Mark of the beast, Anti-Christ and False Prophet Discussion.

[Davy]

okay, you have stated your rationale for the timing of the rapture/resurrection of 1Thessalonians4:15-18.

No, I did not state my rationale, I quoted Scripture proof of what I was saying, there's a difference.

There are probably a million posts in this forum debating the different views on the timing. And nobody has changed their minds so far. For that reason, I don't want to get into it in this thread, and it take over the thread.

You don't know who has or has not changed their minds here. If there was no chance of some on men's theories changing their minds, you nor I would take the time to post here.

So you just posting your 'opinion' to try and point out I was using my rationale instead of giving actual Scripture proof, has obviously failed.

 

[Douggg]

No, I did not state my rationale, I quoted Scripture proof of what I was saying, there's a difference.



You don't know who has or has not changed their minds here. If there was no chance of some on men's theories changing their minds, you nor I would take the time to post here.

So you just posting your 'opinion' to try and point out I was using my rationale instead of giving actual Scripture proof, has obviously failed.

Whatever. I for one don't want to see this thread taken over by rapture timing debate.

 

[Nancy2]

Hello douggg,
When I said slain I made a mistake. You are right, it was wounded.
I can't believe what you said that Muslims haven't got the capability to wage war. Turkey and Iran have a massive war machine. Iran is trying to enrich uranium which they will. They also run proxy wars all over the place. When it says the whole world again, the Bible is concentrating on the middle East. When it was said that Nebachadnezzer ruled the whole world, he obviously didn't rule over Europe or America. It is the same with the little horn to come.
As for the 7 heads being Roman emperors, after Nero came Galba and then Otho and they only ruled for about six months to a year. If the heads are only kings then how can this be connected to end times?
Therefore I believe the heads are kingdoms first, together with their respective kings who rule over the people in those kingdoms. The Roman empire hasn't ruled up to this time unlike the Ottoman Empire. As I said it was wounded in 1924 and it is already starting to be revived. Just watch Erdogans speeches on YouTube.
Nancy2

 

[ewq1938]

So what does 666 mean?

It's the numeric value for someone's name.

 

[Douggg]

When I said slain I made a mistake. You are right, it was wounded.

Hi Nancy, although it says wounded unto death, I think "slain" is okay in my view because in Ezekiel 28:1-10, which gives the reason the person is "slain", God brings strangers against him [Ezekiel 28:7] with their swords and kill him. But it is actually God who slays him, rhetorically implied in Ezekiel 28:9, because of the person claim to be God (2Thessalonians2:4 act).

9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

I can't believe what you said that Muslims haven't got the capability to wage war. Turkey and Iran have a massive war machine. Iran is trying to enrich uranium which they will. They also run proxy wars all over the place. When it says the whole world again, the Bible is concentrating on the middle East. When it was said that Nebachadnezzer ruled the whole world, he obviously didn't rule over Europe or America. It is the same with the little horn to come.

I did not say the Muslims do not have capability to wage war. What I wrote is that they don't have the military to enforce their will on the rest of the world. In an all out war, it would be over very quickly, and decisively, if they came up against Europe, the United States, Russia, China.

The kind of wars they wage right now are regional wars against neighboring muslim countries.

Their biggest and last war will be Gog/Magog, allied with Russia. Which will essentially end the muslim ideology, and damage Russia heavily as well.

As for the 7 heads being Roman emperors, after Nero came Galba and then Otho and they only ruled for about six months to a year. If the heads are only kings then how can this be connected to end times?

Galba was not a Julio-Claudian. Nero was the last of the Julio-Claudians.

From wikipedia....
Galba was not related to any of the emperors of the Julio-Claudian dynasty, but he was a member of a distinguished noble family.

Therefore I believe the heads are kingdoms first, together with their respective kings who rule over the people in those kingdoms. The Roman empire hasn't ruled up to this time unlike the Ottoman Empire. As I said it was wounded in 1924 and it is already starting to be revived. Just watch Erdogans speeches on YouTube.

The person we are trying to track, not only has to be of those 7 kings in Revelation 17:10, but he has to be a Jew in order to become the Antichrist - King of Israel, coming in his own name, for a while.

Erdogan, a muslim, is the wrong religion, and not a Jew.

 

[Davy]

Whatever. I for one don't want to see this thread taken over by rapture timing debate.

My suggestion then is that you put up a warning for those on a Pre-trib Rapture theory to not post at all here on this Forum!

And as far you HITTING ME and not others here for getting off the subject of the thread, you only do that because YOU YOURSELF ADHERES TO THE FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY.

So in reality, you don't have a leg to stand on with your request, and shows that you are being hypocritical.

 

[Douggg]

My suggestion then is that you put up a warning for those on a Pre-trib Rapture theory to not post at all here on this Forum!

