Mathew 17:24,25

[Reno Raines]

Ahoy,
In these verses what does the phrase
".... take up his cross..." in 24 mean?
and the whole of Verse 25 ?
Thanks

 

[royal priest]

Jesus, in taking up His cross, laid down His life for the glory of God and the good of His people. If we are Jesus' disciple, then that will be our greatest ambition as well. (John 13:35; Matthew 10:37-39)

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

Perhaps you mean Matthew 16...


Matthew 16:23-28
But Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men." Then Jesus told His disciples, "If anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man will come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done. Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

The process taking place within/journey of our soul...being revealed inwardly. Truth high and lifted up becomes an open door (to heaven) no man can shut. The flip side of this same coin, truth cast down (as a cross dropped) becomes a bottomless pit with serpents that bite.

Jesus said the kingdom is within you and does not come by observation (with the five senses) as an over here or over there. When Jesus addressed Peter in the above scripture, it was to do with his perception and how it relates to our soul...where we are 'seeing'/perceiving from...

 

[dreadnought]

Ahoy,
In these verses what does the phrase
".... take up his cross..." in 24 mean?
and the whole of Verse 25 ?
Thanks

I think you are referring to Matthew 16, not 17.

 

[dreadnought]

Ahoy,
In these verses what does the phrase
".... take up his cross..." in 24 mean?
and the whole of Verse 25 ?
Thanks

The verses in question:

[24] Then Jesus told his disciples, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
[25] For whoever would save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. Matt 16:24-25 RSV

The cross represents the Lord’s crucifixion, so the phrase would seem to indicate we must accept the suffering that accompanies a life with Jesus.

Some people make a big deal of this, like there is tremendous suffering involved in being a Christian. I think, though, the opposite is true. There is suffering, but the Lord leads us away from the suffering.

As for verse 25, only the Lord knows the path to happiness. If we give up what we have and follow him, we will be led to that happiness.

 

[Reno Raines]

Thanks ,
Dreadnaught, what do you mean "the lord leads us away from the suffering"?

 

[dreadnought]

Thanks ,
Dreadnaught, what do you mean "the lord leads us away from the suffering"?

I think in truth we bring our difficulties on ourselves. The Lord leads us out of those difficulties. He solves our problems for us.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

As Moses' serpent on a pole was to Israel in the desert, so is Christ on the cross to us...the antidote for the bite of a serpent. Moses' rod lifted up brought victory against the enemies of Israel...so it is when we hold truth high and lifted up...which is to carry a cross and follow after The Son...being an inward, spiritual truth...

 

[Reno Raines]

"He solves our problems for us "
So any problem we have we should just trust the outside to god?
I apologize, but looking at all the problems we have in the world this sounds strange to me. If everyone in the world had this mindset...

 

[dreadnought]

"He solves our problems for us "
So any problem we have we should just trust the outside to god?
I apologize, but looking at all the problems we have in the world this sounds strange to me. If everyone in the world had this mindset...

The Lord will tell you the answer to your problems. It's up to you to be listening.

 

[Exinanition]

Ahoy,
In these verses what does the phrase
".... take up his cross..." in 24 mean?
and the whole of Verse 25 ?
Thanks

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" -Matthew 16:24-26

I included verse 26 in this quotation because it is vital to understanding the context of verses twenty-four and twenty-five. Our Lord is speaking here of being ready and willing to lay down your life, literally to die, for the sake of God's glory and for the blessing of being in His glorious kingdom eternally. When Jesus said, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me...," he was saying just as he, himself, was willing to lay down his own life for the sake of God's glory, anyone who desires to follow him must also be willing to follow him all the way to the cross if that is what God's will is for him. Jesus is saying we must be ready to suffer anything, even death, for his sake and for the glory of God.

Adam Clarke said it like this:

"The principles of the Christian life are:
First. To have a sincere desire to belong to Christ - If any man be Willing to be my disciple, etc.
Secondly. To renounce self-dependence, and selfish pursuits - Let him deny Himself.
Thirdly. To embrace the condition which God has appointed, and bear the troubles and difficulties he may meet with in walking the Christian road - Let him take up His Cross.
Fourthly. To imitate Jesus, and do and suffer all in his spirit - Let him Follow Me."

