Married priests.....am I right or wrong here?

[Light of the East]

Okay, once again I am dueling with Romans over on a forum board I have been on for at least a decade.

They are throwing up the usual fluff about the celibate priesthood. Here are two replies I made - and I ask for your criticism and correction if you feel that I have gone out of bounds with my replies.

Number One:

Hmmmmmmmmmm......let's think out loud here, shall we???

Married priests = problem.

Problem is that married priests are not holy because they have *gasp* sex with their wives.

Therefore, married men should not be allowed to become priests because they would not be holy.

So ignoring the unholy priests in the West now who promote bad theology, are in favor of moral relativism such as "gay marriage," who give communion to open and unrepentant homosexuals, who make statements that encourage the wicked, who are themselves practicing homosexuals, who attend ecumenical services with apostate Protestants in the hope of some faux reunion....etc, etc, etc.......

we should just ignore all that and trash the idea of married priests, which was the norm in the Church until the 13th century and is still the norm in the East.

Excuse me if I just don't quite share the angst of some on this issue.

Number Two: (Me in blue)

Other than the fact that Paul says its better to be celebrate for Christ, the practical concerns with married priests:

1) Cost of healthcare for a family

Covered by the parish. Non-issue

2) Salary requirements to support a family

Ditto number one

3) Taking care of the family versus ministering the sacraments - say momma wants to go on a girls trip, so daddy (the priest) watches the kids for the weened. The baby gets RSV and has to go to the hospital. Dad has to stay with the child until momma gets home. Dad gets a call that someone is dying and needs the Last Rites. What does dad do? We could talk in theoreticals all day about how he could or would work it out, but the reality is this situation is just one small example of the complications that arise from a married priesthood.

This is why a man who is going to be ordained is very careful in selecting a woman who seriously understands that the parish comes first. Her commitment to Christ should be as premier as his, and if she has any doubts, then the marriage should not go forward. In the Eastern Church, this is understood by those who contract marriage and then are ordained. Unfortunately, in America, we have Christians who think that their wants and desires come before the Lord. You can see this quite clearly in the spending habits of "Christians," in their worldliness, and how they treat Mass and the Holy Days of Obligation. Ditto with Sunday. We have turned Sunday into sports day rather than the Lord's Day.

4) Potential scandal of divorce. Catholics aren’t doing much better here than the general population, so there’s no reason to assume this won’t be a problem for a few married priests.

Ditto Number Three. What causes divorce? It is a lack of understanding that marriage is a self-sacrificial union in which you give yourself fully, just as you must give yourself fully to Christ and His Church. In America, we have been trained to believe that our happiness supersedes anything else, and therefore, if my spouse does not make me happy, I have the "right" to call it off and look elsewhere. Americans are a bunch of spoiled rotten whiney babies who have no idea what it means to practice Christianity. (And yes, while I theorize well about the realities of the Christian faith, I am right there with them)

5) Concerns over the seal of the confessional - most happily-married men and women share their days with all the intimacies in it. I can only imagine the concerns with people going to confession, despite the assurances, that their confesssion would be shared with a spouse. Although unlikely it would happen, it could still raise doubts.

This is so nonsensical it doesn't even deserve a reply. Honestly

So this isn’t about holiness - nobody said that a married priest couldn’t be holy. There are already a few married priest in the Roman Rite who are awesome. The concerns are with the practical matters of being a earthly father and a spiritual father if suddenly there are 1,000’s of married priests.

My argument on another thread in Facebook is that this is a continuation of the heresy of Janisenism and Manicheaism, in which the body and sexual love are seen as dirty and sinful. Do you agree?

 

[gzt]

The cost of healthcare is an amazingly Americo-centric concern - most other countries have some kind of universal healthcare system. But, yeah, your responses seem reasonable, their objections are a little off. I mean, there is something to it that you have to pay them more and they have to have a home life. It's something to deal with. But, like, it's worth it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

seems to me someone hasn't read the Synod of Gangra

 

[fat wee robin]

Okay, once again I am dueling with Romans over on a forum board I have been on for at least a decade.

They are throwing up the usual fluff about the celibate priesthood. Here are two replies I made - and I ask for your criticism and correction if you feel that I have gone out of bounds with my replies.
Paul says is best to be celibate ,not celebrate for Christ ; just in case some have not read this ,and will not comprehend.




mmmmm......let's think out loud here, shall we???

Married priests = problem.

Problem is that married priests are not holy because they have *gasp* sex with their wives.

Therefore, married men should not be allowed to become priests because they would not be holy.

So ignoring the unholy priests in the West now who promote bad theology, are in favor of moral relativism such as "gay marriage," who give communion to open and unrepentant homosexuals, who make statements that encourage the wicked, who are themselves practicing homosexuals, who attend ecumenical services with apostate Protestants in the hope of some faux reunion....etc, etc, etc.......

we should just ignore all that and trash the idea of married priests, which was the norm in the Church until the 13th century and is still the norm in the East.

Excuse me if I just don't quite share the angst of some on this issue.

