Martin Luther identifies the Antichrist over 500 years ago!

[LittleLambofJesus]

I read the writings where Luther said the Pope was the antiChrist. It seems logical to deduce that he was talking about the times when the reformation was occuring and deemed necessary and the history before it.

The reformation having occured, and the Roman Catholic church like so many institutions and people having changed for the better (protestant denoms included), make it illogical to apply what was said back then regarding those circumstances to now.

I wonder how long he would have lasted if he hadn't exclaimed about the Papacy.
But even then, the early churches never really delved into the Hebrew Scriptures and as Saul/Paul says here, the veil still covers their eyes to this day.

2 Corin 3:14 But was calloused the minds of them. For until the today day, the same covering/kalumma <2571> upon the reading of the Old Covenant is remaining, no being up-covered/anakaluptomenon <343> (5746). That In Christ it is being-taken-away/katargeitai <2673> (5743).

Martin Luther's Sermon for the Sunday after Christ’s Ascension; John 15:26-16:4 (2nd sermon), page 265, paragraph 28, 1522.Accordingly, we concede to the papacy that they sit in the true Church, possessing the office instituted by Christ

 

[Catholic Christian]

Saul/Paul was no "slouch" either ...

Yup. Thats why when you approach St Peters Basillica, you will be greeted by statues of both men:

...

Peter, with the keys, and Paul, with the sword

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I wonder how long he would have lasted if he hadn't exclaimed about the Papacy.
But even then, the early churches never really delved into the Hebrew Scriptures and as Saul/Paul says here, the veil still covers their eyes to this day.

2 Corin 3:14 But was calloused the minds of them. For until the today day, the same covering/kalumma <2571> upon the reading of the Old Covenant is remaining, no being up-covered/anakaluptomenon <343> (5746). That In Christ it is being-taken-away/katargeitai <2673> (5743).

Truthfully, I can also view the the Roman papacy way of reading of the NT/NC.

I highly recommend studying the Covenantle parable of the Rich-man/Lazarus.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

2 Corin 3:14 But was calloused the minds of them. For until the today day, the same covering/kalumma <2571> upon the reading of the Old Covenant is remaining, no being up-covered/anakaluptomenon <343> (5746). That In Christ it is being-taken-away/katargeitai <2673> (5743).

Luke 16:26 And on all of these, between Us [NC Faith/Life/Spirit] and Ye [OC Law/Death/Flesh] a great chasm/casma <5490> hath been established, so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye not be able to, no yet thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276>.

Hebrews 11:29 By Faith They crossed-over/diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Sea as thru Dry: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.


http://foru.ms/t4437955-lazarus-and-the-rich-man.html

 

[mont974x4]

The antichrist? I don't think so.

However, Luther did call the pope an enemy of God a few times in his book Bondage of Wills. This I find more accurate.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yup. Thats why when you approach St Peters Basillica, you will be greeted by statues of both men:

...

Peter, with the keys, and Paul, with the sword

Roman statues just don't do it for me.

Luke 21:5 And certain saying about the temple that to stones goodly and devoted-things/anaqhmasin <334> it hath been adorned/kekosmhtai <2885>, he said,

Reve 21:19 The foundations of the wall of the city to every stone, precious, having been adorned/kekosmhmenoi <2885> (5772). The foundation, the first, ............................

Reve 21:2 And the city, the holy, Jerusalem, New, I perceived descending out of the heaven from the God, having been made ready as bride having been adorned/worlded/kekosmhmenhn <2885> (5772) to the man of her.

 

[Catholic Christian]

The antichrist? I don't think so.

However, Luther did call the pope an enemy of God a few times in his book Bondage of Wills. This I find more accurate.

The pope is an enemy of God. Wow. I guess thats why so many religious leaders praised John Paul II when he died.

 

[Catholic Christian]

Roman statues just don't do it for me..

..are you sure?

..these don't seem to bother anyone..

 

[Trento]

The quote copied below is from one of Martin Luther's last books. It was titled: "A Prelude by Martin Luther on the Babylonian Captivity of the Church". The Web link for the complete text of the book is at the end of the article.

Page 536, chapter 3.

"Nevertheless, since few know this glory of baptism and the blessedness of Christian liberty, and cannot know them because of the tyranny of the pope, I for one will walk away from it all and redeem my conscience by bringing this charge against the pope and all his papists: Unless they will abolish their laws and traditions, and restore to Christ's churches their liberty and have it taught among them, they are guilty of all the souls that perish under this miserable captivity, and the papacy is truly the kingdom of Babylon, yes, the kingdom of the real Antichrist! For who is " the man of sin" and "the son of perdition" but he that with his doctrines and his laws increases sins and the perdition of souls in the Church, while he sits in the Church as if he were God? All this the papal tyranny has fulfilled, and more than fulfilled, these many centuries. It has extinguished faith, obscured the sacraments and oppressed the Gospel."

http://panoply.home.att.net/antichrist.htm

 

[mozart250]

The quote copied below is from one of Martin Luther's last books. It was titled: "A Prelude by Martin Luther on the Babylonian Captivity of the Church". The Web link for the complete text of the book is at the end of the article.

Page 536, chapter 3.