And as far you HITTING ME and not others here for getting off the subject of the thread, you only do that because YOU YOURSELF ADHERES TO THE FALSE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY.

So in reality, you don't have a leg to stand on with your request, and shows that you are being hypocritical.

whatever.

 

[Davy]

whatever.

Exactly.

 

[dougangel]

Rome Iron legs. Pagan Rome divided into 2. Western (leg) division Papal church. Eastern (leg) Division Greek church

10 Toes Rome broken up in to modern countries.
The ten divisions of Rome
Ostrogoths - Exterminated. Vandals - Exterminated.
Franks - France. Suevi - Portugal.
Alemanni - Germany. Anglo-Saxons - England.
Heruli - Exterminated. Lombards - Italy.
Burgundians - Switzerland. Visigoths - Spain.
Clay and Iron= State and church no longer combined in modern Europe.

The seven Known world power are: 1babylon 2 Medo-Persia 3 Greece 4 Pagan Rome 5 east rome 6 west rome 7 papal rome

 

[Gottservant]

"Let him who has wisdom calculate the number of the beast"

He who has wisdom, is someone who has asked for it (the wisdom).

Speculation about who is answerable, to a name you have not asked to have the wisdom to understand, is the same as perpetrating the acts believed to be against them.

 

[Douggg]

The ten kings, the ten toes, and the little horn person come up out of the fourth kingdom.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

 

[dougangel]

The ten kings, the ten toes, and the little horn person come up out of the fourth kingdom.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

I'm talking about Dan 2 then you bring in scripture from Dan 7
This is an example of what your doing. Your have mixed Daniel 2 with Daniel 7. Although they are similar they have different details from one another and go into different areas. When I have time I will explain Dan 7:23-24

The modern nations of Europe could be the EU. I have no problem with that.

 

[Douggg]

I'm talking about Dan 2 then you bring in scripture from Dan 7
This is an example of what your doing. Your have mixed Daniel 2 with Daniel 7. Although they are similar they have different details from one another and go into different areas. When I have time I will explain Dan 7:23-24

The modern nations of Europe could be the EU. I have no problem with that.

Ezekiel and Daniel were both of the same time period of history. Both in Babylonian captivity. Ezekiel was a priest takened into captivity, and lived on the river Chebar north of the city of Babylon - where Daniel was, in captivity.

In the book of Ezekiel, in Ezekiel 28, Daniel by name is referred to in the text.

God had given part of the prophecies through Daniel and part through Ezekiel. Both books have references to the end times.

And both Daniel and Ezekiel - they each, both received prophecies about the end times in different messages to them. Daniel several, and Ezekiel several. So that is why I include Daniel 7 with Daniel 2.

It is necessary to assemble all of those prophecies together to get the correct clear understanding of the end times.

 

[dougangel]

The ten kings, the ten toes, and the little horn person come up out of the fourth kingdom.
Dan 7
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The ten divisions of Western Rome

1. Heruli. wiped out

6. Burgundians. = swiss

2. Ostrogoths. wiped out

7. Lombards. = Italy

3. Vandals. wiped out

8. Anglo/Saxons.= English

4. Franks.= French

9. Alamanni. = Germany

5. Visigoths. = spain

10. Seuvi. = Portugal

Rome destroys the 1 Ostrogoths 2 Lombard 3 Vandals

10 Horns 3 horns destroyed

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Arises from the Roman empire.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
The little horn that comes out of 3 horns will be different (diverse) to others. It will be a religious power
Persecute the saints.
Changes laws and is a law unto itself
Govern for 3 and half years 1260 literal years. Govern from 538 AD - 1798 AD the arrival of Napoleon.
The power was broken when Napoleons General took the pope captive and he died in exile.

 

[Douggg]

The little horn that comes out of 3 horns will be different (diverse) to others. It will be a religious power
Persecute the saints.
Changes laws and is a law unto itself
Govern for 3 and half years 1260 literal years. Govern from 538 AD - 1798 AD the arrival of Napoleon.
The power was broken when Napoleons General took the pope captive and he died in exile.

The little horn comes out from among 10 horns. (you may have mis-typed)

Well, when you start changing days in years -universally, that is not going to yield the correct results.

 

[dougangel]

The little horn comes out from among 10 horns. (you may have mis-typed)

Well, when you start changing days in years -universally, that is not going to yield the correct results.

I think your nit picking there about the little horns.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
The little horn subdues the three kings (horns) or rises out of them.
Anyway in that period of history those 3 tribes ceased to exist and didn't morph into modern nations.

When it's in the right context and fits the prophecy the day is a year is used by many bible commenters. So your flying in the face of many astute people. It's is a prophecy key given in the scriptures.

Notice verse 24. the 10horns, are 10 kings.

