Mark Driscoll 'Crashes' John MacArthur's Strange Fire Conference?

[Watchman4hm]

This whole thing is heightening into a Christian soap opera for the world to laugh at and trample underfoot. .

Like this board..

 

[Andrea411]

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. A pastor can have all of these things and be a cessationist. But he crosses the line if he says that the sign gifts are demonic.
Here you go.

clearly you do not like Driscoll but these statements are not things I haven't heard from anyone else..... was Jesus tempted like all the rest of us or not?

Mark Driscoll says that Jesus lusted after women and wanted to sleep with his female disciples.

“If you’re tempted to these sorts of things — including sexual sin — some of you say, “Now Mark, Jesus wasn’t sexually tempted.” Well, of course he was — 30 something year old single man who had women who adored him. You don’t think he ever wanted the comfort of a woman? You don’t think he ever got tired of going to bed by himself? You don’t think that he didn’t once want to have intimate relations with a woman? He was tempted.”
(Mark Driscoll – “How Human was Jesus?”, October 15th 2006.)

“Could Jesus have Sinned?
While systematic theologians have spilled much ink on this point, the precise biblical answer is that we do not know. The Bible never addresses, much less answers, the question. Some will find this disturbing, but the Bible is clear that humility is the first requirement for a good theologian, so that we can be satisfied with what the God of the universe thinks we need to know.”

 

[prov1810]

clearly you do not like Driscoll but these statements are not things I haven't heard from anyone else..... was Jesus tempted like all the rest of us or not?

He did not have the desire to sin. He would have to be deluded, morally depraved to be tempted in that way.

After He fasted in the desert, He was hungry - He felt what we feel, but He wasn't ready to do something wrong to get food. To say that Jesus entertained inappropriate contentographic thoughts about a woman, or that He felt sorry for Himself because He was single - this isn't authentic humanity, it's sinful humanity. Women know when men look at them in that way. It's creepy. Jesus wasn't like that.

 

[Dusky Mouse]

Rules for Sexuality - YouTube

 

[Gospel Guy]

You don’t think he ever got tired of going to bed by himself? You don’t think that he didn’t once want to have intimate relations with a woman? He was tempted.”
(Mark Driscoll – “How Human was Jesus?”, October 15th 2006.)

The Bible clearly teaches that He was tempted, tested, and tried in ALL points as we are, yet without sin (Hebrews 4:15)... the difference is, that He NEVER allowed the temptation to ENTER IN and choke the Word causing Him to become unfruitful (Mark 4:14-20) which would have caused Him to sin.

James 1:14,15
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death.

Obviously Jesus had perfect understanding of this so He never allowed any temptation to ENTER IN to his thinking where He accepted it, which would have taken root in His heart and cause Him to produce actions (fruit) that were sinful.

When you study the life of Jesus, it's obvious that 'ol slewfoot tried everything he possibly could to get Jesus to sin... but he failed cause Jesus never sinned, so he never actually lusted after any woman as that would have been a sin.

What Driscoll is saying is scripture on this point, and religious minded people are saying that he is claiming Jesus committed sin which is because they are liars are are attacking what God's Word teaches cause they be some ignorant of what God's Word teaches on this subject... obviously

 

[Dusky Mouse]

Like this board..

:o Um, well then what soap character are you playing here brother?

That Driscoll would think Jesus had a sin nature or was tempted demonstrates he is projecting his own character onto the Messiah. Otherwise, if he knew the scriptures, he'd know better.

1 John 3:5

You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.

102 Bible Verses about Jesus Did Not Have A Sin Nature

 

[Gospel Guy]

:o Um, well then what soap character are you playing here brother?

That Driscoll would think Jesus had a sin nature or was tempted demonstrates he is projecting his own character onto the Messiah. Otherwise, if he knew the scriptures, he'd know better.

1 John 3:5

You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.

102 Bible Verses about Jesus Did Not Have A Sin Nature

Apparently, you do not read the Bible much...


Hebrews 4:15,16
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Hebrews 2:16-18
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham (human form).
Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to aid / help them that are tempted.