"Nevertheless, since few know this glory of baptism and the blessedness of Christian liberty, and cannot know them because of the tyranny of the pope, I for one will walk away from it all and redeem my conscience by bringing this charge against the pope and all his papists: Unless they will abolish their laws and traditions, and restore to Christ's churches their liberty and have it taught among them, they are guilty of all the souls that perish under this miserable captivity, and the papacy is truly the kingdom of Babylon, yes, the kingdom of the real Antichrist! For who is " the man of sin" and "the son of perdition" but he that with his doctrines and his laws increases sins and the perdition of souls in the Church, while he sits in the Church as if he were God? All this the papal tyranny has fulfilled, and more than fulfilled, these many centuries. It has extinguished faith, obscured the sacraments and oppressed the Gospel."

So what. Luther and the other reformers were wrong on that one. Nobody is incapable of being incorrect.

As is 95% of the speculation on details of the end of the age.

For exhibit A I pull out my 1970s edition of the Late Great Planet Earth.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

..are you sure?

..these don't seem to bother anyone..

Why should it? A statue is a statue.

http://christianforums.com/t6813701-question-time-jesus-returns-before-or-after-1000yrs.html

http://www.prometheus-imports.com/

Revelation 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men

 

[JacktheCatholic]

You mean convert me back. I was Roman catholic for 16 yrs and found their teaching of the Scriptures "lacking" and still do to this day.
But then again, I don't think any denomination has the Full Truth though all may hold part of the Truth. I will remain non-denominational in the Body of Christ.

Btw, can you vote on my poll at the link below and I even put an option "doesn't matter"? Thanks

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Matt 24:9 then they shall be delivering ye up into tribulation, and They shall be Killing/apoktenousin <615> (5692) Ye, and ye shall be being hated by all of the nations thru/because-of the Name of Me;

Reve 11:7 `And whenever they should be finishing/teleswsin <5055> (5661) the testimony/witness of them, the wild-beast, the one ascending out of the Abyss, shall be doing with them, battle, and shall be conquering them, and shall be Killing/apoktenei <615> (5692) Them

http://christianforums.com/t6813701-question-time-jesus-returns-before-or-after-1000yrs.html

I do not think anyone has the full understanding of scriptures except those in Heaven.

But the Roman Catholic Church has as good of an understanding as anyone will get here on Earth.

I am still curious as to this Millenium thing.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I do not think anyone has the full understanding of scriptures except those in Heaven.

But the Roman Catholic Church has as good of an understanding as anyone will get here on Earth.

I am still curious as to this Millenium thing.

Me too and why I started a poll on it over here........

http://christianforums.com/t6813701&page=4
Question time. Jesus returns before or after 1000yrs

 

[Melethiel]

Actually it was the Father's of the church dealing with herecies up until 700 to 800 AD that covered most all herecies (I think).

Protestants just tend to fall in one or more of the old herecies by accident or intent.

I hate being called Protestant. Most Lutherans don't consider themselves Protestant.

 

[mont974x4]

If rome is suposed to have the fullest understanding of Scripture, why do they go against it so often? Why did the pope cuddle up to the muslims? Why did God give all believers the Holy Spirit to lead us into the fullness of truth? Why are we all commanded to test the spirits, study for ourselves and contend earnestly for the faith?

 

[Catholic Christian]

I hate being called Protestant. Most Lutherans don't consider themselves Protestant.

I'm curious to know the current definition, because every Lutheran I know calls themselves a protestant

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'm curious to know the current definition, because every Lutheran I know calls themselves a protestant

I just call myself a Christ-ian and let the Roman church put whatever label they want on me.

http://christianforums.com/t6777178-...y.html&page=20
New Site Wide Rule Nicene Christianity

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
catholic**, (Mark 16: 15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

**The word "catholic" (literally, "universal") refers to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ and not necessarily or exclusively to any particular visible denomination or institution

 

[JacktheCatholic]

If rome is suposed to have the fullest understanding of Scripture, why do they go against it so often? Why did the pope cuddle up to the muslims? Why did God give all believers the Holy Spirit to lead us into the fullness of truth? Why are we all commanded to test the spirits, study for ourselves and contend earnestly for the faith?

What you say is true and the Catholic Church agrees with. BUT you have left out so many other parts of Jesus as the Word. If the scriptures are the Word then we must accept them all.

Scripture says prophecy is not a matter of private interpretation. Scripture says the Church is the Foundation and Bulwark of the Truth. Scripture says that we are to listen to the Bishops as we would Jesus himself. Scripture says that if we want to have life in us and be lifted up on the Last Day that we must eat of Jesus' flesh and drink of his blood.

I think the better question is not why you think Rome goes against scripture so often but rather why does your Church not fully the Word fully?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I just call myself a Christ-ian and let the Roman church put whatever label they want on me.

http://christianforums.com/t6777178-...y.html&page=20
New Site Wide Rule Nicene Christianity

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
catholic**, (Mark 16: 15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

**The word "catholic" (literally, "universal") refers to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ and not necessarily or exclusively to any particular visible denomination or institution

I do not care what you or anyone says... you are catholic in my book.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Peter and Paul indeed are an Awsome pair!!!!

Originally Posted by terryobrien80

...

Peter, with the keys, and Paul, with the sword

I was going to post this image of Saul/Paul but it appears I need permission so I used a different one from another site:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Vatican_StPaul_Statue.jpg

If you use this picture somewhere outside the wiki-world, i'd be happy to get a short eMail from you.

 

[Melethiel]

I'm curious to know the current definition, because every Lutheran I know calls themselves a protestant

Try going into the Lutheran forum here and telling the Lutherans they're Protestant. You'll get lambasted.

We have always considered ourselves "Evangelical Catholic". It's true that with 19th century pietism some Protestantism seeped into the Lutheran church, but we're working on rooting that out.