 

[Douggg]

Anyway in that period of history those 3 tribes ceased to exist and didn't morph into modern nations.

Notice verse 24. the 10horns, are 10 kings.

The stone cut without hands - is Jesus. He strikes the Daniel 2 statue on the feet with the ten toes, the ten kings (of Daniel 7:24).

The ten kings, the ten toes of the feet of iron and clay, are end times kings in power, when Jesus returns. The ten toes are not nations, not tribes, nor historic. But end times kings of the fourth empire.

Daniel 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

When it's in the right context and fits the prophecy the day is a year is used by many bible commenters. So your flying in the face of many astute people. It's is a prophecy key given in the scriptures.

Whatever. The 1260 days of Revelation 11 of the two witnesses' testimony are literal days, not years. Their bodies lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem 3 1/2 days not years.

And in Revelation 12:6, it is 1260 days, then the war in the (second) heaven, and in Revelation 12:14, Satan having but a time, times, half time left. A total of 7 years.

 

[dougangel]

The stone cut without hands - is Jesus. He strikes the Daniel 2 statue on the feet with the ten toes, the ten kings (of Daniel 7:24).

The ten kings, the ten toes of the feet of iron and clay, are end times kings in power, when Jesus returns. The ten toes are not nations, not tribes, nor historic. But end times kings of the fourth empire.

Daniel 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

In Dan 7 Dan 2. The end of age ends with Christ having victory I have no problem with that. I've never discussed that.
Dan 2 Doesn't go into the details of the anti Christ. I don't think Dan 7 does either I think it's historical. I know you disagree with me.

You have to look at the context of the individual prophecies and what there saying not just mix them together.

I do think some of the Revelation references to time times and a half do though.

 

[Douggg]

I do think some of the Revelation references to time times and a half do though.

There are two paths to the 7 years in Revelation.

(Revelation 11 path) 1260 days (the first half) + 3 1/2 days + 42 months (1256.5 days) = the 7years

(Revelation 12 path) 1260 days (the first half) + undisclosed war in heaven time + the time, times, half time = the 7 years.

___________________________________________________________

The 1290 days and the 1335 days in Daniel 12 are relevant to when the Abomination of desolation is setup.

1290 days from when it is setup - to the sign of the Son of Man in heaven (Matthew 24:30a).

then 45 days later, during which the armies of the nations assemble at Armageddon to make war on Jesus, Jesus returns on the 1335 day, descends to earth. (Matthew 24:30b)

 

[iamlamad]

Hi all, this is my very first post here, so a quick update on who I am.

I am a young white Englishman, with non-devout christian beliefs, only strong beliefs in god himself, I am a true believer in the "afterlife" and God as my final saviour.

Recently due to the corona virus outbreak, I looked for guidance in the Holy Bible and learnt of The Revelations and the End Times. In, these End Time learnings I came across "The Mark of the beast" and the "False Prophet".

To cut a long story as short as I can, I looked much further into this.

I believe the Mark of the Beast will be a vaccine microchip placed between the thumb and finger, incorporating a bitcoin or other blockchain "wallet" to store and hold currency, allowing us to buy and sell, this is why governments are printing money at alarming rates and devaluing their own currencies because soon it will not matter if they are transferring to a new currency. They will eventually restrict people to only buy and sell with this new currency.

I believe the Anti-Christ is Donald Trump, he has many past afflications with the number 666, including purchasing buildings with the number 666, paying 666million for properties and various other stuff relating to 666... He has already committed blasphemy on multiple occasions, he has declared to be "the chosen one" and "king of israel" and "the second coming of christ". He has already been leader for 38 months and the beast is said to be leader for 42 months. He comes from the "sea of people" and a "sea of wealth". He will be wounded by the deadly coronavirus and then healed. It all seems to fit.

The false prophet is Bill Gates... He will be the one to promote the usage of the"mark of the beast" the vaccine microchip, it will be almost impossible for people to not take this mark and will be deceived.

Could "The Rapture" be the virus and be happening now?

What does everyone/ anyone think about this?

Feel free to ask me any questions you wish, I will watch this post for a couple of days to see how it evolves.

Thankyou, and be safe in these worrying times!

To keep things in perspective, you have left out the chronology of Revelation. No ONE will know for sure who the Beast will be until after he is revealed - when he walks into the new Jewish temple in Jerusalem and declares that HE is the God of the Jews. Then, the world will know.

No one will know why the False Prophet will be either, until suddenly he appears with the Beast.

Now, before any of this, the first 6 trumpet judgments must come. But before the trumpets come, ANY of them, the 7th seal must be opened. But before the 7th seal, the 6th seal must be opened to start the Day of the Lord and His wrath.

ANY can guess, but that is all it is: a guess. And chances are just about 100% that the Beast or the False Prophet will NOT come from America.