Jesus is saying do not worry about your life; just as he said also in the sermon on the mount:

"Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?"
"Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself." -Matthew 6:25, 31-34b

What Jesus was saying here to Peter and to us today is that the life he offers to all is of greater value than the life we have here and now. In the resurrection believers will experience new, perfected bodies which neither perish nor are corruptible and they will live in the presence of God the Father and Jesus the Son. There will be no more pain. God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will be perfect union between man and God. They will be His people and He will be their God. There will be nothing evil there. There will be no sickness. There will be no sadness. There will be eternal glory in the presence of the One Who is Glory itself!

As the apostle Paul so aptly stated:

"But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable."

"And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die." -1 Corinthians 13-19, 15:30-32

The cross was, plainly and simply, an instrument of death. It served no other purpose. For a man to "take up his cross and follow" Jesus meant to be willing to die for the cause of Christ. Jesus is saying if we are not willing to die for this, Christ's cause, we are not fit for the kingdom of God.

"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it..." If a man be not willing to die for the cause of Christ he will not inherit eternal life in Christ. If one would deny Christ in order to preserve his life here on earth he will forfeit eternity in the kingdom of God. Consider again the words of Jesus Christ:

"Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God." -Luke 12:8-9

"...and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." God rewards faithfulness towards Him. The one who would lay down his life for the sake of the kingdom of God and as a testimony to the righteousness and glory of God will inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God. This is God's promise in Christ to all who are faithful to the call of Christ.

"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" Again, we have here Christ reiterating the incomparable disparity between life here and eternal life in the Father's kingdom.

I sincerely hope this serves to help anyone struggling with the meaning of these verses. Doctrinally speaking, it is of utmost import that the Christian understand these verses correctly; for his very salvation and his eternal destination rest upon a correct understanding of them.

I wish you all a blessed day and...

 

[Reno Raines]

Examination, thanks for your detailed reply! Very interesting.
One question: what does `the Resurrection` mean?

 

[Exinanition]

Greetings to you, Reno Raines. I hope you are well today. I was wondering just what you wanted to know about the resurrection. It is a monumental subject. Were you wanting to know what the word "resurrection" means or are you wondering about the ramifications of the resurrection of Jesus, or even what it means to believers? I am not certain just what you are wanting to know. I will watch for your response and get back to you as quickly as I am able.

P.S. on a friendly note...my name is Exinanition not Examination. lol

Blessings to you and...

 

[Reno Raines]

yes. What does the word mean for believers?

 

[Exinanition]

yes. What does the word mean for believers?

Reno Raines, I apologize for taking so long to get back to you on this. My whole family and I have been sick for a while and none of us has felt much like doing anything. Again, I apologize to you for taking so long.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead is THE central truth upon which everything we as believers in Jesus rests. Simply put, if the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead is not true, then nothing else matters. The apostle Paul put it this way:


“But if Christ is proclaimed, that He was raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, neither has Christ been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our proclamation is worthless, and your faith is also worthless. And we are also found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified of God that He raised Christ; whom He did not raise if the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ is not raised. And if Christ is not raised, your faith is foolish; you are yet in your sins. Then also those that fell asleep in Christ were lost. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruit of those who slept. For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming; then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power. for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet. The last enemy made to cease is death.

If according to man I fought with beasts in Ephesus, what advantage is to me if the dead are not raised? ‘Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!’” -1 Corinthians 15:12-26, 32


That line, “If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable,” pretty much sums up what I am attempting to say. As believers in Jesus Christ we have fellowship with God in this life; however, we have not, as yet, experienced reunion with God. Reunion with God comes in the next life. The next life comes after the resurrection of the dead. Herein is where the hope of the believer rests. Why do we, indeed, why should we, suffer for Christ in this life if there is no reunion with God in the next? Again, as Paul said,

“Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”

Even Shakespeare understood the futility of this life if nothing follows there upon. The famous soliloquy from “Hamlet” expresses the hopelessness of living and suffering in this life if nothing better should follow (although he is afraid that something worse may follow).


