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Featured Mark of the beast, Anti-Christ and False Prophet Discussion.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Newbeliever123, Mar 27, 2020.

  1. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    I don't know what a "vaccine microchip" is, vaccines don't require microchipping. I also don't consider this to be a worry worth having, I see no reason to be worried that I would have to be microchipped or be forced to use crypto-currency. These are unfounded concerns.

    But, in a purely hypothetical scenario, no, I wouldn't be okay with the government making me, or anyone else, get a microchip anywhere on my body. But it has nothing to do with "the end times", it is purely a matter of individual liberty.

    As far as the current resident of the White House goes, I am hopeful that come the November elections he'll be ousted and replaced by a much more competent person--and frankly, just about anyone would be more competent and a better fit for the job than Donald Trump. But no, I don't think Donald Trump is the Antichrist, not in the "end of the world big bad evil guy" sense. I think Donald Trump is certainly an antithesis to everything Jesus said and did and what Christianity stands for; but that's nothing new.

    Vaccines don't use microchipping. So, again, I don't see any concern or reason for concern about this. I am in prayer that a vaccine will be developed sooner than later, and that it will be available to the public, especially the most vulnerable, as soon as possible.

    COVID-19 is not the end of the world. We've experienced far worse in history than this, by many times over. A century ago the Spanish Flu infected over a quarter of the world's population, and killed 50 million people. This isn't anywhere near that. The Black Death wiped out 50% of Europe. European contact with the New World resulted in the death of as much as 90% of the Native Americans. The world has endured crises far worse, diseases far more virulent and deadly, and has come through on the other side.

    This too will pass.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  2. Amittai

    Amittai monitor evaluator

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    To remind that the rapture of some will precede by only hours; not years
     
  3. Josheb

    Josheb Christian Supporter

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    Revelation 13:11-18
    "Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon. He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life. And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six."

    .
    How would the apostle John and his first century readers have understood the phrase "a mark on their right hand or their forehead"?

    That is where you need to start. That question then begets, how would the first century Christian have understood the "a mark on their right hand or their forehead" to mean "a vaccine microchip placed between the thumb and finger, incorporating a bitcoin or other blockchain wallet to store and hold currency"? The answer is, of course, "Neither John nor his first century readers would have understood the mark to be a vaccine microchip incorporating a bitcoin wallet to store currency. Such an interpretation would render the scripture meaningless for 20 centuries of Christians."



    Newbeliever, pick up a copy of Gary Demar's book, "Last Days Madness" and Anthony Hoekema's "The Bible and the Future."
     
  4. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't see why that's problematic
     
  5. Josheb

    Josheb Christian Supporter

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    The question is a contradiction in terms. Individuals do not issue currency. Governments and their treasuries issue currency. Americans, for one, and I doubt this is true of many Britains, will never accept microchips to be implanted for anything from a "king of Israel," or the second coming of Christ." Do please actually think about what you are posting because it is delusional.

    The Bible is not delusional.


    I, for my part, would have no problem having a banking chip implanted if and when such technology remains compatible with human physiology and impervious to hacking. Since no such technology currently exists COVID is not an indicator of the end times.
    That is a false dichotomy. Scripture and reality are not mutually exclusive conditions. You should most definitely take a close look at scripture, beginning with the beginning of the book of Revevlation where you will see John is told the things he is describing will come quickly because the time was then near. In the last chapter you will find the same admonition given. They were near to John's day, not ours. Revelation 1:1-3 and Revelation 22:7-10.
     
  6. Josheb

    Josheb Christian Supporter

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    Scripture is never meaningless.

    Take this in reverse. Let's say someone comes here to the forum and makes a case for the events of Revelation to occur in October of the year 4073. If in fact that case is true and correct then you and I and every single person living here in the 21st century need not give a moments thought to Revelation 13 because none of it applies to us! It applies solely to those living in 4073.

    Scripture is never meaningless.
     
  7. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Aren't you saying the same thing then? That none of Revelation applies to us in the w1st century?
     
  8. Josheb

    Josheb Christian Supporter

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    One of the most basic rules in properly understanding scripture (exegesis) is to first understand the text as the original author and his original hearers/readers would have understood it.

    Then, and only then apply that understanding to your own life. We don't make up meanings after the fact. We most certainly don't make up meanings 21 centuries later and imagine that's what God meant. God meant for the people to whom He was speaking originally to understand what He was saying.

