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Mass to change

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Voegelin, Dec 20, 2006.

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  1. Voegelin

    Voegelin Reactionary

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    News24
    South Africa's premier news source

    Vatican City - Roman Catholic priests will soon be telling their flocks during mass that Christ gave his blood for "many", but not everyone, according to a new Vatican directive . . .

    Hailed by traditionalists and slammed by progressive members of the Church, the change was decided by Cardinal Francis Arinze, head of the Congregation for Divine Worship, to be truer to the Latin "pro multis", he explained in a letter to bishops . . .

    http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2046527,00.html
     
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  2. Skripper

    Skripper Legend

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    We'll see. It's not uncommon for local parishes and dioceses to ignore directives from Rome.
     
  3. vrunca

    vrunca STRESSED spelled backwards is DESSERTS

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    So true!!!
     
  4. dave90

    dave90 Guest

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    are we turning into calvinsts? :scratch:
     
  5. DarkLord

    DarkLord Regular Member

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    Thats the Tridentine Mass consecration words. Nah...that mass came out 1500yrs ago. So calvinist must be catholic in some area haha.
     
  6. PetertheRock

    PetertheRock Well-Known Member

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    I still saw EMHCs purifying the Communion vessels. This was a Franciscan church too. I really love this church because the Blessed Sacrament is where it should be...the center of the sanctuary. But before they begin Mass they start by introducing the lectors, the altar servers, the EMHC's and the cantor announces his own name like it's a starting lineup of a football game. I didn't know if I was at Mass or if the Star Spangled Banner was going to start playing just before kickoff.

    They also have so many EMHC's. This is a pretty small church and they had like 4 or 5 of them. We also gave a round of applause for the altar server who was serving his first Mass. I really don't have much of a problem with that as much as I do with announcing the names of everyone serving Mass and the EMHCs purifying the Communion vessels around the altar..or anywhere else for that matter.
     
  7. BrotherKnight

    BrotherKnight Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.

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    It's sad how people desire a self-centered Mass that entertains, rather than a Christ-centered Mass that sanctifies. :sigh:
     
  8. Amylisa8

    Amylisa8 Member

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    What did Jesus say in the Gospels? Wasn't it "many"? I have to go look it up.
     
  9. Voegelin

    Voegelin Reactionary

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    Here is one explaination. A Protestant scholar made the claim it should be "all". A Catholic, Patrick Olmor, has apparently sucessfully refuted that and "many" it will be.
     
  10. winsome

    winsome English, not British

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    There have been some letters in The Tablet (UK Catholic weekly) about this. One points out that the earliest words of consecration are in 1Cor 11:24 which does not mention of Christ’s blood being poured out “for many” (or for all either). Neither does Luke say that. “For many” comes into Mark (14:24) and Matthew (26:28) where he says “on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins”. (NAB).

    The Latin text has gone with pro multis from Matthew/Mark, while (the letter says) protestants go with Paul/Luke. However the correspondent goes on to say that Matthew’s connecting it with the forgiveness of sins is a reference back to Isaiah 53:11 (Through his suffering, my servant shall justify many, and their guilt he shall bear). The “many” here is a Hebrew expression which means “all” as there is no Hebrew word for “all”.

    He goes on to say that “for many” has the form of the original but does not have the meaning.

    Another correspondent points out that in modern English “many” is a weak word, usually meaning “not very many”, or “quite a few”, (as in many still do not have television) and suggest that to hear at Mass that Christ’s blood was shed for “quite a few” is wholly inadequate.
     
  11. Veritas

    Veritas 1 Lord, 1 Faith, 1 Baptism

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    Interesting. I guess I'd have to agree. My first impression of the word "many" would also lead me to believe that perhaps I've been left out.:cry: I think we can say "all" without necessarily meaning absolutely everyone past, present or future. In essence, Christ did die (shed His blood) for all, but that doesn't imply that all will be saved as result. Make sense?
     
  12. RedTulipMom

    RedTulipMom Legend

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    hmmm..Christ did shed his blood for all, but not all will choose heaven
     
  13. Angeldove97

    Angeldove97 In the Lord, my labor is not in vain Supporter

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    Uhm that's my interpretation of it. Who are we to judge why He did what He did? I don't think the Church can make an accurate interpretation on this. :scratch:
     
  14. Angeldove97

    Angeldove97 In the Lord, my labor is not in vain Supporter

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    We have a big church, I'd say at least 150 people per Sunday Mass. And we don't even say their names, we just play them in the bulletin and I think that's how it should be. The only person you should be announcing is Jesus Christ!
     
  15. Qoheleth

    Qoheleth Byzantine Catholic

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    Is the Church not the Body of Christ and the Body of Christ the Church?

    Is this same body not indewlt and guided by the Holy Spirit throughout all ages?

    If not the Church...then who may interpret?

    Q
     
  16. pax

    pax Veteran

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    In other places I've seen this change attributed to the Holy Father who has the final word on all liturgical translations. We probably won't see this change for awhile, though. My guess is that they'll hold off until the USCCB approves the proper texts for the Roman Missal from ICEL and Rome grants its final recognitio for the whole thing. I'm thinking 2009.
     
  17. isshinwhat

    isshinwhat Pro Deo et Patria

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    There are two effects of the Life, Death, and Resurrection of Christ.

    1) The redemption of the race.

    2) The redemption of the individual.

    It is in the first sense that the blood was shed for all, and the second that it was shed for many. As the Body and Blood of Christ are received at Mass by those who (hopefully) will see Heaven, they are part of the many. Christ died for all, but not all will participate in that death and resurrection.

    God Bless,

    Neal
     
  18. PetertheRock

    PetertheRock Well-Known Member

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    I believe as someone has said that Jesus did die for everyon'e sins. However, not everyone accepts His sacrafice and therefore lose their salvation.

    As far as the starting lineups at Mass go, I would say the only thing I could go along with is announcing the priest who is saying Mass. Especially if you have more than one priest or you have a visiting priest filling in.

    But there is absolutely no need to introduce all the lay servers of Mass.
     
  19. Rising_Suns

    Rising_Suns 'Christ's desolate heart is in need of comfort'

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    I think the short answer was given by the Church; that "Pro Multis" was the translation in use for nearly 18 centuries, and is thus most faithful to the historical tradition of the Church, which supercedes the more subjective (in this case) debate of semantics.

    -Davide
     
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