Number Two: (Me in blue)

Other than the fact that Paul says its better to be celebrate for Christ, the practical concerns with married priests:

1) Cost of healthcare for a family

Covered by the parish. Non-issue

2) Salary requirements to support a family

Ditto number one

3) Taking care of the family versus ministering the sacraments - say momma wants to go on a girls trip, so daddy (the priest) watches the kids for the weened. The baby gets RSV and has to go to the hospital. Dad has to stay with the child until momma gets home. Dad gets a call that someone is dying and needs the Last Rites. What does dad do? We could talk in theoreticals all day about how he could or would work it out, but the reality is this situation is just one small example of the complications that arise from a married priesthood.

This is why a man who is going to be ordained is very careful in selecting a woman who seriously understands that the parish comes first. Her commitment to Christ should be as premier as his, and if she has any doubts, then the marriage should not go forward. In the Eastern Church, this is understood by those who contract marriage and then are ordained. Unfortunately, in America, we have Christians who think that their wants and desires come before the Lord. You can see this quite clearly in the spending habits of "Christians," in their worldliness, and how they treat Mass and the Holy Days of Obligation. Ditto with Sunday. We have turned Sunday into sports day rather than the Lord's Day.

4) Potential scandal of divorce. Catholics aren’t doing much better here than the general population, so there’s no reason to assume this won’t be a problem for a few married priests.

Ditto Number Three. What causes divorce? It is a lack of understanding that marriage is a self-sacrificial union in which you give yourself fully, just as you must give yourself fully to Christ and His Church. In America, we have been trained to believe that our happiness supersedes anything else, and therefore, if my spouse does not make me happy, I have the "right" to call it off and look elsewhere. Americans are a bunch of spoiled rotten whiney babies who have no idea what it means to practice Christianity. (And yes, while I theorize well about the realities of the Christian faith, I am right there with them)

5) Concerns over the seal of the confessional - most happily-married men and women share their days with all the intimacies in it. I can only imagine the concerns with people going to confession, despite the assurances, that their confesssion would be shared with a spouse. Although unlikely it would happen, it could still raise doubts.

This is so nonsensical it doesn't even deserve a reply. Honestly

So this isn’t about holiness - nobody said that a married priest couldn’t be holy. There are already a few married priest in the Roman Rite who are awesome. The concerns are with the practical matters of being a earthly father and a spiritual father if suddenly there are 1,000’s of married priests.

My argument on another thread in Facebook is that this is a continuation of the heresy of Janisenism and Manicheaism, in which the body and sexual love are seen as dirty and sinful. Do you agree?

 

[Light of the East]

seems to me someone hasn't read the Synod of Gangra

And yet again I am educated and enlightened by my participation on this forum. Thank you, Father!

 

[test]

Actually everyone need to be holy to be saved: Hebrews 12:14: Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
And not only virgins are holy. Adam and Eve was created married.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

It's a wider picture question first and foremost. If Pope Benedict were the one taking the initiative to make this change I think more people would be onboard with it, but this Francis fella is changing things east and west, its worrisome for many reasons.

It's correctly pointed out that it's a church discipline and it being so makes it possible to change it if there were reasons for such s change which it really, really isn't in the latin church. It will most certainly not lessen the shortage of priests and it will most definitely make the priesthood less mobile and harder to move not to mention the financial burden of feeding a family not one man.

Once again I stress the fact it's a discipline and no pope would be Heretic for changing the rule out celibacy. We have churches in our communion with married priesthood so this is not a question about anything but the rules of one of our rites, the latin.

 

[Anhelyna]

Stabat

you said <<but this Francis fella is changing things east and west, >>

Where is the Holy Father changing things in the East ? Please give some examples

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Stabat

you said <<but this Francis fella is changing things east and west, >>

Where is the Holy Father changing things in the East ? Please give some examples

It's an expression

 

[E.C.]

It might be worth mentioning that there is a caon (though I forget exactly from which council) that the bishop actually has to ask permission of the wife before the priest can be ordained.

 

[Light of the East]

It might be worth mentioning that there is a caon (though I forget exactly from which council) that the bishop actually has to ask permission of the wife before the priest can be ordained.

Which is a very, very wise thing to do. A wife can be a tremendous blessing to a priest, but if she is not onboard with the self-sacrificial nature of putting a parish first and serving the people of the parish (and I am speaking of both the priest and matushka) then there will be serious problems.

This is one of the common objections raised by Romans to a married priesthood, and it is legitimate. Hopefully and woman either understands or is helped to understand the full responsibilities and duties of a priest's wife before entering into marriage to a priestly candidate. If not, there can most certainly be difficulties ahead.

 

[E.C.]

This is one of the common objections raised by Romans to a married priesthood, and it is legitimate. Hopefully and woman either understands or is helped to understand the full responsibilities and duties of a priest's wife before entering into marriage to a priestly candidate. If not, there can most certainly be difficulties ahead.

This is partly why a lot of people try to set up daughters of priests with future priests

 

[Light of the East]

This is partly why a lot of people try to set up daughters of priests with future priests

Wisdom! Be attentive!