    Every hermeneutical model, and there are several of them, stands firmly on this principle of first understanding the text as the original author and reader would have understood it. Look it up if there's any doubt.
     
  9. solid_core

    solid_core Well-Known Member

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    Can you explain to me why would God give the church in the first century message about Donald Trump and microchips? What would be the point? What use would it be for the church for 2,000 years?
     
  10. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

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    I think that is a classic example of the dangers spoken of in 2 Peter 3:16.
     
  11. RisenInJesus

    RisenInJesus Well-Known Member

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    Interesting post and though I think some of your thoughts are...getting close I don’t see your entire scenario lining up with the scriptures. I think others have already highlighted some of the reasons why.
    You may be interested in this...


    Bill Gates Is Quite Confident That He Can Leverage The Coronavirus To Make Every Person On Earth Receive A Vaccination With Digital ID • Now The End Begins
     
  12. Josheb

    Josheb Christian Supporter

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    Nope.

    Because scripture has meaning to us today because prophesy has been fulfilled. Jesus is the fulfillment of all the Messianic prophesy of the Old Testament, yes? We Christians would uniformly dismiss anyone arguing Jesus is not the Messiah and would necessarily mean that position means all of the Messianic prophesy Christians believe fulfilled is yet to be fulfilled and all of Jesus' words might be really cool and wise teachings but they are not divine truth. There's just some ordinary guy's opinion because Jesus is not the Messiah.

    It is because Jesus is the Messiah that his words have significance. It is because he is the fulfillment of prophesy that his teachings have significance. Every Jew living in the inter-testamental period had no Messiah to rely upon. All those prophesies had (unfulfilled) meaning, but no application. The same goes for all those promises of what we now understand to be the Holy Spirit indwelling us. Unfulfilled meaning but no application. Once fulfilled the meaning becomes a fulfilled meaning; a fulfilled meaning full of application.


    The eschatology of this op means no one between the first century and the twenty-first century need give Revelation a single thought. It also means God was speaking what amounts to jibberish to the first century Spirit-indwelt Christian.

    Revelation 13:11-18
    "Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon. He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life. And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a vaccine microchip placed between the thumb and finger, incorporating a bitcoin or other blockchain wallet to store and hold currency, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six."

    That would have been meaningless nonsense to the original readers. They didn't know what a vaccine is. They didn't know what a microchip is. They didn't know what a bitcoin is. They didn't know what a blockchain is. They didn't even have the kind of centralized banking we now have. They most certainly did not have the technology to implant anything like any of that into the human body, and in likelihood they considered that an adulteration of their body, the temple of God.
     
  13. Newbeliever123

    Newbeliever123 New Member

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    I just want to take a minute to reiterate that I am a new follower to reading the scriptures of god, and mean no ill harm by what I say or infer in my posts, if I make any comment that you should deem hurtful or in bad context, please regard my lack of experience of the Christianity teachings in their entirety. I have always held true faith in god and pray to him in times of need I value the knowledge that people are endowing me with here greatly.

    Enthusiasts of microchipping technologies including bill gates are stating that now would be a great time to have the implants inserted in conjunction with the covid 19 vaccine if/when one is created, they are said to include an agreed upon blockchain address embedded within.

    i.e whilst we give you the covid 19 vaccine, to a large scale of people, possibly 80% of the first world populations of any rich, poor, slave and free peoples, can we also implant this new and very small microchip into your hand, if you don't want to utilise it then don't, but lets just implant it for you anyway so you can decide at a later date. These microchips will allow ease of access to buildings, payments, social media, you will be made to feel like your missing out on not getting one implanted.

    I believe that the persons in the scriptures saw the embedded microchips between the thumb and forefinger and used this as an indication as the "mark of the beast". These microchips will leave albeit small but visible scars for a small time and will raise the skin as a lump.

    If Donald Trump is the antichrist he will look to unite with other countries, including the UK and other European countries, in an attempt to create a global currency on the blockhain, for use in buying and selling.

    If you note, at the moment they are printing currency in both America and UK at alarming rates, using the facade that they are holding up the stock market in this global crisis, this is because they may have already agreed upon utilising a new global currency and therefore do not care that they are currently devaluing their own currencies at never before seen levels, theyre printing trillions and stating unlimited quantitative easing for the global markets, this is absurd, and has never happened before, to my knowledge.

