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Featured Mary magnifies the Lord

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by packermann, Dec 24, 2019.

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  1. packermann

    packermann Junior Member

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    That is your interpretation. My interpretation, which is the interpretation of Christians for 2,000 years, is that Jesus crowned her in heaven ( Revelation 12). In heaven, our Lord showed how He really felt about her. It matters not how we are treated in this world; it only matters in heaven when we receive a crown of glory.

    I have to wonder you say this because you have no logical counter-argument.

    The problem is that your criteria is subjective. What is a typical Protestant denomination?
    Of the largest American denominations include Southern Baptist and Assemblies of God. I don't recall you mentioning them. And why should that be the criteria? Who decided that?

    As I told you, I never said that these religious bodies were Protestant - which by your argument is an impossibility. And I agree because of your circular argument. Protestants believe in the deity of Christ. So any body that rejects the deity of Christ cannot be Protestant. But the problem is that you do not have a magisterium who can determine what a true Protestant church must believe. It is all a matter of opinion.
     
  2. Alistair_Wonderland

    Alistair_Wonderland Member

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    Thank you very much. This was very informative, and has helped to clear up some incorrect thinking I (and many other Protestants) have been taught. God bless, and peace out, homie!
     
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  3. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    There's not much "interpretation" required. Anyone familiar with the Gospels knows the events I had in mind. It's not that I prefer it that way, but it's undeniable; and we could, if you wish, go through all the relevant moments in Christ's life in order to show that it is so. We could then talk over how they might some us something other than the apparent coolness that Jesus showed towards his mother.

    Take another look at that post.

    You wrote: "But large segment of liberal Protestantism denies the deity of Christ. Look at the Unitarians. And the founders of the Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, non-Trinitarian Adventism and Christian Science were once Protestants.
     
  4. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

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    As they like to say at Geico, "everyone knows that".
    Certainly the scriptures are clear that all the fullness of Deity dwells in Jesus.
    The doctrine of the Trinity is debatable.
    Which makes me think that Mary is among the elect of God and seated with Christ in Heaven with the rest of us Christians.
    Where on earth have you seen that? I never have seen such disrespect for Mary from the Lord in the scriptures or from believers here on earth..

    Jesus had so much love and respect for His Mother that she was the last person He made earthly provision for while He hung on the cross by linking her with John for the rest of their lives.

    Again - I have never seen a believer disrespect the Lord's mother.
    Pure nonsense IMO. Mary get just as much status as the rest of us. She is likely seated with Christ in Heaven just as the rest of us are.

    The denial of the divinity of Christ usually has nothing whatsoever with the person we all respect - Mary His mother.
    The devil believes in the divinity of Christ - so what?
    They cannot and obviously do not.
    Absolutely right.
    Obviously no Mary, no Jesus, Unless of course God had placed His special favor on Jane instead of Mary.

    The second statement is simply silly. Like John the Baptist - she would certainly desire to decrease that the Lord might increase. Being the Godly person she is - she would no doubt agree wholeheartedly.
    Not necessarily.
    What a silly twisting of the scriptures.
    Pure heresy. Mary would be turning ove in her grave if she could.
    No ones says He did. Read His words from the cross to her and to the Apostle John.
    Not that you surprise me - giving as much authority to traditions as the Word of God as you group does. But this simply goes beyond what the scriptures tell us.
    You have obviously been taught not only what is not in the scriptures but in some respect out and out heresy.
    If she was sinless she would not have had to bring the offering for atonement specified in Leviticus 12:8 which was spelled out for us in Luke chapter 2 that she did.

    The perpetual virginity of Mary is so un biblical as not even deserve further comment.

    Your leaders have led you astray.

    No doubt Catholics will agree with your assessment. No doubt most believers in the authority of the scriptures will reject your assessment.

    No need to get back to me. Since you will be guided by scripture alone it would be like casting pearls before swine (no offense - it's just a term the Lord coined for us - you'll find it in the scriptures along with the other things I have pointed out to you)

    I just wanted the opportunity to tell you that your beliefs are not only not correct but that you teaching them to other believers will garner you a more strict judgment than if you had kept themselves between you and the leaders of your cult.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  5. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth Supporter

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    I would be willing to bet that Jesus treated both of His parents with the utmost respect, as it is commanded... Mary was His mother but still needed salvation from Him, as we all do.
     
  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Agreed, but mere respect is not the issue that was raised in this thread.
     
  7. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth Supporter

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    Jesus' brothers were younger than Him. Joseph was, as it is believed, to have been a widower and older than Mary. There is no mention of other children but it does mention His younger brothers.

