Futurist Only Mark, Number, Name of the beast

[Douggg]

@Sabertooth

I read one of your post in another thread, but the topic seemed to be drifting outside of the original posters intent. So I am opening this thread for everyone's (futurists) discussion on the Mark, Number, Name of the beast.

In your blog, you wrote...

"Nobody knows for sure what is meant by "the number" of one's name. His initials would be a good guess, consistent with the rationale given above, but ς [for 6] does not occur in the upper case.¹ The closest approximation would be ΧΞΣ** which is not a valid notation for any number. (That doesn't rule out initials in the letter/number system of a different language, though [like, say, Babylonian?].)"

I do not know what the person's name is, nor what the mark is. But in Revelation 14:11, I think it is significant that it is not just the mark, but the mark of his name.

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

So, I am thinking the mark of his name will be something like a lightning bolt, for example, if the person claims to be "Zeus" in the flesh.

I think Antiochus, who set the image up of Zeus in the temple, believed that he was Zeus in the flesh - I read somewhere.

So I think you need to consider in your anaylsis that the mark is tied to being the mark of his name - more of a symbol.

I personally don't think the 666 number is the summation of the person's initials (to his name). My reason is that initials would be redundant, because one of the three stamps (I can't think of a better word right now) is the person's name.

If initials, I would lean more to being the mark of his name.

the three stamps
the number of his name - which will be the literal number "666".
the name - the person's name.
the mark of his name - a symbol of some sort, imo.

The one common thing in all three stamps is the person's name.

 

[Douggg]

numerals do so in six alphas.let's organize....everyone, within your post, please summarize your comments under these headings in blue. So we can get some cumulative ideas.


the number of his name - which will be the literal number "666".
could be roman numerals, and not arabic numbers (@Douggg)
In Greek and Hebrew [600+60+6] can be represented in three alpha characters. (@Sabertooth)
In Roman, numerals do so in six alphas. (@Sabertooth)
The beast's name initials yield 666. ( @Sabertooth )
The oldest manuscripts - used words, not alphas (letters), to spell out six hundred, sixty, and six. (@Radagast )

the name - the person's name.
(your comments)

the mark of his name - a symbol of some sort, imo.
a lightning bolt if the person claims to be Zeus. (@Douggg)
a brain implant, (@Brian Mcnamee )

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Douggg]

Nebuchadnezzar went on the nations as the yoke of iron. Jeremiah 30 shows after the time of Jacob's trouble - a yoke - his - his yoke will break..

So, you are thinking the beast's name is Nebuchadnezzar?

 

[Sabertooth]

@Douggg ,
Per Revelation 13,

• his [full] name,
• the "number" of his name &
• his logo*

will each be acceptable and, therefore, interchangeable. They will all be variations of his identity. No one of these forms will be chosen by everybody. Those who opt for his full name or logo won't have a 666 anywhere on their body.

His initials is consistent with the identity theme and can quantitatively** be 666 without any special algorithm. It would be "hiding in plain sight...!"

*If KJV punctuation is correct.
**Greek, Hebrew and, possibly, others represent [600+60+6] in three alpha characters. (I do not know the Hebrew notation.) Roman numerals do so in six alphas. (Three sixes, or nines, strung together are highly unlikely.)

 

[GospelS]

let's organize....everyone, within your post, please summarize your comments under these headings in blue. So we can get some cumulative ideas.


the number of his name - which will be the literal number "666".
could be roman numerals, and not arabic numbers (@Douggg)
(your comments)

the name - the person's name.
(your comments)

the mark of his name - a symbol of some sort, imo.
a lightning bolt if the person claims to be Zeus. (@Douggg)
(your comments)

the number of his name - which will be the literal number "666".

This verse in about 666 in Revelation 13:18 tells that it takes wisdom to figure out the person whom it represents. IMO, if you consider that the number of his name will be literal "666", then it would not require much divine wisdom to figure this out. It will be obvious to all.

 

[Sabertooth]

...that it takes wisdom to figure out the person whom it represents.

That is why I don't believe it will be obvious to the general population.

Just to have it in this thread, I believe that Wisdom is found in John 16:13.
Blog post in OP, Observations About The Mark Of The Beast... | Christian Forums

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

The when is the most important aspect as Rev 13 shows this to be with exactly 42 months to go and it follows the beast surviving a mortal wound and then comes the mark and the image of the beast. We know that once you take the mark you cannot untake it and this is likened to blaspheme of the Holy Spirit in that it is unforgivable. The 3 variations you brought up could be dividing the world into classes such as elite, military and citizen or elite free and slave or something into which designates other rights or restrictions. We won’t know it until it happens. The beast is destroyed when the LORD comes and 2 Thess says the man of sin is revealed in the temple claiming to be some sort of God. Dan 7 describes the same one as the pompous one who is going to persecute just like the beast for a time times and half a time. All three are said to be destroyed at the brightness of the coming of the King of Kings.

Some have suggested that this mark will be like taking a step of human evolution and could include a implant in the brain that would merge your mind with artificial intelligence. Your perceptions then might not be freely deduced and you would perhaps alter your state of being created in the image of God and it would therefore be impossible to repent.