Please don't let God's Word get in the way of what you believe.

Just because He was tempted, does not mean there was any sin in Him since the Bible clearly states He never committed any sin.

 

[Tobias]

clearly you do not like Driscoll but these statements are not things I haven't heard from anyone else..... was Jesus tempted like all the rest of us or not?

Mark Driscoll says that Jesus lusted after women and wanted to sleep with his female disciples.

“If you’re tempted to these sorts of things — including sexual sin — some of you say, “Now Mark, Jesus wasn’t sexually tempted.” Well, of course he was — 30 something year old single man who had women who adored him. You don’t think he ever wanted the comfort of a woman? You don’t think he ever got tired of going to bed by himself? You don’t think that he didn’t once want to have intimate relations with a woman? He was tempted.”
(Mark Driscoll – “How Human was Jesus?”, October 15th 2006.)

“Could Jesus have Sinned?
While systematic theologians have spilled much ink on this point, the precise biblical answer is that we do not know. The Bible never addresses, much less answers, the question. Some will find this disturbing, but the Bible is clear that humility is the first requirement for a good theologian, so that we can be satisfied with what the God of the universe thinks we need to know.”

It looks like Driscoll is saying that Jesus was tempted. Not that he actually gave into temptation and lusted!

This is your typical Heresy Hunter bold face lie... in the name of God, of course. Exaggerate the statement, and twist it into something it is not.

I would hope that every Christian guy knows the difference between being tempted to lust, and actually giving in to temptation and doing it. Because if we don't, then what are we going to do? Go around all day feeling defeated and repenting of "sin" we have no control over, because we think that the devil's suggestion to sin is actually, sin?

 

[Dusky Mouse]

Oh, you are quite mistaken.
For instance, Hebrews is an epistle written by Paul who did not know Jesus. As is evidenced by Hebrews 4:15-16.


Those letters, Hebrews as well as other epistles,("letters") are Paul's instructions and thoughts directed to those churches he began. You will find that Paul does not reiterate anything that Jesus actually said when Paul writes his letters. Rather, he ministers in the name of Christ.

Apparently, you do not read the Bible much...


Hebrews 4:15,16
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Hebrews 2:16-18
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham (human form).
Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to aid / help them that are tempted.


Please don't let God's Word get in the way of what you believe.

Just because He was tempted, does not mean there was any sin in Him since the Bible clearly states He never committed any sin.

 

[Tobias]

It's sad the way that people can lie about what a famous preacher says, and all we hear is that "Driscoll teaches that Jesus lusted" when in fact he never said that. But every search engine will repeat the lie and lead you to the site of the liar; when all it takes is two seconds of reading to see the difference.

I guess most people just read the headlines. And pass judgement accordingly.



*he said, passing swift and terrible judgement upon the person who wrote this!

 

[Faulty]

It's sad the way that people can lie about what a famous preacher says, and all we hear is that "Driscoll teaches that Jesus lusted" when in fact he never said that. But every search engine will repeat the lie and lead you to the site of the liar; when all it takes is two seconds of reading to see the difference.

I guess most people just read the headlines. And pass judgement accordingly.



*he said, passing swift and terrible judgement upon the person who wrote this!

This is the man who once bragged he believed in "blessed subtraction" where he would "throw off the bus" anyone who doesn't come in agreement for his vision for his church, and that there was already a trail of dead bodies under the bus and by God's grace it will someday become a mountain of bodies.

Not exactly a shepherds attitude. Just search for his name and "blessed subtraction", or "under the bus", and it will probably give you what you need.

 

[Dusky Mouse]

It's sad the way that people can lie about what a famous preacher says, and all we hear is that "Driscoll teaches that Jesus lusted" when in fact he never said that. But every search engine will repeat the lie and lead you to the site of the liar; when all it takes is two seconds of reading to see the difference.

I guess most people just read the headlines. And pass judgement accordingly.



*he said, passing swift and terrible judgement upon the person who wrote this!

