;" "looking for and earnestly desiring the nearness of the day of God, through which, heavens being on fire shall be abolished, and elements burning, IT is dissolved--teketai, that is, the state. The judgment that was to effect this was "the baptism of fire" foretold by John the Baptist, with which the Son of Man was to baptize, overwhelm, and consume, the unfruitful trees of that viperous generation--the "unquenchable fire with which He was to burn up the chaff," or ungodly men of Judah, who lived in pleasure and wantonness on the land; and nourished their hearts for a day of slaughter. Those who remained faithful and true saw what was coming; for they were "mindful of the words before spoken by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of the apostles of the Lord and Saviour." They were therefore as rocks in the stormy sea; and not to be moved from their steadfastness in Christ, though the heavens were rolled up as a scroll, and the land became blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. They knew that the Mosaic system must vanish in a loud tumult of war and desolation--"pass away with a great noise"--before the kingdom of God, in which dwelleth righteousness, could be established; for so long as that economy continued, there could be no Melchisedec High Priest in Israel reigning over the Twelve Tribes on His father David's throne; and consequently no inheritance for them and partakers of His joy. Hence, this being the position in which they were placed by their faith, Peter wrote to them, saying, "seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that you may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless. Ye, therefore, beloved, seeing that ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away by the deceit of the lawless, fall from your own steadfastness; but grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and in the day if the age. Amen."

    Such, then, were the signs of the Son of Man's coming, and invisible presence at and before the overthrow of the Mosaic system in Judea, and which for the sake of clearness, may be summarily presented as follows:

    1. The appearance of many impostors claiming the Messiahship of Israel;

    2. Wars, and rumors of wars; famines, pestilences, and earthquakes;

    3. The appearance of many false prophets among the Christians.

    4. Apostasy to a great extent in the churches of Judea;

    5. The apostolic mission to Roman nations fully accomplished;

    6. The state of things in Judea, a fac-simile of society in the days of Noah;

    7. Jerusalem compassed with armies, or the abomination of desolation, spoken of in Dan. 7:9.

    8. Zion's sun and moon darkened; and her stars cast down to the ground, and stamped upon by the Roman horn of the goat, which thus establishes "the end."
     
  16. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Robert Roberts : The Ways of Providence (1881) Free Online Books @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism and Preterist Eschatology

    CHAPTER 24. —LAST DAYS OF JUDAH’S COMMONWEALTH

    The survey of the ways of providence would be incomplete without something more than a glance at the events attending the overthrow of Jerusalem and disruption of the Jewish polity over thirty-five years after Christ left the earth. At first sight, it might seem as if this were outside the scope of the work which aims at the illustration of the subject from Biblical narrative alone. On a further consideration, however, the matter must appear otherwise. Although we have no scriptural narrative of the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus, yet we have much scriptural forecast of that terrible event, and therefore the particulars of the event are the particulars of a divine work. So long before as the days of Moses, before Israel had entered the land, it was written—

    “The Lord shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth, a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand, . . . and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land, and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land which the Lord thy God hat given thee, and thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body—the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters which the Lord thy God hath given thee, in the siege and in the straitness wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee. . . .The Lord will rejoice over you to bring you to nought: and ye shall be plucked off the land whither thou goest to possess it, and the Lord shall scatter thee among all people”

    (Deuteronomy 28: 49-50, 52-53, 63-64).