    Do you really think that, in that time period.. a man would have taken on a wife who would not bear him children? Seriously, in those days, your daughters earned you a dowry, and your sons supported you and your wife in your old age. They also helped in the family business.

    I can understand that Joseph was convinced by the Holy Spirit to marry Mary even when he was going to quietly end their relationship.... However... I cannot believe that he would be married, have no children or sexual relations with her for their entire married days.... This would be very contrary to the whole customary way of that time.
     
  8. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    If that is true, why David speaks of Lord that is not Yahweh?

    Yahweh says to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand, Until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet."
    Ps. 110:1
     
  9. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth Supporter

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    I was responding to the post that I quoted... it was in this thread.
     
  10. concretecamper

    concretecamper Member of His Church

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    a humanistic response. He just followed the law. Wow, God just doing things as good as any other Jewish boy would do. Ok God, no offense, but your nothing special.
    as the Church teaches.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  11. concretecamper

    concretecamper Member of His Church

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    my quote didnt reference respect :scratch:
     
  12. concretecamper

    concretecamper Member of His Church

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    again, this is new novel ideas....that Jesus had brothers or sisters.
    this doesnt describe a holy man who had a vision of an angel telling him to take Mary as his wife.
    ah, so they MUST have followed what every one else does. Not a strong argument. Especially since scripture points to perpetual virginity.
     
  13. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is rarely worthwhile responding to such ill informed prejudice as deepwaters post below.

    But in case others are interested in biblical fact:
    I will prove it wrong , starting with the first assertion.

    From the annunciation Jesus was heralded as a davidic king.
    He did all he could to align himself to the davidic line, so he would be understood by his Jewish audience who looked for meaning in the OT.

    For example he rode a donkey as Solomon had done.

    We see in OT that the MOTHER ( not spouse ) of a davidic king was given honorary title QUEEN. Jesus’s kingdom is heaven.

    So like it or not the bible imputes her honorary title “queen of heaven”!! As mother of a davidic king.

    Notice also in OT that Solomon gives her a throne (reinforcing queen ship) bows to her and says he will “ do whatever she asks”
    So heralding the power of intercession.

    We see this enacted at Cana. Where Mary demonstrates that intercession when Jesus does what she asks, but He says in effect “ not yet” when He says , ‘what have you to do with me now? My time has not yet come’

    Jesus’s time has now come....

    And as demonstration this is the true faith, we see in the writings of some of the fathers attending the councils that decided creed and canon ( New Testament ) who were vociferous on intercession of Mary.

    Etc etc.

    So the question is not why catholic’s believe it, but why does deepwater ignore the faith the early fathers were handed, and the biblical texts that underpin it?

    Food for thought?

    Happy Christmas

     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  14. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth Supporter

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    Firstly.. show me where Joseph was a "holy man"... He was a carpenter. Not a rabbi.
    Secondly... Why would they not follow the culture of that time? Was Joseph going to get hand outs from the town? He was a working man and working men had families.. to help with the family career and support them in their old age.
    Third.. Where is the chapter and verse that indicate "perpetual virginity" When Jesus had brothers?
     
  15. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And Catholics recognize that Mary was indeed saved. Saved by being protected from sin instead of saved after sinning, but still saved by the blood of Jesus. That's clear from the Magnificat and well known to Catholic theologians, the same ones who teach that Mary was sinless.
     
  16. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    He was enough in tune with God to receive dreams from God. As a carpenter and not a rabbi.
    Can a holy man work with his hands? Or does a holy man have to have soft hands?
    You could argue that with Luther. He knew. And Calvin did too.
     
  17. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth Supporter

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    I don't care what any "magnifaicat" says... Didn't they say you could pay money to them and be forgiven?

    Show me scripture... not words of men.
     
  18. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth Supporter

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    Still a carpenter... needing to work, needing a family, needing a wife who can give him children.. a wife that did just that.. ... All in the scriptures.


    What?

    what is the chapter and verse?
     
  19. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm sorry. I presumed that being a Protestant and all that you knew your Bible. That you knew that the Magnificat was Mary's prayer found at the beginning of the Gospel of Luke. I didn't know that you didn't know that. Luke 1: 46-56.
    They? The Magnificat is Scripture and nothing but Scripture. At least in my Bible.
    I did and you didn't even know. The reflexive anti-Catholic thing kicked in and blinded you.
     
  20. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    For Luther knowing Mary was a virgin? Or for Calvin knowing it?
     
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