“If you’re tempted to these sorts of things — including sexual sin — some of you say, “Now Mark, Jesus wasn’t sexually tempted.” Well, of course he was — 30 something year old single man who had women who adored him. You don’t think he ever wanted the comfort of a woman? You don’t think he ever got tired of going to bed by himself? You don’t think that he didn’t once want to have intimate relations with a woman? He was tempted.”
(Mark Driscoll – “How Human was Jesus?”, October 15th 2006.)

 

[prov1810]

This is your typical Heresy Hunter bold face lie... in the name of God, of course. Exaggerate the statement, and twist it into something it is not.

The statement comes from a man who is too goofy to be reverent and too sex-on-the-brain-24/7 to handle a topic like this with any sobriety or good taste. He is frequently careless about what he says. Not that these statements are accidents. He just doesn't care.

 

[Watchman4hm]

:o Um, well then what soap character are you playing here brother?

Why do I need to play a part?..I exist for Him, not all this sibling rivalry garbage that goes on here..

 

[Dusky Mouse]

This is the man who once bragged he believed in "blessed subtraction" where he would "throw off the bus" anyone who doesn't come in agreement for his vision for his church, and that there was already a trail of dead bodies under the bus and by God's grace it will someday become a mountain of bodies.

Not exactly a shepherds attitude. Just search for his name and "blessed subtraction", or "under the bus", and it will probably give you what you need.

Yes, many people know of MD's um, well, pride?

Christian Research Network: 27 September 2012
Christian Apologist and Radio Show Host Chris Rosebrough Calls for Mark Driscoll to Repent

...
At this point, Rosebrough asks the question, “Does Mark Driscoll not preach to himself?” This question stems from an unavoidable contradiction between Driscoll’s admonition in this sermon, and words that he delivered in 2007 to a group of his Acts 29 Network pastors. In that 2007 message to church planters, Driscoll taught the following:

Here’s what I’ve learned. You cast vision for your mission; and if people don’t sign up, you move on. You move on. There are people that are gonna to die in the wilderness and there are people that are gonna take the hill. That’s just how it is.
Too many guys waste too much time trying to move stiff-necked, stubborn, obstinate people. (pause) I am all about blessed subtraction. There is a pile of dead bodies behind the Mars Hill bus (laughs) and by God’s grace it’ll be a mountain by the time we’re done.
You either get on the bus or you get run over by the bus. Those are the options; but the bus ain’t gonna stop. And I’m just a—I’m just a guy who is like, “Look, we love ya, but, this is what we’re doing.” There’s a few kinda people. There’s people who get in the way of the bus.
Source

​

*Very important in the spirit of context to click that Source link for more reading.

Edit) Should have added this from the CRN link/article: PirateRadio LINK

 

[Andrea411]

This is the man who once bragged he believed in "blessed subtraction" where he would "throw off the bus" anyone who doesn't come in agreement for his vision for his church, and that there was already a trail of dead bodies under the bus and by God's grace it will someday become a mountain of bodies.

Not exactly a shepherds attitude. Just search for his name and "blessed subtraction", or "under the bus", and it will probably give you what you need.

so your saying M.Driscoll isn't perfect...hmmmm glad I don't worship him but even though M.D. and I disagree on some major points... I can still manage to appreciate and learn from him. I don't need to throw him under the bus bc I differ with him. [I used to learn from J.MacArthur too, but that one did fall under the bus....]
Were you involved with his church personally, bc you sound like your a little bitter? (just my opinion)

..................
here we go again.... all he is saying is you have to get on the bus with the same vision for this church or get off the bus... if you've ever been in a church split.. you'll find it very painful. Better to get them off the bus before they hurt someone. They might be well intentioned individuals who think your teaching the gifts. or Calvinism or infant baptism is so so offensive they have to stand against it. Remember, people have died fighting over both sides of these issues so to have people on board with a different view can hold up the bus....
........
Chris Rosebrough at Pirate Christian Radio has found an audio clip of an October 2007 Acts 29 event of some kind in which Mark Driscoll said:


"I'm all about blessed subtraction. There is a pile of dead bodies under the Mars Hill bus [chuckles] and by God's grace it'll be a mountain by the time we're done. You either get on the bus or get run over by the bus. Those are the two options. But the bus ain't gonna stop. And, uh, I'm just a guy who's like, "Look, we love you. But this is what we're doing."