    The Roman invasion and the horrors attendant upon it, although illustrating, in fulfilment of these words, a lesson many times exhibited in preceding pages, that a public calamity, perfectly human in all its causes and particulars, may be an occurrence of divine origin, —is nevertheless of more interest to the majority of living men on account of its nearness to our own age. For one thing, it is more fully recorded than any other event so distinctly in the category of divine transactions. By what itself seems a striking providence, Josephus, a contemporary and eye-witness of the dreadful scenes in question, in many of which he took a personal part, has left a wonderfully complete account of them—so complete and minute as to resemble the letters of a modern war correspondent more than anything in ancient literature. It is on every ground important that the reader should be acquainted with the narrative of these events. They were not only foretold by the prophets, but referred to several times by Jesus while He was on the earth. Most notably, He spoke of them in a plain discourse (Luke 21; Matthew 24) delivered to His disciples while they were seated on the Mount of Olives, and overlooking the city and temple which lay at their feet. On that occasion He told them that within that generation—(at what particular day and hour He could not tell them)—the “days of vengeance” written of in the prophets would arrive; that there would be great distress in the land and wrath among the people; that Jerusalem would be surrounded with armies, and laid in ashes, and the temple utterly demolished; and the nation destroyed by the edge of the sword.

    These things had a strong personal interest for the disciples and the generation of believers then alive. The national catastrophe might involve them in destruction. Jesus told them to flee to the mountains when they should see “Jerusalem compassed with armies,” assuring them that its overthrow and desolation were nigh at hand.

    Thus there were “signs of the times” eighteen hundred years ago. The “signs” consisted of natural occurrences of a calamitous nature, which would slowly gather over the Jewish nation. The process extended over thirty years. It began in apparently trifling incidents which, one after another, exasperated the public mind and gradually brought on the tempest which engulfed the nation. Disciples of the faithful class would observe the tokens and keep themselves in harmony with the work to be done; others would say they saw nothing divine in the public affairs of the time, but the mere natural workings of things as they had always been. The watching class would point to the drift of things as antagonistic to the Jews: the others would have it in their power to point to cases in which the Jews got the upper hand—particularly as the great crisis itself approached, when Cestius, the Roman general, was overpowered and driven out of the country, and the whole nation rose in a war of independence.

    In this respect, the signs of the times of eighteen hundred years ago presented features analogous to those of our time. It is instructive to look back and see how amid all the vicissitudes of public affairs, the day of vengeance slowly crept over Israel by natural means, and at last broke into destructive fury and obliterated almost the very existence of Israel from the earth. We shall only attempt a summary of Josephus’ narrative, and that more particularly for the benefit of those who may find Josephus’ diction too heavy and elaborate.

    The “cloud no bigger than a man’s hand” was first visible in the sky about A.D. 40—in the reign of Claudius Caesar, when Cumanus was appointed Procurator of Judea. Under him a tumult was occasioned in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, by a Roman soldier making a contemptuous gesture at the exercises of the Jews. A collision ensued between the Jews and the Roman soldiery, in which many Jews were slain.
    Afterwards a number of Jews out of Galilee, going up to Jerusalem to the Feast of Tabernacles were molested by the Samaritans, and one of the Jews slain. The Jews appealed to Cumanus for the punishment of the murderer without success. The affair becoming known at Jerusalem during the feast, caused great excitement, and a band of Jews marched to Samaria, under Eleazar, and burned several villages and slew the inhabitants. Cumanus arrived with a troop of horsemen from Caesarea, and dispersed the Jewish band, which, however, though scattered, betook themselves to acts of violence throughout the country. In several conflicts a great number of Jews were captured and crucified. A new class of troublers succeeded them, the Sicarii, who concealed daggers under their garments, with which to stab in the crowds at the feasts. Jonathan, the High Priest, fell a victim to them. Many others were slain, and great public fear was established. Another faction made its appearance among the people, pretending inspiration, and allured numbers of the Jews into the wilderness. Troubles were increased by the uprise of an Egyptian who pretended to be a prophet, and gathered as many as thirty thousand to him and attempted to break into Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives. The attempt was defeated by the Roman soldiers, and the army of the Egyptian dispersed. But after a short interval, numbers of these scattered marauders combined to agitate for Jewish independence. They incited the Jews to revolt against the Romans. Not succeeding with the respectable part of the nation, they broke up into bands and ravaged the country in all directions, plundering and murdering and burning.
     
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