    Maybe because exact time scale of the antichrists reveal is unknown? also the image that the antichrist would take in its physical form or the method and physical form of the mark of the beast is unknown?... only what is told is that at some point the antichrist will reveal himself and will control people that hold a mark, whatever that mark may represent in its physical form. As you probably know there is no length mentioned in the bible of "the church age"; it is of AD 33 till present and then follows a 7 year tribulation period, if it is 2000 years from the first century message, then so be it!
     
  14. Newbeliever123

    Newbeliever123 New Member

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    What i'm inferring is that maybe the physical form that the beast will take, the physical form that "the mark of the beast" and the timescale of the revealing of the beast are all unknowns, these 3 things can all be changed by the deceitful antichrist at any point in time, all that is said is the the beasts issues a mark, that will restrict buying and selling.

    If we take these microchips in large enough quantities as a population both America and other countries, you can very well believe that we will be limited to purchases made through these microchips at some point in time.

    Hypothetically; The beast may have revealed himself a thousand years before now, but would have embodied a physical presence of another being, and the mark would be of a different specification to the one I am implying, but maybe the beast is free to take on any physical form in our world as opposed to his spiritual form in another, and the same for the "mark" so long as it is on the hand or forehead and limits the buying and selling of goods for the greater population in some way
     
  15. Newbeliever123

    Newbeliever123 New Member

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    Thankyou for taking the time to see my interpretations from my viewpoint and not just instantly dismissing me as delusional. :help:

    My reason for being here is to hopefully affirm to myself from the interpretations/ teachings of other Christians, that these chips are not going to be "the mark" because I do believe they will have beneficial long lasting positives for the greater population and would be in deep regret for me or my family not to take these microchips and or a coronavirus vaccine if the opportunity does so arise. :clap:
     
  16. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Welcome! I suggest you skip controversial topics and accept Jesus Christ of Nazareth as your Lord and Savior. From there learn about Him and His teachings through the Sermon on the Mount. If you focus on death and destruction rather than "living waters" then you miss regeneration through His Holy Spirit.
    Be blessed, and be healthy.
     
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  17. Newbeliever123

    Newbeliever123 New Member

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    Probably something I've needed to hear for a long time, Thankyou.

    Thankyou, and to you too!
     
  18. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member

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    My cat has a microchip but is not in her paw or forehead, it is in her neck. She doesn't worship anyone except my wife in the morning when she feeds her and me in the evening when I feed her.

    Oh she does like to come and sit on my lap when we are doing our bible reading.
     
  19. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    It's probably worth noting here that the Bible never actually mentions a "7 year tribulation period". Some people take different parts of the Bible and add certain things together, a number here and a number there, and doing this they tend to make certain conclusions, such as that there will be 7 years of tribulation at some point in the future. But, strictly speaking, the Bible never actually says this. Whether this kind of calculating is right or wrong is a matter of debate among different Christians.

    I say this, because I think it's important for someone new to Christianity to not get overwhelmed with these kinds of bits of minutia.

    As you are learning, don't be afraid to keep asking questions and to challenge what you are told or what you hear. Keep asking, keep challenging.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  20. Josheb

    Josheb Christian Supporter

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    None of which has anything to do with scripture and none of which would possibly have been understood by the people to whom Revelation was first written.

    You are a new believer, Newbeliever. You are being taught some very wrong and very bad views of scripture. I sounds like what you're being taught is called Dispensational Premillennialism, or more generically far-futurism. It is an eschatology (doctrine of end times) that was invented in the early to mid-1800s by a guy names John Darby. Google "dispensational premillennialism." Google "John Darby." Verify what I just posted. Get those books I listed in my previous post and read them. More importnantly, actually read the Bible and a book of exegesis.

    John Darby's views were a significant departure from 18 centuries of long-held Church thinking, doctrine, and practice.
    They are known. What isn't known is how, exactly, what happened fits scripture. Revelation states the things that would happen would happen quickly because the time was near. The word "near" means near. The word near does not mean more than 2000 years in the future. Logic is your friend. God said "near" and He meant it. The problem is the canon of scripture is closed and since the 1800s Darbyites have been trying to convince people "near" means "any day now."

    They are wrong.

    "Last Days Madness" by Gary Demar
    "The Bible and the Future" by Anthony Hoekema

    One of the best exegeses of the Bible's end times content is Kim Riddlebarger's "The Case for Amillennialism." I am not sold on his conclusions but exegetically it is better than anything you will ever read from a Dispensationalist.
     
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