"There's a few kind of people. There's people who get in the way of the bus. They gotta get run over. There are people who want to take turns driving the bus. They gotta get thrown off, because they want to go somewhere else. ...


... I'm doing it right now. I'm doing it right now. We just took certain guys and rearranged the seats on the bus. Yesterday we fired two elders for the first time in the history of Mars Hill last night. They're off the bus, under the bus. They were off mission so now they're unemployed."

 

[murjahel]

Apparently, you do not read the Bible much...


Hebrews 4:15,16
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Hebrews 2:16-18
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham (human form).
Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to aid / help them that are tempted.


Please don't let God's Word get in the way of what you believe.

Just because He was tempted, does not mean there was any sin in Him since the Bible clearly states He never committed any sin.

much of this depends on the meaning of 'temptation'.... it is like the old saying....

YOU CAN'T KEEP BIRDS
FROM FLYING OVER YOUR HEAD,
BUT YOU CAN KEEP THEM
FROM BUILDING NESTS IN YOUR HAIR...​

Jesus would never have been involved in the temptation of the 'nest in the hair' kind... for that kind of temptation is sinful...

the other kind, we do not control, and we do not accept when it flies by... the sinful kind of temptation was not in the resume of Jesus... He had no, not any, not even the in the mind kind of sin in His life...

 

[Gospel Guy]

much of this depends on the meaning of 'temptation'.... it is like the old saying....

YOU CAN'T KEEP BIRDS
FROM FLYING OVER YOUR HEAD,
BUT YOU CAN KEEP THEM
FROM BUILDING NESTS IN YOUR HAIR...​

Jesus would never have been involved in the temptation of the 'nest in the hair' kind... for that kind of temptation is sinful...

the other kind, we do not control, and we do not accept when it flies by... the sinful kind of temptation was not in the resume of Jesus... He had no, not any, not even the in the mind kind of sin in His life...

The only thing sinful about being tempted is... allowing it to enter in choke God's Word which Jesus did not do because He walked in the Holy Spirit which means He used self control to control Himself at all times.... AND, He did this by casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God (see 2 Corinthians 10:3-5)

Jesus was fully capable of committing sin since He had taken upon Himself the likeness of sinful flesh (Romans 8:3)... but He overcame sin and condemned sin in the flesh.

Jesus had to overcome everything Adam lost so He had to be tempted (Hebrews 4:15,16) and then resist temptation without committing any sin, which He did to overcome all temptation to sin.

Hebrews 4:15,16, and Hebrews 2:16-18 says He WAS tempted just like we are, so this point is fact unless one wants to start discounting scripture.

 

[HannahT]

(Shrugs) Driscoll crashes an event, and then goes to his own to speak about how to 'Act Like Men'.

Okay then. I have issues with both of them (Driscoll/MacArthur), but it seems Driscoll truly needs to realize what 'gentlemen' means.

You can be a 'man' and have manners. His behavior was inappropriate, and he knows it. Teenagers pull this junk....what the heck was he thinking?!

 

[JimB]

Both are important, but contending for the faith is a command and a warning. We have no such command to feed or clothe the world's poor, but do so because we actually do care and to give them the gospel at the same time.

Besides, such a comparison only makes sense if the outcome of this event not happening would have been an additional poor person receiving something, and I don't think a logical connection can be made, as one doesn't require the absence of the other in order to be accomplished.

Personally, I do not consider publicly airing our dirty Christian laundry and squabbling over doctrinal differences what Jude had in mind when he said we should “contend for the faith once delivered to the saints.” This sort of bickering should be carried on in private, without cameras and news reporters, like maybe in an office, or by correspondence, or in a Christian forum like this one. IMO, the world is not interested in what we believe or disagree about doctrinally; all they can see is that we don’t get along and that is reason enough for them to stay away.