This stuff is scary as we see the 3rd temple the very stage for the abomination being prepared for and as in Jesus day the people were in anticipation. These events will come on the world soon. We will find out then I hope from a great distance.

 

[Sabertooth]

(That is just a little outside the scope of this thread.)

 

[Douggg]

This verse in about 666 in Revelation 13:18 tells that it takes wisdom to figure out the person whom it represents. IMO, if you consider that the number of his name will be literal "666", then it would not require much divine wisdom to figure this out. It will be obvious to all.

Yes, the number "666" stamp would be obvious at the time it is implemented.

But, only speaking for myself, what I am seeking is ahead of time, to make the connection between the literal number 666 and the person's name - to determine his name ahead of time.

 

[Douggg]

will each be acceptable and, therefore, interchangeable. They will all be variations of his identity. No one of these forms will be chosen by everybody. Those who opt for his full name or logo won't have a 666 anywhere on their body.

At the future time when the stamping on a person is required.

Just to have it in this thread, I believe that Wisdom is found in John 16:13.
Blog post in OP, Observations About The Mark Of The Beast... | Christian Forums

Okay, but Christianity is still seeking the answer(s) right now, imo.

 

[Douggg]

could include a implant in the brain that would merge your mind with artificial intelligence.

I added your comment in post 2.

 

[Douggg]

**Greek, Hebrew and, possibly, others represent [600+60+6] in three alpha characters. (I do not know the Hebrew notation.) Roman numerals do so in six alphas. (Three sixes, or nines, strung together are highly unlikely.)

Go to post 2. I added your comment.

 

[Sabertooth]

At the future time when the stamping on a person is required.

I am not sure what this was in response to.

 

[Radagast]

"Nobody knows for sure what is meant by "the number" of one's name. His initials would be a good guess, consistent with the rationale given above, but ς

Just a few comments:

1. The oldest manuscripts spell the number out in words (hexakosioi hexēkonta hex = six hundred and sixty-six), like so:

2. It is later manuscripts that use the Greek numerals χξϛ.

3. You are confusing that last symbol, ϛ (stigma) with the quite similar ς (final sigma), which has a totally different meaning (numerically, it would mean 200).

4. The ϛ (stigma) symbol was only invented about 800 years after Christ, as a shorthand for the letter combination στ = ST (prior to that, the Greeks used ϝ to mean 6).

5. If the original had used numerals, they would have been in uppercase, looking like this: ΧΞϜ (lowercase hadn't been invented yet).

6. The number cannot refer to initials, because Ϝ was an obsolete letter. Outside of arithmetic, it just wasn't used anymore.

 

[Douggg]

I am not sure what this was in response to.

I wasn't very clear, was I ?

Okay, what I was responding to was this...

"will each be acceptable and, therefore, interchangeable. They will all be variations of his identity. No one of these forms will be chosen by everybody. Those who opt for his full name or logo won't have a 666 anywhere on their body."

.... we are not at that stage yet. Regarding the part underlined....
it seems to be as a minimum to display in their forehead, or right hand, either the mark, the name, or the number.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

[Douggg]

Just a few comments:

1. The oldest manuscripts spell the number out in words (hexakosioi hexēkonta hex = six hundred and sixty-six), like so:

View attachment 259583

2. It is later manuscripts that use the Greek numerals χξϛ.

3. You are confusing that last symbol, ϛ (stigma) with the quite similar ς (final sigma), which has a totally different meaning (numerically, it means 200).

4. The ϛ (stigma) symbol was only invented about 800 years after Christ, as a shorthand for the letter combination στ = ST (prior to that, the Greeks used ϝ to mean 6).

5. If the original had used numerals, they would have been in uppercase, looking like this: ΧΞϜ

6. The number cannot refer to initials, because Ϝ was an obsolete letter. Outside of arithmetic, it just wasn't used anymore.

I was quoting @Sabertooth, on the initials idea in my opening post. So I will let him respond.
______________________________________________________________
To make sure I am understanding you correctly....

Since the oldest manuscript did not use letters as numbers but spelled out in words six hundred, sixty, and six - the use of individual letters to represent 600, 60, 6 is irrelevant?

 

[Douggg]

Just a few comments:

1. The oldest manuscripts spell the number out in words (hexakosioi hexēkonta hex = six hundred and sixty-six), like so:

View attachment 259583

2. It is later manuscripts that use the Greek numerals χξϛ.

3. You are confusing that last symbol, ϛ (stigma) with the quite similar ς (final sigma), which has a totally different meaning (numerically, it would mean 200).

4. The ϛ (stigma) symbol was only invented about 800 years after Christ, as a shorthand for the letter combination στ = ST (prior to that, the Greeks used ϝ to mean 6).

5. If the original had used numerals, they would have been in uppercase, looking like this: ΧΞϜ (lowercase hadn't been invented yet).

6. The number cannot refer to initials, because Ϝ was an obsolete letter. Outside of arithmetic, it just wasn't used anymore.

Hi Radagast,

Are you of the opinion, like me, that the "666" on people's foreheads and right hands will be a digit, and not words, nor letters?