Mary's title "kecharitomene"

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Seraphim Reeves

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Well, the Scriptures say "hail, full of grace" (kecharitomene), and I highly doubt you'll find any Orthodox Christian who will debate this.

However, the implications of this are understood differently by Orthodox Christians than they are by Roman Catholics. For Orthodox Christians, a key sign that one is born into the condition of "original sin", is that they are mortal. The Theotokos, was mortal - She reposed. It was a death unlike those vile men like us will have - it was peaceful, and resulted in her translation to Heaven, but She did die.

Some may interject to this observation "well, did not Christ die? Does that make him defiled in any way, a sinner?" The answer to this is a resounding "no" - but not because He did not suffer mortality, but why He did. He did, not as what was naturally His lot in the order of things, but by explicit choice - He chose to suffer as we do, right up to and including death. This great "kenosis" in the Holy Incarnation is spoken of by St.Paul, when He speaks of Christ as being true God, yet also "emptying Himself" of all privilege, to suffer as sinners do, for the sake of sinners.

The Mother of God, OTOH, has not purchased our redemption at the price of Her blood, nor raised Herself from death - She is a beneficiary of the grace of Her Son, just as we are. IOW, She differs from us in degree, but not kind.

St.John (Maximovitch) in his work The Orthodox Veneration of the Theotokos rightly observes that the Latin doctrine of the "Immaculate Conception", rather than honouring our Lady, takes honour away from Her, by positing that Her supreme purity and fullness in sanctity, were not a by-product of Her asceticism and profound submission (through all of Her life) to the will of God, but because there was something fundamentally different bettween Her nature and that of the rest of mankind.

Evidence of all of this can be found in the fact that the RCC, is officially of two minds regarding whether or not the Theotokos in fact died at all! Thus why Pius XII left this information out of his definition on the "Assumption" dogma, and why officially Roman Catholics are free to believe either (that She somehow reposed, or that She was in fact assummed into Heaven alive). The belief that She did not die, is wholly consistant with the RC belief in an "immaculate conception", but not with the witness of the Church of Christ.

OTOH, even those RC's who believe She in fact did repose, are put into a weird position, where they have to maintain (as I've heard some of them do) that She also "chose" to die! Such a thought does, obviously, play well into the "co-redemptrix" teaching, which has slowly gained popularity amongst Roman Catholics - of course, such a thought is completely foreign to both the Holy Scriptures, and the Orthodox Church.

Seraphim
 
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Seraphim Reeves

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Jeff,

We view the Blessed Virgin's conception like all other conceptions of babies everywhere. She was born Immaculately just as everyone else is.


Yes and no. According to the Psalmist, we are "conceived in sins." We are all members of Adam, by nature, so we are apples not fallen far from the tree (so to speak.) We're born mortal, hence filled with concupiscence (passionate, prone to sin/being deluded.) You are right though, in the sense that no one is born "personally guilty" of anything anyone else did.

Seraphim
 
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MariaRegina

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KennySe said:
Hello, brothers and sisters in Christ,

What is the Orthodox view of Mary's conception? We, Catholics say she had an Immaculate Conception, and that the title "kecharitomene" indicates this.

La Vierge Marie, que l’Église orthodoxe appelle plutôt la Mère de Dieu, occupe une place capitale et unique dans la théologie, la liturgie et la piété orthodoxes. Dans ce numéro du Bulletin Lumière du Thabor, nous vous proposons des articles, des homélies et des prières qui reflètent la dévotion de l’Église envers celle qu’on nomme « la très-sainte, immaculée, toute-bénie et glorieuse Souveraine, la Mère de Dieu et toujours-vierge Marie ». L’article de Vladimir Lossky, « Panaghia – La Toute-Sainte », exprime en peu de mots les fondements bibliques, théologiques et historiques de la dévotion orthodoxe envers la Mère de Dieu, thèmes qui trouvent leur échos dans les textes et homélies des saints Silouane l’Athonite, Nicolas Cabasilas, Cyrille d’Alexandrie et Jean Damascène, ainsi qu’en la sélection de prières à la Mère de Dieu.


P.S. this is just a test to see if the accents were copied. Can you understand the French? If you're interested, this is a news bulletin from Quebec.
 
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Photini

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chanter said:
P.S. this is just a test to see if the accents were copied. Can you understand the French? If you're interested, this is a news bulletin from Quebec.
LOL! too many years have passed since French class...

I do remember how to say "I am wearing boots" though. LOL!
 
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MariaRegina

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Dear Photini:

Edit: I guess there was a computer glitch. Anyway this is my third try to edit this message.

Here's the site from Canada, which has some nice icons:

http://www.pagesorthodoxes.net/

I can understand French although I haven't had a French class since high school long time ago. Remember the English language has a 50 percent French overlay.



Enjoy.

Elizabeth
 
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