Mary wasn't "Immaculately Conceived"

[Albion]

This is all very interesting, but the replies in support of Mary's Immaculate Conception are exactly what Roman Catholics are taught.

it would have been unthinkable for Him to create a "less than perfect" Mother

Mary was chosen for a really important role, so of course God would make her be special in every conceivable way.

And as for Scripture...there's the angel saying "Hail Mary full of grace...." which is interpreted to mean that her grace level had reached 100% as though other people might only have 65% or 33%, etc. But interestingly enough, it's the King James Version which uses that wording; almost all other translations, Catholic ones included, render it "has found favor with God."

When it comes to this verse and this doctrine, then the KJV is the go-to edition for Catholic teachers, however.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Mary was chosen for a really important role, so of course God would make her be special in every conceivable way.

sure, but the question is that if He can do that to Mary, why not the rest of us?

 

[Albion]

sure, but the question is that if He can do that to Mary, why not the rest of us?

Well, that IS a reasonable question to ask under the circumstances, especially since the whole thing with the Immaculate Conception is based upon nothing more than speculation and wishful thinking. However, I would guess that the answer you'd get back is that you (and the rest of us) aren't as important to God as Mary was. No?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Well, that IS a reasonable question to ask under the circumstances, especially since the whole thing with the Immaculate Conception is based upon nothing more than speculation and wishful thinking. However, I would guess that the answer you'd get back is that you (and the rest of us) aren't as important to God as Mary was. No?

how can you quantify a God Who is infinite love as thinking anyone is more important than anyone else?

 

[Albion]

how can you quantify a God Who is infinite love as thinking anyone is more important than anyone else?

I don't know that I can.

My reply was given as an educated guess concerning what a person who has been taught that the Immaculate Conception is true would say in reply to your question.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I don't know that I can.

My reply was given as an educated guess concerning what a person who has been taught that the Immaculate Conception is true would say in reply to your question.

oh, I gotcha. I was just tossing my question out there based on what you said.

 

[Not David]

Depends in what we mean by sin, if by personal sins, then we don't start when we are born but if we are talking about original sin (that means being affected by a corrupted world), then we are.

 

[Malleeboy]

Question to EO folks....

The RC position on Immaculate conception seems to presuppose hereditary passing on sin not federal passing of sin. That is ancestral/original sin passed onto people through their parents not because Adam is their source?

So for RC's Mary needs to be sinless so she doesn't pass sin on Jesus.
Whereas in a federalist position ancestral/original sin aren't passed from your parents but because Adam is your source/head. Jesus is exempt to original sin because he was before Adam and replaces Adam as the source/font of redeemed humanity. (eg taken from Paul in Romans 5)

Is federalism a belief in EO?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Question to EO folks....

The RC position on Immaculate conception seems to presuppose hereditary passing on sin not federal passing of sin. That is ancestral/original sin passed onto people through their parents not because Adam is their source?

So for RC's Mary needs to be sinless so she doesn't pass sin on Jesus.
Whereas in a federalist position ancestral/original sin aren't passed from your parents but because Adam is your source/head. Jesus is exempt to original sin because he was before Adam and replaces Adam as the source/font of redeemed humanity. (eg taken from Paul in Romans 5)

Is federalism a belief in EO?

no, it’s not federalism. Christ is exempt because He is God. as God, He can assume human nature and deify it without needing to do anything unique to Mary. the idea that God would need to act on Mary because God otherwise Christ’s humanity would have been sinful is extremely problematic.