"To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, ‘tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish’d. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there’s the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there’s the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law’s delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death
The undiscover’d country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all…"

To be certain, Shakespeare is NOT speaking of the resurrection of Jesus Christ; however, he is speaking of the nugatoriness, the worthlessness, the utter futility of this life. Hamlet here was pondering suicide only to discover he had not the courage to follow through with it because of his fear of what may lie on the other side of this life. He feared it may be yet worse than the hopelessness, the disparity, the misery and despondency of this life. Believers in Christ Jesus do not have this dread fear of death because we KNOW what awaits us when our lives here are over. We go immediately to be with our Father in heaven, our precious Redeemer and Savior, and the Holy Spirit of God where


“…God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. And there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out, nor will there be any more pain; for the first things passed away. And He sitting on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new…” –Revelation 21:4-5a


Without the resurrection, Reno, we have no hope. Without the resurrection we cannot believe anything else Jesus ever said because...


“Jesus said to her (Martha, sister of Lazarus), I am the resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.” –John 11:25

And:


“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I might take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down from Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again. I have received this commandment from My Father.” –John 10:17-18


Praise be to God the Father through Jesus Christ the Son! We believers live and we shall live because He lives!


I hope, Reno Raines, this begins to answer your question. The truth is we could talk about this all day long but I hope this will give you what you seek for now.


May God bless you richly and…

 

[Ron Gurley]

Matthew 16: 24-27 (NASB) Jesus: Christ-following Is Spiritually Costly...(extracts: parens + caps mine)
24 Then Jesus said to His DISCIPLES, (saved believers!)
“If anyone wishes to COME AFTER Me (use Me as an example and model), he MUST:
>>1. deny himself, AND (spiritually put God, family, neighbors, world...BEFORE SELF)
>>2. take up his cross AND (spiritually bear sacrificial burdens of trusting and obeying and serving, etc)
>>3. follow Me. (spiritually imitate the perfect example of Jesus and His precepts)
25 For whoever wishes to save his (spiritual) life will lose it; but whoever loses his (earthly) life for My sake will find it.
26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole (material) world and forfeits his soul (/spirit)?
Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul (/spirit)?
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, (Second Coming !)
and will then repay every man (believer) according to his deeds. (Judgment of the Believer's Works after salvation)

Luke 14:25-33 (NASB) ....Discipleship Tested
25 Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them (unsaved large crowds),
26 “If anyone comes to Me (FOLLOWS!), and
does not "hate" (lesser SPIRITUAL priority?) his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
27 Whoever does not "carry his own cross" (willingly sacrifice self)
and come after (FOLLOW!) Me cannot be My disciple.(pupil)
(EXAMPLES
28 For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and
"calculate the cost" to see if he has enough to complete it?
29 Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, 30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’
31 Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first "sit down and consider" whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand?
32 Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace.
33 So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up (lesser SPIRITUAL priority?) all his own possessions.

 

[Reno Raines]

Thanks so much exinanation!
THat was a really great post, well written and easy to understand.
Sorry one more question
What is meat by "sleep"? This word is used several times

 

[Exinanition]

Thanks so much exinanation!
THat was a really great post, well written and easy to understand.
Sorry one more question
What is meat by "sleep"? This word is used several times

Reno Raines, thank you for your kind words. There is no need to apologize. I do not mind your questions. The word "sleep" is used in the bible both literally and figuratively. The literal, of course, means simply to sleep just as everyone does every day or night. You get tired and sleepy and you lie down and sleep. Figuratively, the word is used to represent someone's having died and been laid to rest.

Literal:
And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; -Genesis 2:21

And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. -Genesis 18:12

And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew it not. -Genesis 28:16


Figurative of having died and having been laid to rest (buried):
And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. -Deuteronomy 31:16

And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. -2 Samuel 7:12

And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be. -Job 7:21

Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death; -Psalm 13:3


Whenever the term "sleep with thy/his fathers" is used it is figurative speech meaning to die and be laid to rest in the dust as one's ancestors also have died and been laid to rest in the dust.

Reno Raines, I hope this will help you to understand and possibly help you to realize when reading your bible if the word "sleep" is meant to be literal or figurative.

Keep studying and searching the scriptures for therein lies the truth of God and...